moon_lit_tears Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Runners on 1st and 2nd with less than 2 outs. Ball is hit to shortstop. Runner does not leave 2nd base. If he is tagged out before the fielder tags the base, is the runner on 2nd out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoisonedSuperman Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 <p>Lead runner has the right to the base.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> WAIT.. But I don't know because it could be a force at 3rd so... goood question? LOL</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon_lit_tears Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PoisonedSuperman" data-cite="PoisonedSuperman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="31184" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Lead runner has the right to the base.<p> </p><p> </p><p> WAIT.. But I don't know because it could be a force at 3rd so... goood question? LOL</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If the 3rd base bag is tagged yes the runner on second is out. We are having a disagreement about whether the guy on second is tagged is he out. I personally say he should be, because the guy from first was kinda forced to run to second, but rule if I'm reading it right says the lead runner has the right to the bag, so that would mean he wouldn't have to run, that the guy coming to second would be out.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterded Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 <p>The perosn who didn't leave second base is out. </p><p> </p><p> Rule 7.03 of the MLB offical rules.</p><p> 7.03</p><p> (a) Two runners may not occupy a base, but if, while the ball is alive, two runners are</p><p> touching a base, the following runner shall be out when tagged and the preceding</p><p> runner is entitled to the base, unless Rule 7.03(b) applies.</p><p> </p><p> (b) If a runner is forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner and</p><p> two runners are touching a base to which the following runner is forced, the</p><p> following runner is entitled to the base and the preceding runner shall be out</p><p> when tagged or when a fielder possesses the ball and touches the base to which</p><p> such preceding runner is forced.</p><p> </p><p> I am so bored right now I went and looked it up.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon_lit_tears Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 UGH thank you. This is crazy because now that's not answering the question. Now the question is if the guy standing on second doesn't move and the guy coming from first hasen't goten to second yet, is the guy on second out by being tagged...UGH I'm so confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterded Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="moon_lit_tears" data-cite="moon_lit_tears" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="31184" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>UGH thank you. This is crazy because now that's not answering the question. Now the question is if the guy standing on second doesn't move and the guy coming from first hasen't goten to second yet, is the guy on second out by being tagged...UGH I'm so confused.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> 7.08(e) He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been</p><p> forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. However, if a</p><p> following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner must</p><p> be tagged to be put out. The force is removed as soon as the runner touches the base</p><p> to which he is forced to advance, and if he overslides or overruns the base, the</p><p> runner must be tagged to be put out. However, if the forced runner, after touching</p><p> the next base, retreats for any reason towards the base he had last occupied, the force</p><p> play is reinstated, and he can again be put out if the defense tags the base to which</p><p> he is forced;</p><p> </p><p> The person who didn't leave is out (so is the other person obviously).</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i effin rule Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 <p>I think he would be safe and it would be ruled and Error.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> The play, theoretically, should never happen. If the ball is hit to short with runners at 1st and 2nd, it should be at minimal one out (force out to third or second) but most likely a double play. If the SS forgoes the two potential force outs and instead wants to tag the runner (who technically should be in motion to third as basic fundamentals) standing on 2nd then not only would the man on 2nd be safe, but the SS should be forced out of baseball permanently.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> To masterded's point, the man on first has to go to second (unless the hit to ss means an out). So the SS could sit there with the tag on the man on second until the man coming from first arrives, and as soon as that runner touches the bag the guy previously on 2nd is out.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Now, if the hit to the SS was ruled an out, then neither runner has to advance and a tag wouldn't result in an out.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterded Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Another thing that could happen is it be ruled interference if the umps believe it was done to try and stop a double play (which is about the only way I could see it going). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon_lit_tears Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="i effin rule" data-cite="i effin rule" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="31184" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think he would be safe and it would be ruled and Error.<p> </p><p> </p><p> The play, theoretically, should never happen. If the ball is hit to short with runners at 1st and 2nd, it should be at minimal one out (force out to third or second) but most likely a double play. If the SS forgoes the two potential force outs and instead wants to tag the runner (who technically should be in motion to third as basic fundamentals) standing on 2nd then not only would the man on 2nd be safe, but the SS should be forced out of baseball permanently.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> To masterded's point, the man on first has to go to second (unless the hit to ss means an out). So the SS could sit there with the tag on the man on second until the man coming from first arrives, and as soon as that runner touches the bag the guy previously on 2nd is out.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Now, if the hit to the SS was ruled an out, then neither runner has to advance and a tag wouldn't result in an out.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Apparently this happened at my cousins softball game today.</p><p> </p><p> My brother says the guy on second does not have to run, therefore the guy coming to second would be out.</p><p> </p><p> I think the rule is dumb because it makes no sense to me..<img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTandSilentBob Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 <p>The runners on 2nd and 1st are forced to run. If the ss tagged the man on second while he was on the base he is out. He is being forced to go to 3rd by the runner on first. The ss could then tag the bag and the runner coming from 1st would be out.</p><p> </p><p> However. If the ss tagged 2nd base first the runner coming from first is out and the runner standing on 2nd is no longer forced to go to 3rd, therefore would be safe if tagged.</p><p> </p><p> 5 years of aspiring little league baseball sees lots of situations like these arise.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon_lit_tears Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="JTandSilentBob" data-cite="JTandSilentBob" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="31184" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The runners on 2nd and 1st are forced to run. If the ss tagged the man on second while he was on the base he is out. He is being forced to go to 3rd by the runner on first. The ss could then tag the bag and the runner coming from 1st would be out.<p> </p><p> However. If the ss tagged 2nd base first the runner coming from first is out and the runner standing on 2nd is no longer forced to go to 3rd, therefore would be safe if tagged.</p><p> </p><p> 5 years of aspiring little league baseball sees lots of situations like these arise.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That's what I thought. After digging and sending an email to one of the MLB officials, I'm told the guy on second is not forced to run. Therefore the guy coming to second can be out but the guy on second can not be tagged out. <img alt=":confused:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/confused.png.d4a8e6b6eab0c67698b911fb041c0ed1.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> he can be out by third base being touched though.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russo Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 That's what I thought. After digging and sending an email to one of the MLB officials, I'm told the guy on second is not forced to run. Therefore the guy coming to second can be out but the guy on second can not be tagged out. he can be out by third base being touched though. So there are runners on first and second less than two outs right? Is it a ground ball or pop up? If it is a ground ball the SS can do multiple things if the runner does not run throw it to 3rd, tag the runner himself, or tag 2nd base which would mean the runner on 1st is out. If it is in the air the batter is automatically out and the runners on 1st and 2nd dont have to go it's called the in field fly rule which mean hit in the air the batter is out even if the SS drops the ball this is ONLY with runners on 1st and 2nd or bases loaded and is only enforced with less than 2 outs. I've played for 14 years and ump some now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon_lit_tears Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 So there are runners on first and second less than two outs right? Is it a ground ball or pop up? If it is a ground ball the SS can do multiple things if the runner does not run throw it to 3rd, tag the runner himself, or tag 2nd base which would mean the runner on 1st is out. If it is in the air the batter is automatically out and the runners on 1st and 2nd dont have to go it's called the in field fly rule which mean hit in the air the batter is out even if the SS drops the ball this is ONLY with runners on 1st and 2nd or bases loaded and is only enforced with less than 2 outs. I've played for 14 years and ump some now Was a ground ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLLK Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 <p>Here's another baseball question:</p><p> </p><p> Guy steals second base on a 2-2 count. Ball three. He's on second, then just automatically breaks BACK to first base. Pitcher doesn't throw him out. Everyone just gets ready for the 3-2 pitch like it's normal.</p><p> </p><p> I was in the stands SCREAMING "What the heck's going on???". No one around me knew what happened.</p><p> </p><p> Question: <strong>If you steal a base, are you entitled to stay on that base? Can you go back? Why would you ever go back?</strong></p><p> </p><p> Oh, and this was in a Division I college baseball game I attended Saturday night.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTandSilentBob Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 <p>The runner going back is complete nonsense, unless the umpire called it a no pitch because he wasn't situated when the pitcher started to throw. It's better to finish throwing if you've already started and an umpire calls no pitch than to stop in the middle of your wind up.</p><p> </p><p> In any case if it was ball 3 then the "no pitch" wasn't called that runner was an idiot for going back to 1st and the fielders are idiots for not getting the runner out on the way back to 1st.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="moon_lit_tears" data-cite="moon_lit_tears" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="31184" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Was a ground ball.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I needed to know that.... Because if it was an Auto out for the batter (pop up or something), then the other two not only don't have to run, they have to go back and re-tag the base they just left before they do (if they are already in motion before the out is made).</p><p> </p><p> However, since it was a ground ball, here is how I would call it. IF the player on 1st was based tag out before the player on 2nd (Shortstop tags 2nd base, or throws to 2nd basemen), then the guy on 2nd base does not have to proceed to third base. This is because there is no longer a "Force-Out". This is also why double plays have to be made in order (in this case a triple play could have happened). For example, if the Shortstop threw the ball to third, the 2nd base man would be out. IF the guy catching on third throws to second, before the 1st basemen gets there, he is out, then on to 1st (triple play if you throw fast enough, and everyone catch's and tags base). </p><p> </p><p> The thing is you HAVE to do this in order. IF you throw it to 1st base first (for example), then it's no longer a force out for the other two, they can run back to their perspective bases.</p><p> </p><p> Hope that helps you.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon_lit_tears Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 <p>DJ that's the logic my brother used. HE said the only way the guy on Second could be out is if the ball was thrown to THIRD. It wasn't the SS tried to tag the guy standing on second, NEVER touched the bag, but the guy on second and said he should be out. My brother says the guy on second didn't have to move, that if the second base was tagged the guy coming would have been out. </p><p> </p><p> I don't know it all seems a bit odd to me, as in these are grown men who have been playing for years, and would know better than to get themselves into a situation like this. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbergey_2005 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TheLeviticalLawKid3" data-cite="TheLeviticalLawKid3" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="31184" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Here's another baseball question:<p> </p><p> Guy steals second base on a 2-2 count. Ball three. He's on second, then just automatically breaks BACK to first base. Pitcher doesn't throw him out. Everyone just gets ready for the 3-2 pitch like it's normal.</p><p> </p><p> I was in the stands SCREAMING "What the heck's going on???". No one around me knew what happened.</p><p> </p><p> Question: <strong>If you steal a base, are you entitled to stay on that base? Can you go back? Why would you ever go back?</strong></p><p> </p><p> Oh, and this was in a Division I college baseball game I attended Saturday night.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This must have been a case where the ump or batter called time. I cant think of any scenario where the runner would even mistakenly go back, or go back without get tagged out.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbergey_2005 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="JTandSilentBob" data-cite="JTandSilentBob" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="31184" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The runners on 2nd and 1st are forced to run. If the ss tagged the man on second while he was on the base he is out. He is being forced to go to 3rd by the runner on first. The ss could then tag the bag and the runner coming from 1st would be out.<p> </p><p> However. If the ss tagged 2nd base first the runner coming from first is out and the runner standing on 2nd is no longer forced to go to 3rd, therefore would be safe if tagged.</p><p> </p><p> 5 years of aspiring little league baseball sees lots of situations like these arise.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You know your stuff.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLLK Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jbergey_2005" data-cite="jbergey_2005" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="31184" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This must have been a case where the ump or batter called time. I cant think of any scenario where the runner would even mistakenly go back, or go back without get tagged out.</div></blockquote><p> The first base coach acted like it was normal. That was the weird thing. All of the fans for that team did, too.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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