Trayvon Martin

GhostDogg · March 22, 2012

I dont know if you guys have been watching the news lately, but 3 weeks ago, there was a 17 year old black male in Florida, named Trayvon Martin, who was murdered by a Neighborhood Watch Captian, George Zimmerman.

Zimmerman was told by the police (who he called from his truck) that the boy was suspicious and was instructed to stay in his vehicle. Even though he acknowledge, Zimmerman got out of his car and ran after the teenager.

A few minutes later the 17 year was shot dead, and Zimmerman claims it was "Self Defense", even though Zimmerman was taller than the teenager and he weighed more than 100 pounds than him.

Now what worse than all this, was Zimmerman was NOT arrested for murder, in fact he wasnt charged and he is still free. He still has his weapon! When the police searched Trayvon's body, all they found on him, was ....A BAG OF SKITTLES AND ICE TEA.

As the media released the 911 tapes, they show the boy SCREAMING for help and you can hear the gunshot KILLING the boy. And further more, Trayvon's girlfriend has even came forward and told them that she spoke to Trayvon before Zimmerman stalked him and killed him.

Now I know what yall are thinking, "Ghost why are you writing this? " For those who know me, I am a 34 year old black man with 3 sons and 1 daughter. I dont know the Martin family, but this touches me personally. Because what if it was my son or daughter? I am not trying to being political anything, but I just wanted yall to know about this, if you havent known about this already....

Anthony E. Thomas

aka

"GHOSTDOGG"

bigtplaystew · March 22, 2012

This neighborhood watch captain was wrong and should (and most likely will eventually) have to deal with manslaughter charges.

I feel sorry for this young man's family and loved ones. But your heavily slanted version of the story made it sound like he was gunned down in cold blood for no reason. You left huge chunks of the story out. A big one being the fact that the neighborhood watch captain saying he was being attacked by the kid when it went down, the struggle also heard on that 911 call.

I'm not saying this kid deserved to die. He didn't. His death is a crime and should be treated as such, and given time most likely will. But your post being so slanted is an example of another form of injustice that's going on right in front of our eyes.

The incident should have been handled differently, mainly a criminal investigation should have taken place. That is a sign of gross injustice. However to unfairly paint this man as a cold blooded murderer is also NOT justice, nor is it what happened by any account.

moon_lit_tears · March 22, 2012

This is pretty tragic. I've been following the story. Martin was doing nothing wring, and is dead but this idiot is free.

I'm not sure I like the race war the media is trying to turn it into though. I'm far from a racist. To be honest most of my friends are black males and females. I'm just really sick of the media building it all around race, and the people who turn everything into a race issue. No matter the nationality of this young man he should still be alive and healthy, and the idiot....who thinks he's a hero should be released to the Martin family for punishment.

I'm a firm believer in the eye for N eye legal system!

Hive · March 22, 2012

If your description of the events are accurate, it is indeed terrible. Terrible that a twisted mind acted that way and even worse that the police does nothing about it. But what was the kid doing that made the guy chase and shoot him? That part seems to have been left out of the story.

And are there any indications at all that race was a factor in any of this, or is this just your own interpretation?

bigtplaystew · March 22, 2012

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="moon_lit_tears" data-cite="moon_lit_tears" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33565" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This is pretty tragic. I've been following the story. Martin was doing nothing wring, and is dead but this idiot is free. I'm not sure I like the race war the media is trying to turn it into though. I'm far from a racist. To be honest most of my friends are black males and females. I'm just really sick of the media building it all around race, and the people who turn everything into a race issue. No matter the nationality of this young man he should still be alive and healthy, and the idiot....who thinks he's a hero should be released to the Martin family for punishment. I'm a firm believer in the eye for N eye legal system!</div></blockquote> See, you shouldn't have to say "I'm far from a racist" to precede your point. That is a serious problem to me. It's not your fault, it's us as a society. We can't talk honestly about race without being seen as prejudice. You are pointing out (correctly) that this story is being reported as a racial issue. In some cases very overtly, in others with more subtlety. But the media and special interest groups have turned this into a racial issue and are REALLY pushing that hard, which doesn't really serve this dead kid at all. And it really doesn't make you or anyone else a racist for trying to see that as what it is.

brashleyholland · March 22, 2012

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hive" data-cite="Hive" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33565" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> And are there any indications at all that race was a factor in any of this, or is this just your own interpretation?</div></blockquote> None so far. The media aren't helping mind, they do love a good race war. It's inevitable though with situations like this that certain groups will look to exploit the race issue by taking the "If this was a black dude shooting a white kid he'd be behind bars by now!" stance, before all the facts have come out. The gunman could be a card-carrying Klansman, or he could have a black wife, for all we know.

Hive · March 22, 2012

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33565" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>None so far. The media aren't helping mind, they do love a good race war. It's inevitable though with situations like this that certain groups will look to exploit the race issue by taking the "If this was a black dude shooting a white kid he'd be behind bars by now!" stance, before all the facts have come out. The gunman could be a card-carrying Klansman, or he could have a black wife, for all we know.</div></blockquote> I see. That's kinda what I suspected (and feared). I too, as others have already voiced here, feel that it's a huge shame when tragic stories like these are made even worse by turning it into a racial conflict. @GhostDogg I understand why this story, horrible as it really is, has upset you. But I see nothing in the story, the way it has been presented so far, that should make you and your family feel more threatened and insecure than whites, asians or hispanics (or whatever). Don't take this the wrong way, as I know you're upset, but I wish you had expressed your concerns as an American family instead of as a black family, as it saddens me when both parts of racial matters are oftentimes too quick to jump the "it's us vs. them" bandwaggon.

soxfan93 · March 22, 2012

I'm with Hive on this one. I'm not going to feel worse when a white kid dies than I do when a black kid dies, I'm just going to feel bad that a kid died.

However, the story that I heard on the news was that the kid was acting suspiciously. Until we hear some kind of definition of "suspicious," I'm going to reserve from calling him a racist, etc. It was an unfortunate incident, but for me, that's all it is right now.

brashleyholland · March 22, 2012

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="soxfan93" data-cite="soxfan93" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33565" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> However, the story that I heard on the news was that the kid was acting suspiciously. Until we hear some kind of definition of "suspicious,"...</div></blockquote> <div class="ipsEmbeddedVideo"><div><iframe width="200" height="113" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/9wRg2tqwMMU?start=129&feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" title="Black on a Friday Night"></iframe></div></div>

GhostDogg · March 22, 2012

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33565" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>But your heavily slanted version of the story made it sound like he was gunned down in cold blood for no reason. You left huge chunks of the story out. A big one being the fact that the neighborhood watch captain saying he was being attacked by the kid when it went down, the struggle also heard on that 911 call.</div></blockquote> Actually, its not slanted. You see Treyvon was going to his fathers house, and he was NOT doing anything. In fact he was on the phone with his girlfriend confirming this. Further more, Zimmerman made DOZENS of Phone Calls to the police for no reasons at all, because someone walk down the streets with a hoodie. Now I could see if he wore a hoodie for no reason, but it was raining...I repeat...RAINING!!! How many people would wear a hoodie in the rain? But the part that got me is this. Hes a Neighborhood Watch Captain, but hes not authorized to take the force in his own hands. And when your in the Neighborhood watch, you do just that, ... you WATCH. You dont interfere... and furthermore, the Police told him to stay in his vehicle. But the sad part about this, and I have heard from a few people... He will Probably GET AWAY WITH IT. <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33565" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>But your heavily slanted version of the story made it sound like he was gunned down in cold blood for no reason. You left huge chunks of the story out. A big one being the fact that the neighborhood watch captain saying he was being attacked by the kid when it went down, the struggle also heard on that 911 call.</div></blockquote> The reason why I take this case personally, I mean honestly, I am a black male, and normally this affect me PERSONALLY. I lived in Georgia, and I have had some pretty RACIST moments in my life time. And for the person who said if the roles are reverse, I have actually KNEW a guy who defended himself from burgulars from breaking in his house ... why did they charge him with Assualt...and they found him guilty of it? I am just being real about this. I still love u guys... but sometimes we have to be real about things G

bigtplaystew · March 22, 2012

Well the problem is in a racial discussion/debate, only one side can really "get real" until the other side gets pissed off, then the "racism" words gets thrown around and that's that. Which is why racial debates are probably a little beyond the scope of a board like this.

And when you post a story the way you did, making an accidental death sound like cold blooded murder, that isn't "real" either. It's actually the opposite.

This kid's death is a tragedy. And if there is no further investigation (which is highly unlikely, the police chief is expected to resign shortly and i'm sure whoever comes in after him will re-open the case for political purposes if nothing else) then it'll be an even worse tragedy, but only time can decide that.

Either way, turning this into a racial issue isn't right. When one person commits a crime it shouldn't be an indictment on an entire race of people.

smartman · March 22, 2012

This is the sad state of our news coverage today. I can tell pretty much where each of you got your news on this story. We can't even get the whole truth of the story anymore.

Here's what I've pieced together from 5 different sources.

Martin was walking home on a rainy afternoon with his hood up carrying only skittles and bottled iced tea. He wasn't skulking around. He wasn't anywhere he didn't belong. Again, he was walking towards his HOUSE.

This ridiculously over-protective (numerous neighbors described him as such) Neighborhood Watch Captain decided that someone wearing a hoodie was very suspicious and started tailing him while dialing 911. He reported that a black male was skulking around the neighborhood.

Here is the vitally important part!!!! The dispatcher clearly asked him if he was tailing the person. When told that he was (in his dark SUV btw), the dispatcher TOLD HIM TO STOP! That didn't deter this creep as he continued stalking him finally leaving the SUV and confronting Martin. His girlfriend heard the whole thing on the cell phone. When Martin asked why he was following him, he was met with hostility and his earpiece was knocked off his ear shortly before he was shot dead.

The bottom line is that the guy only had a bloody nose, and Martin was dead on the ground. Zimmerman sounded slightly off on the 911 tapes so of course, they only drug tested the dead black teen not him. He's dead with minimal signs of struggle so obviously his "Stand My Ground law" defense is absurd, but they never even asked him any questions after that cursory post-shooting interview.

I don't know if this was a hate crime though there is a derogatory comment on the 911 tape (an animal reference that is clearly racist that I won't repeat but it is the masked animal found rummaging around trash cans). What is clear is that the cops completely covered it up because of Martin's race. If Martin had been white (Zimmerman is Hispanic fwiw), Zimmerman would have at least been taken to the DA to decide whether to take it to a Grand Jury. He certainly would have been drug tested, and the gun used would have certainly been seized which I've never seen one report that it was.

The bottom line is this Sheriff has lost a Vote of Confidence tonight, and he should never be allowed a badge again as the obvious cover up and dereliction of duty on the scene is unconscionable no matter the race. Also, this is the same Sheriff that last year let a white male get away with beating the holy hell out of a homeless black man in front of what appeared to be at least 10 witnesses. Video was the only thing that brought that to light so one has to wonder if the Sheriff isn't the racist here. It is clear that the Stand Your Ground laws are garbage and need to all be repeal though which I think Florida is going to do because all they are is a license to assassinate someone in cold blood and get away with it as long as you can do it in front of no witnesses.

I'm white as can be, but there are way too many instances each year for me not to know that there is a legit bias in police cases across this country which should be stopped immediately (and will be as soon as a cow jumps over the moon unfortunately). Even intimating that Martin was doing anything wrong in this whole situation is repugnant, but I would expect nothing less than that from Fox News. After all Jeb Bush is the one who signed and pushed for this law in the first place.

Remianen · March 22, 2012

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="GhostDogg" data-cite="GhostDogg" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33565" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The reason why I take this case personally, I mean honestly, I am a black male, and normally this affect me PERSONALLY. I lived in Georgia, and I have had some pretty RACIST moments in my life time. And for the person who said if the roles are reverse, I have actually KNEW a guy who defended himself from burgulars from breaking in his house ... why did they charge him with Assualt...and they found him guilty of it? I am just being real about this.</div></blockquote> Doesn't have to be Georgia. I've had the police called on me when I was looking for a particular address in Scarsdale, NY. I finally had to call my friend and tell her to come out to the curb so I could find the house, after a police cruiser pulled up next to me and asked if they could help me. <img alt=":rolleyes:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="bigtplaystew" data-cite="bigtplaystew" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33565" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Well the problem is in a racial discussion/debate, only one side can really "get real" until the other side gets pissed off, then the "racism" words gets thrown around and that's that. Which is why racial debates are probably a little beyond the scope of a board like this. And when you post a story the way you did, making an accidental death sound like cold blooded murder, that isn't "real" either. It's actually the opposite.</div></blockquote> I have a question. What's 'accidental' about a person being told to stay put and then taking it upon themselves to take the law into their own hands? He harassed and eventually killed a kid for "looking suspicious". What about him looked suspicious? Was it his attire? Was it his mannerisms? Or was it something else altogether? Why, as a neighborhood watch person, do you approach a "suspicious person" with a firearm? What are you expecting to happen? This wasn't an auxiliary police officer, it was a private citizen. I'm not saying this was racially motivated. The facts haven't borne that out. However, you'd have to be extremely naive not to acknowledge the possibility that this kid might've been in the wrong place at the worst of times and that his ethnicity might've been a reason for that. Mark my words, the only way this guy gets charged with a crime of any real consequence (and involuntary manslaughter might as well be simple assault for all intents and purposes. 5-9, out in 22 months is not a just sentence for ending the life of a child) is if the federal government gets involved. Assuming he's ever charged or tried, he'd better get a stiffer sentence than Mike Vick got since personally, as much as I love dogs, I kinda think children are a bit higher on the importance scale. Probably just me though.

bigtplaystew · March 22, 2012

See the issue though is that Zimmerman, the town watch guy, (ironically he's hispanic but 'looks white' according to one news article I read... no joke) is a moron and acted like a scared fool. He SHOULD be dealt with legally and if he never is, that is truly a lapse in justice.

All my point ever was is that the racial nonsense has gotten out of hand. Ghost Dogg, you're a smart dude and an overall excellent poster so I hope you don't take my views on this personally. I'm calling it like I see it, just like you are. But I honestly think you being black has NOTHING to do with this case. I know you've dealt with racial prejudice. But I too have been the victim of a violent crime that was racially motivated. My experiences are just as irrelevant as anyone else's in relation to this case.

moon_lit_tears · March 22, 2012

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="bigtplaystew" data-cite="bigtplaystew" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33565" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>See the issue though is that Zimmerman, the town watch guy, (ironically he's hispanic but 'looks white' according to one news article I read... no joke) is a moron and acted like a scared fool. He SHOULD be dealt with legally and if he never is, that is truly a lapse in justice. All my point ever was is that the racial nonsense has gotten out of hand. Ghost Dogg, you're a smart dude and an overall excellent poster so I hope you don't take my views on this personally. I'm calling it like I see it, just like you are. But I honestly think you being black has NOTHING to do with this case. I know you've dealt with racial prejudice. But I too have been the victim of a violent crime that was racially motivated. My experiences are just as irrelevant as anyone else's in relation to this case.</div></blockquote> Agreed, the race issue is lame, in my opinion is a cop out for the truth. It's a way for people to be pissed off, and others to make a lot of money. Just wish it was about facts, but this will turn into something far beyond the point of anything being done. If the cops do nothing with to the killer, it's an injustice against the black community, if they do something it's an injustice against Hispanics. Sadly that's what the result will be, not that the guy should be locked up for what he did.

BurningHamster · March 22, 2012

God I dislike the world, particularly America. Race always seems to be a bigger issue than what is right and what is wrong.

Hive · March 22, 2012

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33565" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>God I dislike the world, particularly America. Race always seems to be a bigger issue than what is right and what is wrong.</div></blockquote> Amen to that.

moon_lit_tears · March 22, 2012

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33565" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>God I dislike the world, particularly America. Race always seems to be a bigger issue than what is right and what is wrong.</div></blockquote> See this is both true and false. While race seems to creep up into everything, it's not just here. Though I guess it stands out more because America seems to be the more diverse part of the world, but each country fights its share of race battles. Though I do agree with the hating America part......<img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

BurningHamster · March 22, 2012

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="moon_lit_tears" data-cite="moon_lit_tears" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33565" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>See this is both true and false. While race seems to creep up into everything, it's not just here. Though I guess it stands out more because America seems to be the more diverse part of the world, but each country fights its share of race battles. Though I do agree with the hating America part......<img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote> Not to get into a huge discussion about it because I am not interested in anyone's opinions other than my own <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> but I think race is a bigger issue in America than other places. And not just because of diversity, every western country is pretty much a melting pot these days ... or at least trying very hard to be. As an outside observer, it seems like whenever there is big news in the US, if there is a race angle (particularly involving black people, I honestly don't hear too much about other races in the US.) race comes first and details get lost in the shuffle. I don't hate America and usually defend the US when I hear others badmouthing it here (because, knocking Americans is one of the few socially acceptable pastimes for people who want to display prejudice without actually being called a bigot) but I wish the country as a whole, like most of the world, would shut up once in a while and take the time to think. If a country can find the time to invent roughly a billion different products to make you fat, it can find the time to figure out a simple thing like justice without losing sight of the facts just because people come in different colours.

LoNdOn · March 22, 2012

In the UK we have an evolutionary type of discrimination. The class system.

To quote Reginald D. Hunter: "Class issues is basically a way for people to discriminate against other people who look like you!"

moon_lit_tears · March 22, 2012

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33565" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Not to get into a huge discussion about it because I am not interested in anyone's opinions other than my own <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> but I think race is a bigger issue in America than other places. And not just because of diversity, every western country is pretty much a melting pot these days ... or at least trying very hard to be. As an outside observer, it seems like whenever there is big news in the US, if there is a race angle (particularly involving black people, I honestly don't hear too much about other races in the US.) race comes first and details get lost in the shuffle. I don't hate America and usually defend the US when I hear others badmouthing it here (because, knocking Americans is one of the few socially acceptable pastimes for people who want to display prejudice without actually being called a bigot) but I wish the country as a whole, like most of the world, would shut up once in a while and take the time to think. If a country can find the time to invent roughly a billion different products to make you fat, it can find the time to figure out a simple thing like justice without losing sight of the facts just because people come in different colours.</div></blockquote> It sucks for those of us who could care less about someone's race. I'm all for equality, blah blah blah. I guess I'm odd. I don't care about looks, money, social standings. It's all about personality for me. I really dislike the way the world is so pro-hate.

GhostDogg · March 22, 2012

Ok.

So I have read some of your guys comments, and I agree, its a tragedy to the point that the kid got killed, however there is a couple things I have a problem "Digesting"

1. He was told by the Authorities to stay in his vehicle. If he would have done that, Martin would be alive.

2. Martin was a victim of Racial Profiling. I mean lets see, he was black teen, with a hoodie, on a phone. I mean if that means criminal intent, I WOULD BE ARRESTED EVERYDAY...because I live in Colorado and wear a hoodie. (except I am not a teen).

3. Today (or yesterday) they have just found out that he said a "racial slur" on the tape.

and 4th. Self Defense... from what? The Guy was taller and had AT LEAST 100 pounds on the kid.

Now I agree, I think racism sucks, I mean I have been to Iraq, and I have fought with my brothers in arms; they were black, white, asian, indian, latin, european, and any other race you think of. I have seen my brothers get shot, injured and even died. It just sad....

lazorbeak · March 22, 2012

Okay, I understand that some of the people commenting aren't from the US or aren't familiar with this, so in summary:

The reason this is being turned into a "race" issue is that a teen was shot and killed for "looking suspicious," which is pretty nebulous, and the police in an area with a history of racism did not even arrest the man. The reason that's a "race" issue is that people are trying to figure out why this obvious injustice happened, and race seems like a litely answer. Even in the most clear-cut case of property protection (which is less fuzzy than self defense), standard procedure would involve arresting the person who shot and killed another human being and at least talking to him long enough to see whether the state thinks it has a good reason to press charges. But to say race has "nothing" to do with this case or that you personally aren't a racist doesn't mitigate the reason that this smells like an issue of one person's race causing his death and then causing an undue delay in justice. If a white teenager were killed in a situation like this, no matter their social background, does anyone really think the police would just sort of shrug and let the guy go back to his over-zealous neighborhood watch-ing? Can you guys even imagine a scenario where a white teen is confronted and gunned down for "looking suspicious" while talking on the phone in the first place? I mean I walked all the time as a teenager and probably looked pretty suspicious dozens of times, and I have literally never, ever, had police/neighbors/anyone approach me, so Remi's story about being asked if he needed any help sounds like something out of the 1970's to me.

And finally, bigplaystew, I'm not sure what you think "manslaughter" is, but you seem to take offense to the characterization of Zimmerman as a "cold-blooded murderer." But even if you believe 100% of Z's side of the story, he followed someone, thought they were being suspicious, got out of his car with a loaded weapon, and after a struggle, shot him. He wasn't in a frenzy or unable to control himself and it's not an accident that he got out of his car with a loaded weapon. That still sounds like murder to me, even if he did have a defense.

Seriously, murder is an "unlawful killing of a human by another human with malice aforethought." Malice meaning either intent to kill, intent to seriously harm, reckless indifference to human life, or intent to commit a felony. Even if Zimmerman didn't get out of his car intending to kill anyone, he followed and confronted a person (while armed) after he was explicitly told not to. To me that sounds like second degree murder at best.

Linsolv · March 22, 2012

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="bigtplaystew" data-cite="bigtplaystew" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33565" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This neighborhood watch captain was wrong and should (and most likely will eventually) have to deal with manslaughter charges. I feel sorry for this young man's family and loved ones. But your heavily slanted version of the story made it sound like he was gunned down in cold blood for no reason. You left huge chunks of the story out. A big one being the fact that the neighborhood watch captain saying he was being attacked by the kid when it went down, the struggle also heard on that 911 call. I'm not saying this kid deserved to die. He didn't. His death is a crime and should be treated as such, and given time most likely will. But your post being so slanted is an example of another form of injustice that's going on right in front of our eyes. The incident should have been handled differently, mainly a criminal investigation should have taken place. That is a sign of gross injustice. However to unfairly paint this man as a cold blooded murderer is also NOT justice, nor is it what happened by any account.</div></blockquote> I was GOING to say, "Nobody in their right mind would defend the Neighborhood Watch fellow," but... then someone did. It was weird. <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33565" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Seriously, murder is an "unlawful killing of a human by another human with malice aforethought." Malice meaning either intent to kill, intent to seriously harm, reckless indifference to human life, or intent to commit a felony. Even if Zimmerman didn't get out of his car intending to kill anyone, he followed and confronted a person (while armed) after he was explicitly told not to. To me that sounds like second degree murder at best.</div></blockquote> There's your case. If you take his story along with the facts we actually know, he took his gun with him knowing full well he might need to use it, in direct violation of orders given by emergency operators. That sounds to me like reckless indifference to whether or not you're going to take a human life.

BurningHamster · March 22, 2012

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33565" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Okay, I understand that some of the people commenting aren't from the US or aren't familiar with this, so in summary: The reason this is being turned into a "race" issue is that a teen was shot and killed for "looking suspicious," which is pretty nebulous, and the police in an area with a history of racism did not even arrest the man. </div></blockquote> Was anything Mr. Martin was doing actually suspicious or be reason for someone to act in self defence? If not, Zimmerman should not have shot anyone. If he was up to something suspicious, then it seems like the sort of thing which needs further investigation to establish what actually happened. Either way, it sounds like things have not been handled properly. Not once do I need to look at race or go into anecdotal evidence of racism or look at history or whatever. Whether race played any part in the motivations of anyone involved or not, the facts alone say something not quite right is going on.

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