redwalrus Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 I have been thinking about making renders. Has anyone used Poser 9 program or earlier version? Is it easy to learn or is there a steep learning curve? I must admit Daz 4 frustrates me.
djthefunkchris Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 I have been thinking about making renders. Has anyone used Poser 9 program or earlier version? Is it easy to learn or is there a steep learning curve? I must admit Daz 4 frustrates me. I find it somewhat easier, and in some ways better then DAZ, but... DAZ has the upper hand because of the program being built with DAZ Models in mind, with their newest character, which you can make male/female/baby/adult/and I think any other humanoid character you can think of.... if you buy all the extras for it. Also, the "weighted" character poses are much more realistic looking, as you don't get the crazy creases and such that you would without it. They have worked on this for Poser as well, but DAZ Studio 4 is built to work with their characters.... which means your going to get the most out of DAZ models with DAZ Studio 4. No matter which one you get, there is a learning curve, and to be honest Poser is expensive.... where DAZ is free. So, there is that as well. Most render art here is done with DAZ Models, no matter which program people use. Personally, I use Poser. The reason being mainly because there are python scr ypts I have that help me find all the stuff I have on my hard drives over the years (scattered everywhere, in different folders and drives). If I were starting out, I probably would use DAZ, but DAZ studio didn't exist when I started.... and their first efforts weren't on par with Poser. Now... they are pretty good. For posing DAZ Models, and rendering, they are awesome. They even have some pretty interesting Animation Blocks... IF I weren't so lazy, just reading everything I just posted would make me want to learn, and add (per folder) all my content into it (I do have it, opened it a couple of times as well:)). For me though, I'm just going to keep using Poser til' it doesn't compete (which after changing hands so often, I don't expect it to be able to in a few years, plus DAZ seemingly purposely making content that doesn't work as well in Poser). My only "real" gripe with DAZ, is what I just said though. DAZ first started making characters (Vickie/Michael/Stephanie/etc.) for use with Poser and other like minded programs. With their newest creation, I can "see their future", which is to force people into using their program's for their models, and the cost of their program is destined to go up as their models become almost impossible to use with Poser. Their character models are "awesome" in comparison (to poser and most others), although not as realistic physically (legs longer then normal human legs, etc) as other models (poser models for example). Creatively though, DAZ models are above the rest, and you can easily shorten legs and such to make them more realistic. There is going to come a time when DAZ Studio is the only program that will work well enough to use their characters in, so eventually I'm going that route if I'm still into it at all.
Blackman Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 DAZ Studio is free for the moment, and really not that hard to use once you've taken a basic tutorial. It all just comes down to posing and 'clothing' the models. In this context it's really not much trouble on male wrestlers/MMA guys as they just require tights. You just need some time to properly do everything. Never used poser but I'm under the impression that most people actually use that program. They have a couple of feats that Daz doesn't have but it's limited.
djthefunkchris Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 DAZ Studio is free for the moment, and really not that hard to use once you've taken a basic tutorial. It all just comes down to posing and 'clothing' the models. In this context it's really not much trouble on male wrestlers/MMA guys as they just require tights. You just need some time to properly do everything. Never used poser but I'm under the impression that most people actually use that program. They have a couple of feats that Daz doesn't have but it's limited. Don't get me wrong, after I debate the bolded in the quote by Blackman, I still would direct anyone new to DAZ Studio, because there is enough content out there (free content) for it, and that it's still free. Good way to start out. However: DAZ isn't very customer friendly when you're having problems, sometimes no one's even at the phone for customer service. Getting refunds, etc... all slow process's when dealing with them as a customer. They have the best stuff though. The reason I bolded in that quote, is because Daz Studio is great with Daz content/stuff created specifically for Daz. Poser on the other hand, handles content from many different platforms better then Daz does. Poser python can be written by users', giving the program even more options and variation (even though I don't write python scrypt myself, the amount of "free" or somewhat cheap scripts available are outstanding), and there is even a free python script to weight map Vicky4 (Daz Model). IMO, Poser is by far more well rounded then Daz Studio, if your going to compare their latest versions. Even rendering can be faster in Poser, using identical (as close as possible to) settings. The reason I suggest DAZ Studio to be the way to go, is because almost everyone uses their content, so there is no need to be as good as Poser. Their models continue to win awards, and are used commercially everywhere you see 3d models. They have everything anyone starting out needs, and they have the most versatile model in their Genesis figure. Plain and simple, their program works great with their toys, so why pay (up to $500.00) for something else, when you will probably only use Daz models anyways. I started with Poser, and will probably continue to support it as long as they (once in a while) continue to have upgrades worth getting. Poser pro 2012, was actually a good upgrade, with a good amount of new features, but more importantly upgrades to features they already had. The support for 64bit also helped:). However, I hardly use all these features, so I would never recommend Poser over Daz Studio (emphasize "FREE"), when Daz studio does everything I do in Poser anyways.
Blackman Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 Indeed. Unless you are actually a 'Pro' - in the basic sense of the word, that it's your profession - you don't need most of the features both programs offer. If you're just rendering for these games like most here, you're good to go with just minor knowledge: knowing how lightning works and the types of textures, how you adjust the clothing etc. You don't even have to know math or anything.
djthefunkchris Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 Indeed. Unless you are actually a 'Pro' - in the basic sense of the word, that it's your profession - you don't need most of the features both programs offer. If you're just rendering for these games like most here, you're good to go with just minor knowledge: knowing how lightning works and the types of textures, how you adjust the clothing etc. You don't even have to know math or anything. /nod... As with people going back to Daz 3 after trying Daz 4.5, it's almost all about familiarity for me, at this point. If I'm going to be at all honest, that is the number one reason why I use Poser, even with all the tutorials out there on DAZ, I learned Poser when it was Poser 4, I think before the first Daz Model was even made. I had Poser 5, Poser 7, Poser Pro 2010, and now Poser Pro 2012, missing several versions in between, and some of the listed above, I only used as trial, as they weren't a "good enough" upgrade (An example is Poser Pro 2010, not as stable as the 2012 version). With Poser, I would venture to say that you could go from Poser 4 to their newest and not be lost, which is saying something. All the new windows since then, you would have to learn, but you could easily do what you did with Poser 4, with their newest edition, because everything has stayed pretty much in the same area, or buttons are so identical (new colors, better layout, but basically still the same), that you wouldn't be lost at all. You might not understand the bones room, or be able to grow hair, and other windows, but all the basics that were in Poser 4 are still there (except the old rendering method used in Poser 4, which seems to have completely disappeared in their latest edition). With all the new editions though, I don't miss it anymore.
redwalrus Posted March 27, 2013 Author Posted March 27, 2013 thanks for all the info. After two tries I finally got the Poser demo to work. I wasn't keen on the giving up my credit card numbers for it though. I am still working on it but with poser I'm having a better time with it than Daz. If it wasn't for the good things djthefunkchris said about it I probably would not have kept on trying to get the poser started. I did see that amazon has it on sale for $55. I might just go ahead and order in a few days. That is assuming I get just a little bit better at Poser 9. I can already pose the guy pretty good. I just haven't figured out how to dress him and attach props since the demo doesn't come with that stuff. update: After playing around with Poser I went back to Daz studio. I am finding Daz easier to work with since using the Poser. I am not sure what to get.
djthefunkchris Posted March 28, 2013 Posted March 28, 2013 thanks for all the info. After two tries I finally got the Poser demo to work. I wasn't keen on the giving up my credit card numbers for it though. I am still working on it but with poser I'm having a better time with it than Daz. If it wasn't for the good things djthefunkchris said about it I probably would not have kept on trying to get the poser started. I did see that amazon has it on sale for $55. I might just go ahead and order in a few days. That is assuming I get just a little bit better at Poser 9. I can already pose the guy pretty good. I just haven't figured out how to dress him and attach props since the demo doesn't come with that stuff. update: After playing around with Poser I went back to Daz studio. I am finding Daz easier to work with since using the Poser. I am not sure what to get. Get the free one.... but... Are you saying that Poser 9 is only 55$ on Amazon (going to hit myself in the head if it's true)? You might want to go ahead and get Poser "just in case", as you might run across some things that only work right in Poser (there are a ton of effects in poser that DAZ doesn't support yet). However, definitely, starting out, learn DAZ. I wish I would have gone that route, but they were so far behind Poser when it first come out that I couldn't use half my stuff at the time. However, DAZ is going to be around I think, for a long time... and they promote other products. For example, if you ever get into faceshop, you can use it right in the program. They are going to be the wave of the future IMO, because their models are the most popular. I can't stress enough my own frustration that I'm too lazy to learn DAZ.... I always get it when it's free though. The reason is simple... I want to learn it someday, and I'm no different then anyone else when it comes to their models, in that I like their's more then anyone elses. When I'm trying to make a realistic model, the only real need is to shorten their legs, and perhaps give them bigger heads (at least Vickie). Finally, if nothing else I said makes you want to learn DAZ, here is one more thing. With DAZ Models being the wave of the foreseeable future, only DAZ Studio will give you the most out of them. Poser has similar effects, but are more generalized, and not specialized for DAZ models, but generalized for just about all models... The problem is that DAZ Models are more popular then all other models put combined. The face room might entice you with Poser, but realize that the face room only works with their models, which are far inferior compared to DAZ models. You can certainly get realistic looks out of them, but your limited with built in morphs... Fact is, I can't help but to think that the best efforts for morphs in Poser was for the Poser 4 character models which was like.... I don't know, over 13 years ago and several different companies ago. I can't even recall what the original name of the company was that started making Poser in the first place. Smith Micro is so far the coolest, but who knows how long before they pass it on to someone else as well.
redwalrus Posted April 7, 2013 Author Posted April 7, 2013 I decided to go with Daz but for a "free" product it sure it expensive to get started. After a week of focusing in on learning it I got the basics down. Yes Poser 9 is at Amazon. here is the link for anyone interested: http://www.amazon.com/Smith-Micro-Software-Inc-PSR9HDVD/dp/B005LXIJ7M/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=1412AOFNYG9K2&coliid=I36571PBBL0HT8
Clarity Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 If you are still interested in creating characters for TEW, WMMA, CBH etc then another place to check out are these links. CBH Render Thread TEW 2013 Render Thread C-Verse Re-Render Thread These links are where the latest generation of renderers post up their work and will hopefully point you in the right direction or give you hints. People like JLant, MJStark and i_effin_rule are possibly some of the best guys to probe for help as they have been around for a while and are still pretty active in the forums. You have the older generation of JSilver, Sebsplex, Blasphemywebleed, Trell, Undertaker666 and myself who don't post up all that often anymore but can still help. I think JSilver and Sebsplex use Poser though if you decide to go down that route. External to here another good site to check out is Renderosity.com which has a freebie section that is a massive help when your starting out. Final bit of advice is to keep plugging at it. My first results looked terrible (see below) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/adambn/Render%202nd/panix2.pnghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/adambn/Render%202nd/merry.png But i took the time to learn how to tweak the faces, adjust the lighting and change the shine of the skin. I picked up freebies, asked how others did lighting (switch to Deep Shadow Map) and improved (hopefully. i think so anyway) http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz173/GDSRenders/CVFP_WhiteMale_097.jpghttp://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz173/GDSRenders/CVFP_WhiteMale_098.jpg It could take you places. Blasphemywebleed and Undertaker666 both were asked to help in the creation of TEW10 and WMMA, and im now a freelance artist
redwalrus Posted April 15, 2013 Author Posted April 15, 2013 Thanks Clarity, I am looking at the mid threads all the time. The renders here have inspired me to want to give it a try. I am starting to get the basics down. Right now I am focusing on how to do lightning. It has been fun, even though I have yet to complete a picture. Maybe someday a few of my renders might end up on the mod pages.
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