Cult Companies Signing Superstars

[Scorpio3060]

I was wondering if anyone else has seen this happen?

 

I just started a new game and I noticed that Jeremy Stones contract expired in Feb 2010. Surprisingly, he resigned a PPV deal with NOTBPW despite them being cult and him having a 93 pop across Canada.

 

Also, 2 days later, Johnny Bloodstone, who I switched to a PPV contract signed with CGC despite a pop of 84.

 

How are these Cult companies signing these guys to contracts?

[Jaysin]

Cult companies can sign written contracts. There has to be special circumstances, but they can.

[Comradebot]

Cult companies can sign written contracts. There has to be special circumstances, but they can.

 

I think the point he's making isn't them signing a written deal, it's them signing someone who is WAY over the typical B-/B cutoff for most workers.

 

I've never been able to replicate it when I'm running the company, but I've seen this before in the 1997 C-Verse mod. There, I've seen HGC re-sign Sam Strong when he's still super-over and they're still just Cult. My first gut instinct would be that Strong has buddies in the company, and that's why... but then again, I see Bruce The Giant leave USPW all the time cause they aren't big enough, and he's friends with the owner (again, Sam Strong).

 

That said, I'm not gonna complain: Cult companies, if they can fork out the bucks, should be completely capable of getting the occaisonal superstar. Shouldn't happen too often, but there are real world examples of this. I'd argue Kurt Angle was well above a B in overness when TNA first signed him. That said, I don't think they've ever really signed anyone else who I'd label as above a B at the time of their signing. (Sting was a B- at BEST, let's be honest).

 

Still, he is the one real world example.

 

And, again, USPW does it in the C-Verse! Bruce The Giant's debut is something a human player can't really replicate, as he was a far bigger name coming into the company than we're capable of getting.

[CamillePunk]

Jeremy Stone is the son of the owner of NOTB, is the trainer for one of their dojos, and is getting up there in years. I don't think it's strange at all for him to re-sign with NOTB.

[The-619]

TNA signed Hulk Hogan, Hogan is an icon and at minimum A in popularity.

[20LEgend]

The two previous poster raise good points but why can't I do this when I'm NOTB or why can't I sign an A popularity worker?

 

I think their has to be something in the game where, because there is no better option for Jeremy Stone, he is not a god out of canada and Canada has no national companies, so the AI and the player should be able to resign him. I'd also say if there is only one global promotion and then the next is cult, should the A popularity or whatever worker hate the owner of the global company, he should sign with the cult regardless of popularity as he would be unemployed and forever out of work. This would be good in RW games where TNA are cult but can really get most people.

[Derek B]

TNA signed Hulk Hogan, Hogan is an icon and at minimum A in popularity.

 

False.

 

Hulk Hogan may be the most recognisable guy in pro wrestling, but his name no longer carries the same weight it once did. If it did then when TNA signed him (and every other former WWE guy) they would have been riding a huge wave of momentum up to the level WCW were at when they did the same thing. That clearly didn't happen. Why?

 

Because being recognised isn't the same as being over. Being over means that people care enough about you to tune in and ultimately pay to see you. In TEW terms Hogan (and Flair, Bischoff, Jeff Hardy, RVD, Kurt Angle, Sting etc) would be lucky to be given a B level of popularity, in some cases perhaps not even a B-. That doesn't mean that fans don't know who some of them are, but it does mean that they aren't the big name draws they once were.

 

Overness/Popularity doesn't equal how many fans recognise your face. It's basically a measure of how much they're willing to pay to see you do what you do.

 

...........

 

As for the main topic... I do find it odd that sometimes a big name will stick with a cult promotion when they wouldn't normally sign with them in TEW terms. I don't know why it sometimes happens and sometimes doesn't... but I gotta figure it comes down to some degree of loyalty along with the usual cult-signing-written-deals rules too.

[20LEgend]

False.

 

Hulk Hogan may be the most recognisable guy in pro wrestling, but his name no longer carries the same weight it once did. If it did then when TNA signed him (and every other former WWE guy) they would have been riding a huge wave of momentum up to the level WCW were at when they did the same thing. That clearly didn't happen. Why?

 

Because being recognised isn't the same as being over. Being over means that people care enough about you to tune in and ultimately pay to see you. In TEW terms Hogan (and Flair, Bischoff, Jeff Hardy, RVD, Kurt Angle, Sting etc) would be lucky to be given a B level of popularity, in some cases perhaps not even a B-. That doesn't mean that fans don't know who some of them are, but it does mean that they aren't the big name draws they once were.

 

Overness/Popularity doesn't equal how many fans recognise your face. It's basically a measure of how much they're willing to pay to see you do what you do.

 

...........

 

As for the main topic... I do find it odd that sometimes a big name will stick with a cult promotion when they wouldn't normally sign with them in TEW terms. I don't know why it sometimes happens and sometimes doesn't... but I gotta figure it comes down to some degree of loyalty along with the usual cult-signing-written-deals rules too.

 

But if Kurt joined WWE would you still say he is, say a, B-? Or would joining WWE automatically make him more over somehow?

[Remianen]

But if Kurt joined WWE would you still say he is, say a, B-? Or would joining WWE automatically make him more over somehow?

 

Immediately upon returning, he'd be a B-. But the E would hype his return so heavily, he'd be in the B+/A range by the time he actually debuted. The same thing occurs in TEW. Fans throughout most of the world would not have seen or heard from Kurt for years. Heck, some fans might not know who he is at all. He would have to be built back up and WWE would do it whereas TNA seems incapable of doing the same consistently.

 

So in a manner of speaking, joining WWE would make him more over but not 'automatically'.

[Boltinho]

But if Kurt joined WWE would you still say he is, say a, B-? Or would joining WWE automatically make him more over somehow?

 

Isnt popularity a measure of how well known someone by the world rather than just by fans?

 

So it could mean "out of 100 people asked on the street how many know who person X is?"

 

If we look at Kurt Angle when he was in the WWE he would have had a big score. Many non-wrestling fans would have seen or heard of him. After all these years of TNA the same survey would rate much lower. Its not a case of asking the same people how big they think he is now.

 

Going back to the earlier Hulk Hogan example; in 1991 my mum knew who the Hulkster was. By the time he signed for TNA he could have walked up to Mrs Boltinho and said "Im the Hulkster" and she would have said "who?"

 

Of course all wrestling fans know who he is and think hes still a big name but actually a great deal of his overness had evaporated.

 

In the c-verse then someones mum still knows who Sam Strong is. Even if she hates wrestling. But shes totally forgotten who Crippler Ray Kingman is even if the average wrestling fan could tell you his life story.

[eayragt]

False.

 

Hulk Hogan may be the most recognisable guy in pro wrestling, but his name no longer carries the same weight it once did. If it did then when TNA signed him (and every other former WWE guy) they would have been riding a huge wave of momentum up to the level WCW were at when they did the same thing. That clearly didn't happen. Why?

 

Because being recognised isn't the same as being over. Being over means that people care enough about you to tune in and ultimately pay to see you. In TEW terms Hogan (and Flair, Bischoff, Jeff Hardy, RVD, Kurt Angle, Sting etc) would be lucky to be given a B level of popularity, in some cases perhaps not even a B-. That doesn't mean that fans don't know who some of them are, but it does mean that they aren't the big name draws they once were.

 

Overness/Popularity doesn't equal how many fans recognise your face. It's basically a measure of how much they're willing to pay to see you do what you do.

 

...........

 

 

Still think Hulk Hogan's an easy A popularity. It's not easy to ride a wave of a non-wrestler (okay, who did wrestle a couple of times back when the shows were... bad).

[Derek B]

But if Kurt joined WWE would you still say he is, say a, B-? Or would joining WWE automatically make him more over somehow?

 

Immediately upon returning, he'd be a B-. But the E would hype his return so heavily, he'd be in the B+/A range by the time he actually debuted. The same thing occurs in TEW. Fans throughout most of the world would not have seen or heard from Kurt for years. Heck, some fans might not know who he is at all. He would have to be built back up and WWE would do it whereas TNA seems incapable of doing the same consistently.

 

So in a manner of speaking, joining WWE would make him more over but not 'automatically'.

 

I think you give more credit to the WWE than is true in terms of how well they can build people to be THAT popular... but otherwise I agree with you entirely. Kurt is less popular/over than he once was, but assuming he could maintain a WWE schedule I'm fairly confident they could get him back up to a B+ level with some real exposure again and some hopefully great matches.

 

Isnt popularity a measure of how well known someone by the world rather than just by fans?

 

So it could mean "out of 100 people asked on the street how many know who person X is?"

 

If we look at Kurt Angle when he was in the WWE he would have had a big score. Many non-wrestling fans would have seen or heard of him. After all these years of TNA the same survey would rate much lower. Its not a case of asking the same people how big they think he is now.

 

Going back to the earlier Hulk Hogan example; in 1991 my mum knew who the Hulkster was. By the time he signed for TNA he could have walked up to Mrs Boltinho and said "Im the Hulkster" and she would have said "who?"

 

Of course all wrestling fans know who he is and think hes still a big name but actually a great deal of his overness had evaporated.

 

In the c-verse then someones mum still knows who Sam Strong is. Even if she hates wrestling. But shes totally forgotten who Crippler Ray Kingman is even if the average wrestling fan could tell you his life story.

 

If it was just out of every 100 people then no-one in modern wrestling would even break a 70, and that's me giving John Cena more props than is likely to be true.

 

..........

 

But the whole subject of popularity needs a revamp anyways, as the current gains/losses in popularity don't make much sense. Popularity should go up based on strong booking and down based on bad booking... or more accurately, it should go up or down based on a combination of momentum and exposure to the public. That way people don't gain/lose insane amounts of popularity for one win/loss and it more accurately reflects the way real life works while still actually being playable and fun. It's my biggest hope for a major change for the next edition of TEW, one I'll pimp out until it actually happens. Check it out HERE, where "Momentum is the Key" is the suggestion in particular I'm referring to.

[eayragt]

But the whole subject of popularity needs a revamp anyways, as the current gains/losses in popularity don't make much sense. Popularity should go up based on strong booking and down based on bad booking... or more accurately, it should go up or down based on a combination of momentum and exposure to the public. That way people don't gain/lose insane amounts of popularity for one win/loss and it more accurately reflects the way real life works while still actually being playable and fun. It's my biggest hope for a major change for the next edition of TEW, one I'll pimp out until it actually happens. Check it out HERE, where "Momentum is the Key" is the suggestion in particular I'm referring to.

 

Is that the suggestion where you sacrifice fun for realism ? I overstate, and although having as much as realistic as possible is a definite plus, there are some things that need to make way for gameplay purposes, and in my opinion popularity changes are one of them? People want to be able to build stars from nothing, even if that person doesn't have much going for them. They want to take this small promotion to the National stage. And they don't want to give up part way through because they're bored slowly getting there. And unfortunately if you're having people gaining popularity more quickly than they should you have to have people losing popularity too quickly to balance it out.

 

Now, I'm not saying some tweaks couldn't work, perhaps around your suggestions. But I, despite loving realism, would be disapointed if things were slowed down too much so grow your own promotion / star were less effective. There is good that would come out of it (it's more realistic to have Jeff Hardy coming into TNA more popular than Samoa Joe, whereas in a TEW game Joe would have probably been at least as popular due to strings of good matches and wins), but disadvantages too - disadvantages that I think would be felt by a lot of people, and therefore a happy medium needs to be reached (which we're not too far away from now).

[Derek B]

Is that the suggestion where you sacrifice fun for realism ? I overstate, and although having as much as realistic as possible is a definite plus, there are some things that need to make way for gameplay purposes, and in my opinion popularity changes are one of them? People want to be able to build stars from nothing, even if that person doesn't have much going for them. They want to take this small promotion to the National stage. And they don't want to give up part way through because they're bored slowly getting there. And unfortunately if you're having people gaining popularity more quickly than they should you have to have people losing popularity too quickly to balance it out.

 

Now, I'm not saying some tweaks couldn't work, perhaps around your suggestions. But I, despite loving realism, would be disapointed if things were slowed down too much so grow your own promotion / star were less effective. There is good that would come out of it (it's more realistic to have Jeff Hardy comingbnainto TNA more popular than Samoa Joe, whereas in a TEW game Joe would have probably been at least as popular due to strings of good matches and wins), but disadvantages too - disadvantages that I think would be felt by a lot of people, and therefore a happy medium needs to be reached (which we're not too far away from now).

 

I would trust Adam to find the right balance... and I'd never suggest that it would lead to taking years to build anyone to the top. Book them on a giant winning streak a la Goldberg or Lesnar and you should still be able to get guys to the main event. But rather than them being there by having 100 popularity, they'd be at the top by having amazing momentum... just now we have performance and popularity as the two main factors for everything. By increasing the importance of momentum and making it the third point of that triangle, it would bring about a balance between product types that simply doesn't exist just now. It would mean changing a bunch of other things too, such as the thresholds for each promotion size, how people are autopushed when momentum is factored in and so much more... but it would overhaul the game significantly and bring about a more intuitive style of booking that goes deeper than "give them wins" and would also bring the game closer to reality... and given that I argue that gameplay is more important than reality every time, you know I've put a lot of thought into it. I just find it hard to put into words becasue the scope covers so much that trying to describe one aspect at a time is really hard to do.

 

I also don't qutie get your example... Jeff Hardy is a much bigger name that more people care about compared to Samoa Joe. But when it comes to mods, I hate that mod makers have to bump up popularity when they try to get a card position right and then need to massively drop them if/when generic midcarder is fired by the WWE... making momentum more important a factor in such things explains why people are higher on the card in the first place, and makes it more natural when people are putting mods together in the first place.

[Remianen]

I think you give more credit to the WWE than is true in terms of how well they can build people to be THAT popular... but otherwise I agree with you entirely. Kurt is less popular/over than he once was, but assuming he could maintain a WWE schedule I'm fairly confident they could get him back up to a B+ level with some real exposure again and some hopefully great matches.

 

It wouldn't require much effort. They'd put him into a high profile program with one of their 'A' level workers (Cena, Taker, Triple H) so he'd be on international television every single week. They'd use all the footage they have of his past matches (many against Cena, Taker, and Triple H as well as the Rock and Austin and everyone else) which would make him relevant again to the casual fan who might not know he's been working since leaving the 'E. They'd make him marketable, and in a hurry, because that's where their money lies. Kurt would still have a decent pricetag so they'd want him to produce dividends as quickly as possible.

[ampulator]

Plus, Kurt's pretty good on the mic as well. It's not that hard to market Kurt Angle. He's a proven commodity.

[Eidenhoek]

He is just a sexy Kurt.

[eayragt]

I also don't qutie get your example... Jeff Hardy is a much bigger name that more people care about compared to Samoa Joe. But when it comes to mods, I hate that mod makers have to bump up popularity when they try to get a card position right and then need to massively drop them if/when generic midcarder is fired by the WWE... making momentum more important a factor in such things explains why people are higher on the card in the first place, and makes it more natural when people are putting mods together in the first place.

 

That was actually my point - Jeff's a way bigger name that Samoa Joe, so bringing him in was a big plus for TNA. However, in TEW you can pretty easily bring someone like Samoa Joe up to Jeff Hardy's level (just on skill set, not on however high mods start his popularity), reducing the impact that a signing like Jeff should have on your promotion. It was actually the bit of my post where I was agreeing with you about change

[djthefunkchris]

Immediately upon returning, he'd be a B-. But the E would hype his return so heavily, he'd be in the B+/A range by the time he actually debuted. The same thing occurs in TEW. Fans throughout most of the world would not have seen or heard from Kurt for years. Heck, some fans might not know who he is at all. He would have to be built back up and WWE would do it whereas TNA seems incapable of doing the same consistently.

 

So in a manner of speaking, joining WWE would make him more over but not 'automatically'.

 

It wouldn't require much effort. They'd put him into a high profile program with one of their 'A' level workers (Cena, Taker, Triple H) so he'd be on international television every single week. They'd use all the footage they have of his past matches (many against Cena, Taker, and Triple H as well as the Rock and Austin and everyone else) which would make him relevant again to the casual fan who might not know he's been working since leaving the 'E. They'd make him marketable, and in a hurry, because that's where their money lies. Kurt would still have a decent pricetag so they'd want him to produce dividends as quickly as possible.

This. /nod to everything Remi said:

 

 

I just think it's a horrible example using TNA though. They don't know how to seperate their cards right. Everyone can't be fighting over the top title.