Development Facility question

[coreyt]

If i add more trainers will the superstars improve quicker?

[Comradebot]

If i add more trainers will the superstars improve quicker?

 

I don't believe so.

[LoganRodzen]

I don't believe so.

 

Why wouldn't they? If you had a development territory setup as a touring promotion and sent down workers like Phoenix I, II, and III - you'd see quite a difference in match / show grades due to their help with performance. It depends entirely on the situation and how things are setup, but I've been able to get workers to improve faster than usual due to touring promotions (and workers with high performance skills training others).

 

My development promotion (HWA) in Hawaii runs 5 shows a week. Spanish Superfly and all three Phoenix workers are in that promotion training others (all of them still active as of June 2022). My "project" Derek Guida (whose a regeneration of Jim Force) has already wrestled all four of those veterans. In one month time (May to June) I've seen some of his skills have increases ranging from 4 points to 8 points. Psychology went from 18 to 25 in a month (though he's had over 30 matches).

 

I get away with not hurting their physical condition with so many matches by having my development promotion's product different than WCW (a 'watered' down product).

 

But Comrade is correct.. just adding more trainers won't boost your workers stats. It'll just create a cluster of older workers with nothing to do. I make it work by having multiple touring development promotions and lots of older performance-based workers. Having the smaller promotion put on more shows guarantees that your workers are going to get a good amount of ring time.

 

In real life, WWE doesn't sign a worker to a written deal and send them to FCW so that they can participate in a show once a month or once every two months. To simulate worker growth correctly... I firmly believe you need to have touring development promotions with a variation in how many shows they run a week.

[Comradebot]

You know, hadn't even read this post yet but I was thinking about the answer in the shower just now...

 

But if you're "watering it down", aren't workers not developing proper intensity, and thus not being as good as they could be when they're shipped up to WCW?

 

I mean, Intensity as a stat does matter. Look at SWF and RIPW: workers tend to get less intense in RIPW, as they prepare to work in the rather soft SWF environment.

 

Just... I dunno, the more I think about it, the more I think "touring developmental territories for quicker development!" is a poor idea. From what I've seen, workers only develop so much from being in a dev territory. So... either they're getting torn up from wear n' tear by working nonstop to speed up the developmental process a few months, or they're possibly not getting the correct intensiy because the product is watered down to nothingness to prevent wear n' tear from being a major factor.

 

Which, yeah, if they're wrestling talented workers non-stop they'll still develop above what development alone could offer... but still, even at RAW/USPW level intensity you'll see wear n' tear from simply wrestling THAT often.

 

Just my random thoughts on the situation.

[LoganRodzen]

You know, hadn't even read this post yet but I was thinking about the answer in the shower just now...

 

But if you're "watering it down", aren't workers not developing proper intensity, and thus not being as good as they could be when they're shipped up to WCW?

 

I mean, Intensity as a stat does matter. Look at SWF and RIPW: workers tend to get less intense in RIPW, as they prepare to work in the rather soft SWF environment.

 

Just... I dunno, the more I think about it, the more I think "touring developmental territories for quicker development!" is a poor idea. From what I've seen, workers only develop so much from being in a dev territory. So... either they're getting torn up from wear n' tear by working nonstop to speed up the developmental process a few months, or they're possibly not getting the correct intensiy because the product is watered down to nothingness to prevent wear n' tear from being a major factor.

 

Which, yeah, if they're wrestling talented workers non-stop they'll still develop above what development alone could offer... but still, even at RAW/USPW level intensity you'll see wear n' tear from simply wrestling THAT often.

 

Just my random thoughts on the situation.

 

Maybe "watered down" was the wrong term to use. My product in WCW uses a 30/30 percentage for intensity and danger. My development promotions tend to only be 30/20. The intensity stays the same throughout, but the level of danger is decreased to guarantee they stay physically fit. I get your argument, but it simply doesn't fit in my situation.

[ampulator]

I think he means Worker Intensity, not Match Intensity.

[LoganRodzen]

I think he means Worker Intensity, not Match Intensity.

 

I know what he meant. He was saying that my workers wouldn't acquire a high enough Intensity stat with a "watered down" match intensity percentage. But that isn't possible because my primary promotion has the same match intensity as my child promotions.

[Comradebot]

I know what he meant. He was saying that my workers wouldn't acquire a high enough Intensity stat with a "watered down" match intensity percentage. But that isn't possible because my primary promotion has the same match intensity as my child promotions.

 

You're still running folks five times a week at 30% intensity. I know for a fact that, long term, 40% can have quite the noticeable effect for a regular workload in APWF.

 

 

 

And hey, when you say "watered down", I assume lower intensity.

[Greg McNeish]

I'm so very much not an expert on Development, or skill increases, because I a have a nasty habit of not getting long-term into any games, but I recall seeing something previously about Touring promotions having skill development lowered, to put them more on par with non-touring promotions.

[LoganRodzen]

You're still running folks five times a week at 30% intensity. I know for a fact that, long term, 40% can have quite the noticeable effect for a regular workload in APWF.

 

 

 

And hey, when you say "watered down", I assume lower intensity.

 

Very true. I'd need to go through each worker in development individually to find out how many times they're working a week. I'm assuming they don't work the full five shows every week.

[Remianen]

I'm so very much not an expert on Development, or skill increases, because I a have a nasty habit of not getting long-term into any games, but I recall seeing something previously about Touring promotions having skill development lowered, to put them more on par with non-touring promotions.

 

This is true....to a point. However, you can't lower it too much. A worker actually WORKING is expected to develop faster than a worker simply sparring (which is what the passive skill development simulates). Logan is right. Even with the reduction in benefits from touring promotions (this phenomenon was especially prevalent in 08. Touring promotion with 4 or 5 shows a week was hands down the best way to develop workers), it's still better to have workers actively honing their craft in a real environment rather than cutting promos in the mirror or something.

 

And Comradebot, intensity is about as important as toughness in the general scheme of things. I'd happily trade ALL of a worker's intensity for a few points more of basics/psychology/safety/selling/consistency. And that's the key point. When developing workers, most of the time you're looking for things that directly affect their performances in-ring (since entertainment skills are a breeze to boost). I haven't seen anything that would make me value intensity anywhere near the big five (six if you add stamina) or star quality. Sure it has an effect. But from my testing, 3 points of psych or selling beats 30 points of intensity (because selling and psych are universally valued regardless of product type). The reason workers bleed intensity in "powder puff" products is because it's not necessary.

[Comradebot]

This is true....to a point. However, you can't lower it too much. A worker actually WORKING is expected to develop faster than a worker simply sparring (which is what the passive skill development simulates). Logan is right. Even with the reduction in benefits from touring promotions (this phenomenon was especially prevalent in 08. Touring promotion with 4 or 5 shows a week was hands down the best way to develop workers), it's still better to have workers actively honing their craft in a real environment rather than cutting promos in the mirror or something.

 

And Comradebot, intensity is about as important as toughness in the general scheme of things. I'd happily trade ALL of a worker's intensity for a few points more of basics/psychology/safety/selling/consistency. And that's the key point. When developing workers, most of the time you're looking for things that directly affect their performances in-ring (since entertainment skills are a breeze to boost). I haven't seen anything that would make me value intensity anywhere near the big five (six if you add stamina) or star quality. Sure it has an effect. But from my testing, 3 points of psych or selling beats 30 points of intensity (because selling and psych are universally valued regardless of product type). The reason workers bleed intensity in "powder puff" products is because it's not necessary.

 

True... but the fans WILL turn on a guy who isn't intense enough for their product. I've seen it with my on eyes.

 

So... it can become a factor if you have a touring dev company, which you've super wussed out to prevent wear n tear, and then you call them up into an intense company.

 

And this point remains: unless you're down at RAW/USPW level intensity (20% or lower), odds are making your developmental guys wrestle multiple times a week is causing wear n' tear that'll hurt them later in their careers, and simply so they'll develop a few months faster than they would've in a less intense environment. You, Remmy, can get away with it because the career's of female workers tend to be shorter than men's. Who cares if a female wrestler works at a pace that'll leave her a physical wreck by the time she's 40? She'll likely have retired long before then.

 

But when you've got a male wrestler you've been grooming since he was 22... I dunno, I could see myself regretting putting his body through hell for a couple years to speed up his improvement as fast as possible when he turns 40 and I still want to use him regularly.

 

Just... if you're planning to play for just a few years, then sure, why not. But if you plan to play longterm, maybe five or more years, you might end up really regretting the damage. Which, yeah, alot of it comes down to how often you book that guy and what the intensity of YOUR product is.

 

The Minnesota Mauler is, without a doubt, my hardest working wrestler in APWF (40% intensity). Heck, it's probably why I finally pushed the guy after busting his ass so hard in the midcard. He's also worked about 20 matches for the now pretty intense CWB, so that skews the numbers a bit...

 

But after about three and a third years, he's seen his physical condition fall about 8% in every category. Which means in a decade, he's on schedule to lose about 24%. Obviously, he isn't that young so a second decade after that is unlikely... but what if he wasn't so young, and he was still made to work that hard? Lose roughly half of your physical condition by the time you're 40, and that's not even taking into consideration the possibility of injury? Things like shattered elbows or knees, major concussions, or ruptured spleens go from just nasty injuries to career enders. Even a few medium injuries like spinal disalignment put their careers on the brink.

 

And yes, you can start going lighter on a wrestler as he gets older to prevent them from ending up in such a dire position where any one relatively major injury may end their careers, but maybe they wouldn't have to had they not spent a year or two treating their bodies like hell. I, for one, would rather not push a worker up to his maximum potential as fast as possible at the risk his body condition will hurt the quality of his matches drastically or force him into retirement before he hits 40.

 

Just my thoughts on the matter.

[Remianen]

True... but the fans WILL turn on a guy who isn't intense enough for their product. I've seen it with my on eyes.

 

So... it can become a factor if you have a touring dev company, which you've super wussed out to prevent wear n tear, and then you call them up into an intense company.

 

And this point remains: unless you're down at RAW/USPW level intensity (20% or lower), odds are making your developmental guys wrestle multiple times a week is causing wear n' tear that'll hurt them later in their careers, and simply so they'll develop a few months faster than they would've in a less intense environment. You, Remmy, can get away with it because the career's of female workers tend to be shorter than men's. Who cares if a female wrestler works at a pace that'll leave her a physical wreck by the time she's 40? She'll likely have retired long before then.

 

Absolutely true, on all three counts. But the key point is (and your Mauler example is great for that), unless you're planning to push that guy to the top of the card immediately upon debuting in the "bigs", they'll likely have enough time to get that intensity back. But I would agree that it's absolutely the best idea to have the dev promotions mirror (or exceed) the parent promotion's intensity level. Of course, there's a price for doing so but there's also a price for NOT doing so (slower worker progression). But even given my typical worker, even I had to dumb down my preferred product because wear and tear at 40-60% intensity (or more) is ridiculous once you start putting on weekly shows. It gives more value to resilience (the "bounce back" stat) though.

 

Wasn't intensity the culprit in why people like Vin Tanner or Tank Bradley got pooped on in DaVE? I remember in 05 or 07, there were always a couple of workers the fans hated and it took work to get them to the point where they were at least tolerated (if not outright accepted).

 

And honestly, I think the number of people who actually get 20+ years into a single game is a vast minority. So for most folks, for all intents and purposes, this whole point is moot.

[LoganRodzen]

And honestly, I think the number of people who actually get 20+ years into a single game is a vast minority. So for most folks, for all intents and purposes, this whole point is moot.

 

I like being in that minority. I can't lie though... I've never actually played through 20 years of game time. I did 15 years with MAW in TEW08 and I'm 12 and a half years into my WCW game. I'm hoping my WCW game is the one I'll get to 20+ years. Just gotta keep on chuggin' along.

[Gigas]

Ive never seen intensity improve/decrease but Ive never really looked.

 

I wouldnt say its a useless stat though, because depending on your promotion type, a guy with low intensity will get booed by the fans. Put Teddy Powell in a Cult fed and he'll get booed.