Advice from you guys who like to develop talent

[crayon]

Okay, so my fantasy mod has a good number of guys who start out relatively young (15-18) and a smattering of workers who should be in a regular wrestler role but also wouldn't be exactly be known for their fighting prowess. The issue is that these characters are relatively popular (by real world standards) and therefore need to be viable options for players to sign and have the chance of developing into decent wrestlers.

 

What I'm wondering is just how low can I reasonably set someone's stats before they become a hopeless case who will never be worthwhile?

 

A few additional questions accompany this:

 

1.

From what I understand low-level improvements are pretty quick, but will they be fighting against a level cap if I set them too low (in other words, is it possible for young workers to go from an E to a B/A in an area over the course of their career, or is there a limit to the potential improvements?)

 

2.

On the other side of things, how high would be too high to set a young (15-18) worker's stats (so that they don't end up with 100 ratings after 10 years or so)? I'm mostly thinking brawling, aerial, technical, entertainment, and performance for this question.

 

3.

How quickly do the physical stats improve, and are they something that should peak relatively early in someone's career?

 

4.

For entertainers, can they get away with a lot less talent than others? And come to think of it, performance skills aside, what are the skills they rely on for decent matches? (it's always been kind of fuzzy to me if popularity, charisma and acting is their bread and butter or if they also need a decent basis in brawling or aerial or something)

 

Hopefully some of you pros can help me with this, since I don't tend to do long term games when I play

[djthefunkchris]

Okay, so my fantasy mod has a good number of guys who start out relatively young (15-18) and a smattering of workers who should be in a regular wrestler role but also wouldn't be exactly be known for their fighting prowess. The issue is that these characters are relatively popular (by real world standards) and therefore need to be viable options for players to sign and have the chance of developing into decent wrestlers.

 

What I'm wondering is just how low can I reasonably set someone's stats before they become a hopeless case who will never be worthwhile?

The invissible Destiny stat randomly sets the max's. I honestly don't think they are ever set to be worthless, I haven't had anyone not become at least a mid-carder if I tried really hard. I could be wrong, and would love to here some input of some of the normal game testers on this (the guys that test for Adam).

 

Using the "Potential" can help you controll this effect.

 

A few additional questions accompany this:

 

1.

From what I understand low-level improvements are pretty quick, but will they be fighting against a level cap if I set them too low (in other words, is it possible for young workers to go from an E to a B/A in an area over the course of their career, or is there a limit to the potential improvements?)

This is really the same question asked differently, isn't it? I advise you again to look at Potential. From the help file:

This refers to how much better a worker is likely to get in terms of in-ring talent. For veterans, this would be set to Random or Very Low, and the game will do the rest.

2.

On the other side of things, how high would be too high to set a young (15-18) worker's stats (so that they don't end up with 100 ratings after 10 years or so)? I'm mostly thinking brawling, aerial, technical, entertainment, and performance for this question.

Again, this isn't really a different question and my answer is the same. You know that doing it your way with high stats at an early age, they will get better. How much better no one really knows for sure, but if you don't want them improving, use the Potential settings. This is what it was made for.

 

3.

How quickly do the physical stats improve, and are they something that should peak relatively early in someone's career?

Physical stats actually set the speed of improvement in other stats.... For example, someone with 100 physical stats will improve alot faster then someone with very low physical stats, in all areas. As far as how fast physical stats build, I have a hard time with them going up very fast. Seems to be a slow build, at least for me.

 

4.

For entertainers, can they get away with a lot less talent than others? And come to think of it, performance skills aside, what are the skills they rely on for decent matches? (it's always been kind of fuzzy to me if popularity, charisma and acting is their bread and butter or if they also need a decent basis in brawling or aerial or something)

 

Hopefully some of you pros can help me with this, since I don't tend to do long term games when I play

 

Entertainer's rely on their entertainment skills, if in a promotion that allows them to use them to their fullest advantage. To put on a good match, you need halfway decent skills, but overall most match's are alot better if you have very popular people doing them. The more "Entertainment" focus on the promotion, the better they will do... but overness effects even promotions that are more focused on in ring skills. Someone with slightly lesser skill but much more popularity can have better match's.... Because over people are what the majority of fans are coming to see, no matter the focus.

 

I'd like to elaborate a little on physical skills, and the importance of psychology. Psychology is one of the most important, if not the most important skill to get over with (gain popularity). When we tested some stuff, myself and other's were shocked to find out the person was right, in that the AI doesn't really improve much in the way of psychology. Derek_B pointed out that alot of that had to do with lower physical skills in generated workers, that makes the learning curve much harder for the worker's in the game world... meaning it holds them back from learning Psychology in a timely manner.

 

I honestly don't like using the "Potential" drop down in the editor when dealing with Real World, or even the default C-Verse database... however, I wouldn't have been upset had it been used in the 1977 data, as we already know "X" will be awesome, and it doesn't hurt to make their chances a little better at becoming the person they are destined to be by using Potential. I just don't like it when it's used in the current time frame.....

 

That being said, I wouldn't mind it in a fictional database that has hero's and villain's and sci-fi monsters, etc. Reason being is if your looking them up, you know their strength levels, and therefore can come up with a method of converting it to TEW stats... The hard part is figuring out at what strength level you want them to start out with/before or after they were injected with steriods to become a super soldier, etc.

 

I mainly want to make the point about Potential being a viable utility in certain scenario's.... There is a difference of playing a mod that has someone starting out as a child or young adult, that becomes a big time hero later down the road... and using Potential to enhance all of ROH's talent.

[crayon]

Thanks for the response djthefunkchris. I was aware of destiny and potential, but wasn't sure if their effects were unrestricted (i.e., being able to take a 0 rated worker to 100 for an exagerated example) or if there was still some limit to what the game would allow. (My redundant questions were in anticipation of the latter being true )

 

A very good point about using potential in a fictional database, although I admit I am still hesitant to use it, somewhat. Its a shame I can't set potential to "anything above bad", or "anything below great", etc. as I like keeping things random within limits, as there are some extreme circumstances that would be good to avoid.

 

The tips you gave me on physicality and psychology are very useful, too. I may need to cast an eye back over some of the talent to make sure they're not a bunch of slobs. I fear that I may have shortchanged some people in the interest of keeping them grounded in the future.

 

If there's any extra advice people want to chime in with, so that my database is future-proofed against rubbish mod making, feel free to speak up

[Teh_Showtime]

Not sure about power and toughness but stamina is the easiest stat to raise in the game. It rises as fast for the AI as it does for me most of the time. Just push the worker to his limit but not over and he should gain stamina

[Ben5]

I feel like I've seen this before, but I can't find it now. What stats match up to what match times as their limit?

[Phantom Stranger]

Worthwhile for what size promotion?

[crayon]

Worthwhile for what size promotion?

 

Good spotting. Let's just say international would be the goal.

 

It was kind of a blanket statement to mean worthwhile in the sense that you could sign them early but be comfortable knowing that with the right management you'd have a decent chance (destiny in their favor, yaddayadda) of turning them into a good worker who won't stink up the ring (all popularity bonuses aside)

[Phantom Stranger]

Good spotting. Let's just say international would be the goal.

 

It was kind of a blanket statement to mean worthwhile in the sense that you could sign them early but be comfortable knowing that with the right management you'd have a decent chance (destiny in their favor, yaddayadda) of turning them into a good worker who won't stink up the ring (all popularity bonuses aside)

 

Stick Gargantuan in dev for a minimum of a year and a half, and if you have trainers like Pistol Pete Hall, Nemesis, Steve Flash and Luis Figo Manico (none of whom are massively difficult for an International company to sign) and you will probably have someone who could compete for, say, the SWF North American title, overness permitting. His matches wouldn't be great, by any means, but they'd be OK, and the angles should make up for it.

 

...My basic rule of thumb, honestly, is that what you need for a worker if you have a dev fed is for them to be 29 or younger and you can get, at minimum, a solid long-run jobber out of them. Some will take a lot longer than others.

 

If you don't have dev, well, it depends how good your midcarders - let's face it, that's who they'll face most - are, and how much time you're willing to throw into it.

[Remianen]

What I'm wondering is just how low can I reasonably set someone's stats before they become a hopeless case who will never be worthwhile?

 

There are actually two sides to this question. First is, how likely someone is to want to spend the time to get that worker to a 'decent' level. For example, if you set a workers pertinent skills (i.e. performance, physical, top line) to 20s, few people are going to want to spend the time (and money, the worker has to be paid after all) to get that worker into the 50s or 60s. That worker might spend 4+ years in development. Given the minimum salary a worker can make on a written ($2,000 a month), that would mean you're paying that worker essentially the same as the openers and lower midcarders (and perhaps some of the midcarders) to essentially go to school. If that worker gets over, they'll be looking for a raise come renewal time so now you're paying them MORE than the aforementioned workers on the main roster, to go to school.

 

The second side of the question is how likely the worker is to be signed by or used by (via independent shows) the AI. If given a choice, even the "stupid" AI will sign the more skilled worker.

 

2.

On the other side of things, how high would be too high to set a young (15-18) worker's stats (so that they don't end up with 100 ratings after 10 years or so)? I'm mostly thinking brawling, aerial, technical, entertainment, and performance for this question.

 

mid 30s to low 40s

 

3.

How quickly do the physical stats improve, and are they something that should peak relatively early in someone's career?

 

The physical stat you want to increase fastest will always be the stat that develops slowest. Murphy's 18th Corollary. Hi Monster Ishimura! I've found that stamina takes longest to develop (at best, 1 point per month on average. More for "shooting stars", less for deadweights). At least among the physical skills that matter (athleticism, toughness). But again, that may be because it's the stat I'm most interested in developing.

 

4.

For entertainers, can they get away with a lot less talent than others? And come to think of it, performance skills aside, what are the skills they rely on for decent matches? (it's always been kind of fuzzy to me if popularity, charisma and acting is their bread and butter or if they also need a decent basis in brawling or aerial or something)

 

Performance skills, charisma, and maybe some chain wrestling and/or brawling. Oftentimes, when an entertainer gets good at a top line area, they switch styles (if it gives them more versatility). More often though, since entertainment skills are easier/faster to build than top line ones, workers will switch to entertainer when their entertainment skills approach their (best) top line ones.

[crayon]

Thanks a bunch for that info Remi. Clears up pretty much everything I'd say