[RELEASE] Territory Daze

[dvdWarrior]

This mod looks pretty incredible... almost exactly the sort of real world mod I've been hoping for, honestly. Sadly, I won't be able to mess around with it myself, till after the first of the year when I get a new computer, but the set-up is almost picture perfect for something I've really been hoping to do with TEW for a LONG time now.

 

Oh, and thanks for mentioning that wrestling data website as well. I never even knew such a place existed, and now it's one of my favorite sites. I've been planning out my own TEW database forever and a day, and a site like that will certainly come in handy.

 

[mrwhippy]

How do I actually download this?

 

The pictures are just links for me so when I click them it just brings up the picture in a new tab without a download click link.

[Mammoth]

I noticed a lot of wrestlers like Flair, Piper, Buddy Rose, Ken Patera, Randy Savage, Bill Dundee, Jackie Fargo, etc are set as Entertainers. I think the Entertainer label would be more like Jesse Ventura or someone like that. The others are Regular Wrestlers (and Fargo is probably more Brawler).

Yeah, "Entertainer" is pretty much by go-to style if that's what I most often associate them with, even if they're pretty talented in-ring performers. Like I associate Flair with his strutting, Piper with his voice and controversy, Buddy Rose with his "Playboy" days etcetera. Worker styles are in no way set in stone though, so I'll have a look through some of the names you mentioned and move some things around.

 

Okay, I tinkered with it last night, and here are a few things that need to be fixed.

 

1. The big one is somehow CWF's TV deal is screwy. They have a deal with a Mid-Atlantic (only) TV station and a deal with a Canadian (all) TV station. I don't know if they're right, but you notice that any coverage in the South East is missing which can't be right.

Yeah, they had a small showing in the Mid-Atlantic region with WRET-TV and as I understand it, they had a weekly Saturday night broadcast in the South East which was obviously very popular. I can't recall anything in Canada though, so that's probably a mistake on my part.

 

EDIT: I figured out what the problem was, their deal with CHAN-TV is meant to be with WJXT but I'd obviously clicked the wrong network in the drop down box. Having done a little more research since though, I'm not sure if that's correct because according to Gordon Solie's book, they had a deal with WFLA-TV at some point and I can't seem to find what information I found on WJXT. I'll do a little more research and try to sort it for the next update, but for now changing CHAN-TV to WJXT should give you the South East showings you need.

 

2. You missed Verne Gagne and Nick Bockwinkel when upping Selling. Honestly, Nick isn't very good at all in the game, and I'd never hire him as he is right now (even with the bump in Selling I gave him, remember it is 66+ or they get dinged every single match). Seems really, really odd to say that when I'm running AWA.

No, Verne is purposefully at C- as it this point in his career as from what everyone said about him during this time period, he really wasn't that big into selling. He was, I think, in the E range before, so it's definitely an improvement. xD I'm really surprised you think that about Nick Bockwinkel because there are plenty of people in the database who don't have a single C to their name, but Nick has over ten statistics at a C or higher; some of which are in some invaluable areas. I certainly think you could turn him into a Main Eventer in almost any territory. Anyway, I don't think I missed Nick, but he is still potentially low on the selling statistics, yes.

 

3. The Dory/NWA Title thing has already been mentioned. I think the belt is what needs to be changed. It is set to Light Heavyweight meaning no Middleweight can ever carry it. Ric Flair is not amused.

Yeah, that's what I've already done, ready for future updates. I just wanted to give people all the ways they could fix this issue so they could therefore start playing.

 

4. I couldn't find an EMLL logo in the pic pack. And it feels very fitting, but it is a little hard to keep straight in my head that every 3rd US fed is Big Time Wrestling, including the PCAC logo. Again, it is all correct just hard to get my head around. I can imagine someone flying from Dallas to San Francisco and getting confused.

I should have known I'd miss one. xD

 

http://i.imgur.com/QcgXqlS.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/CQZqyES.jpg

 

This mod looks pretty incredible... almost exactly the sort of real world mod I've been hoping for, honestly. Sadly, I won't be able to mess around with it myself, till after the first of the year when I get a new computer, but the set-up is almost picture perfect for something I've really been hoping to do with TEW for a LONG time now.

 

Oh, and thanks for mentioning that wrestling data website as well. I never even knew such a place existed, and now it's one of my favorite sites. I've been planning out my own TEW database forever and a day, and a site like that will certainly come in handy.

 

You're very welcome, on both accounts. I hope you enjoy it whenever you get the chance to play. And I like to give credit where credits due and wrestlingdata was truthfully a lifesaver.

 

How do I actually download this?

 

The pictures are just links for me so when I click them it just brings up the picture in a new tab without a download click link.

Really? I don't know why that would be. Here are some direct links:

 

Pictures: http://www.mediafire.com/download/cuk16tdfsbbg89v/Territory+Daze+%28Pictures%29.zip

Database: http://www.mediafire.com/download/yu54cgm9adx405o/Territory+Daze+%28Database%29.zip

[shipshirt]

Just looking at some of the locations, I think for the Greensboro Coliseum you have the modern seating capacity of 23000. Back in the 70's it was much less. I think it was somewhere around 16,000.

 

From the Coliseum website: November 24, 1983 – A sold-out crowd Coliseum crowd of 15,419 watches “good guy” Ric Flair beat Harley Race during Starrcade, the first wrestling event ever shown on closed-circuit TV.

 

Speaking of Greensboro, I think the prestige and popularity for Jim Crockett Promotions is too high. At this point in history it was still a relatively small promotion known for tag teams. It doesn't really start to take off until George Scott shows up (around 1973) and starts booking Johnny Valentine, Wahoo McDaniels and shifting the focus.

[Mammoth]

Just looking at some of the locations, I think for the Greensboro Coliseum you have the modern seating capacity of 23000. Back in the 70's it was much less. I think it was somewhere around 16,000.

 

From the Coliseum website: November 24, 1983 – A sold-out crowd Coliseum crowd of 15,419 watches “good guy” Ric Flair beat Harley Race during Starrcade, the first wrestling event ever shown on closed-circuit TV.

 

Speaking of Greensboro, I think the prestige and popularity for Jim Crockett Promotions is too high. At this point in history it was still a relatively small promotion known for tag teams. It doesn't really start to take off until George Scott shows up (around 1973) and starts booking Johnny Valentine, Wahoo McDaniels and shifting the focus.

Thank you for that information, finding current seating capacities was easy but trying to work out what they were in 1970 proved far more difficult so any information like this is priceless.

 

You'd be surprised by JCP actually, although they were heavily into tag team action, it didn't hurt their popularity and certainly not their prestige. Unlike some of the other promotions who's popularity spread into two or three regions (in TEW terms at least,) JCP only has popularity in the Mid Atlantic and there is no doubt that they were huge in that region, so I see no reason to lower it. Just look at their alumni to see who has already appeared in that territory; just because they were sometimes thrust into tag teams doesn't mean that they weren't stars.

[hammerglenn]

awesome, can't wait to have some free time to try it out.

[Mattywood]

The only downside with locations in regards to capacity is that the capacity cannot be edited in-game with the in-game editor, only in the main editor before starting up a game save. :-/

[smartman]

Those Performance Row skills don't strike me as one of the Top 5 wrestlers of the 70's (68/73/67/68/61) and at age 35, I doubt any of them are going to go up. Hell, Bill Watts is better than that at age 30, and I didn't realize he was a top wrestler. That's barely able to call in the ring at Cult, which as long as they keep their TV deal, they'll easily reach.

 

There just isn't a great list of keystone wrestlers to build around. Under 40 wrestlers that are sorted (with Fog off) as Great in-ring workers that are US people (so no Inoki or Baba or the Mexicans) is this.

 

Dory Funk Jr (28yrs)--working everywhere and a booker

Boris Malenko (36yrs)--way better than Bockwinkel btw and 1 year older, though 63 SQ hurts (and that's fine btw)

Eddie Graham (39yrs)--64 selling means he's out and soon to own CWF+booking right now

Gorilla Monsoon (32)--63 selling and loyal to WWWF so he's out

Jack Brisco (28)--He's really the only option as the 63 selling should grow to at least 66 easily, but he's got a 63 SQ (that's a little iffy imho).

Ray Stevens (34)--If you want a 6 year older choice than Brisco, pick Ray. He's better in every way though only a brawler so his tech skills aren't on par. He's already got a yellow body though.

The Spoiler (28)--Not a likeable fellow in the locker room, 61 Selling, 71 Psych means he might be able to call in Cult.

 

The other two options that aren't on that list.

Dusty Rhodes (24)--Better than pretty much anyone in the game. Just need to up his top row stats. Really no other choice than to start with him as the avatar. He's just too awesome compared to everyone else. (81/89/74/71/67) plus 91 SQ and almost 80+ mic skills.

Harley Race (26)--Little better top row, little worse in selling and mic skills.

 

There just seems like there aren't enough stars to carry all of the feds or even half of them. I'm not really criticizing your ratings as they were probably accurate given the era, but they just won't play well in the game.

 

Again, the psych breakdown to call in the ring is (Regional/Cult/National/Int/Global)--66/73/77/82/88, and of course the selling is 66 (not sure if it goes up but I don't think so).

 

With that said, I think Snuka's Psych is just way too low at 37. Not sure he'll ever reach even 66 much less 73. Also, what did Wahoo ever do to you? (56/66/82/57/64) Performance row with a 46 Athleticism. This means he can barely call in the ring at Regional and will always get dinged for lack of selling. That's just lousy. I'd send that guy to development if he wasn't already 31.

[Teh_Showtime]

Again, the psych breakdown to call in the ring is (Regional/Cult/National/Int/Global)--66/73/77/82/88, and of course the selling is 66 (not sure if it goes up but I don't think so).

 

Where are you getting this from? On multiple occasions I've done just fine calling in the ring in National companies with sub 70 workers. It depends on how long the match is mostly as far as the threshold

[Jaysin]

Do not listen to smartman about psych thresholds. He either ignored Adam when he was corrected or never saw that he was corrected.

 

I'm not sure where this theory came from, but it's simply not true. There are no pre-set thresholds, and promotion size never has anything to do with in-ring ratings (why would it?).

 

From this thread:

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2019210#post2019210

[franticloser]

Call in the ring success is based on the base match rating before any bonus or negatives are calculated against the highest psychology rating of the workers in the match. This is from Adam, any one else saying different is wrong.

[shipshirt]

The Basics and Consistency stats seem really low overall too. Some of the stats do seem a little out of whack but not terribly. Like if you search the game world for "Great" in ring workers, Fritz Von Erich comes up but Bockwinkel doesn't. He's only considered a "good" in ring worker overall in the game but in reality I don't think many people would consider Fritz a better worker than Bockwinkel. Fabulous Moolah, Freddie Blassie, Blackjack Lanza all also come up as a Great worker while Ray Stevens and The Spoiler are only "Good". Stuff like that but that's just some tweaks here and there. I think it has to do with the Basics and Consistency (and possibly Safety...the majority of the workers were considered Safe back then. They really knew what they were doing).

 

The only "Excellent" in ring worker comes up as Verne Gagne

[franticloser]

I would have to say, basics and psych should be higher on any worker from this time worth their salt. The training most wrestlers went through then, was built on just learning the basics and the why to do something and the when to do it.

[Mammoth]

awesome, can't wait to have some free time to try it out.

I can't wait to hear your thoughts. Thank you again for the information you provided on Northland Wrestling Enterprises. As I told you when you came to me with the information, it's always nice having some of these smaller promotions in and around the many regional territories to add some texture to the game.

 

The only downside with locations in regards to capacity is that the capacity cannot be edited in-game with the in-game editor, only in the main editor before starting up a game save. :-/

Yeah, people who download the next update will have the benefit of it but unfortunately if you've already started a game, it's something you're stuck with. I don't think it's necessarily a big deal though, it's not like a make-or-break aspect of the game.

 

There just isn't a great list of keystone wrestlers to build around. Under 40 wrestlers that are sorted (with Fog off) as Great in-ring workers that are US people (so no Inoki or Baba or the Mexicans) is this.

 

Dory Funk Jr (28yrs)--working everywhere and a booker

Boris Malenko (36yrs)--way better than Bockwinkel btw and 1 year older, though 63 SQ hurts (and that's fine btw)

Eddie Graham (39yrs)--64 selling means he's out and soon to own CWF+booking right now

Gorilla Monsoon (32)--63 selling and loyal to WWWF so he's out

Jack Brisco (28)--He's really the only option as the 63 selling should grow to at least 66 easily, but he's got a 63 SQ (that's a little iffy imho).

Ray Stevens (34)--If you want a 6 year older choice than Brisco, pick Ray. He's better in every way though only a brawler so his tech skills aren't on par. He's already got a yellow body though.

The Spoiler (28)--Not a likeable fellow in the locker room, 61 Selling, 71 Psych means he might be able to call in Cult.

 

The other two options that aren't on that list.

Dusty Rhodes (24)--Better than pretty much anyone in the game. Just need to up his top row stats. Really no other choice than to start with him as the avatar. He's just too awesome compared to everyone else. (81/89/74/71/67) plus 91 SQ and almost 80+ mic skills.

Harley Race (26)--Little better top row, little worse in selling and mic skills.

 

There just seems like there aren't enough stars to carry all of the feds or even half of them. I'm not really criticizing your ratings as they were probably accurate given the era, but they just won't play well in the game.

Maybe there weren't that many stars to carry each promotion back then? Maybe that's why almost every single worker in the 1970s was banded around from territory to territory? You can't always rely on the game filter to find stars for you either. Sometimes, people like Nick Bockwinkel can easily become a star (in my opinion) in a promotion who's rated equally on popularity and skill, or particularly in an entertainment based promotion without those top row skills you're probably looking for. Take this from Derek B and his fabulous mod making guide for example:

 

"Now.. the Top Row Skills! These will always cause a lot of debate and I’m not going to pretend to be able to judge everyone in the world for thse, because I can’t. I lack the knowledge to be able to do so but hopefully I can help people with better knowledge to balance this in their gameworld. First of all, you don’t need to have a 100 or even a 90 in this row to get awesomely high rated matches. Sure, the better you are here the better… but within the Cornellverse there are only a couple of workers per top row stat that have 90 or higher. That’s maybe 1 or 2 per 1000 people in the gameworld that hit the top levels and yet the gameworld still gets lots of A rated matches out of people with less than A level talent. Why? Because so many other factors weigh into a match that you don’t need to pimp the top row to achieve good grades. Chemistry, tag experience, title prestige, momentum, storyline heat, charisma, star quality are the first things that come to mind on terms of bonuses and each of those can be adding up to 5 points (some of them less). That’s a lot of bonuses! Similarly, there are a lot of penalties too that can also bring things down… low psych, basics, consistency, bad chemistry, low title prestige, momentum etc… identifying the right stats for each is the key and can help you work out which top row stats rock, and which suck. Keep in mind that a good in-ring guy only really needs a 60ish in a top row stat to be doing pretty good/above average, a 70 to be considered a fine worker and an 80 to be brought up in discussions about being one of the best for a particular attribute and you should hopefully be able to mod well."

 

I also think you're discounting the people who can work in the US. There's a reason a lot of promotions brought in people from Japan, Mexico and even Britain and that's because of the exact problem you seem to be having. I believe you when you say you're not criticising my ratings, but I don't agree with you that they make it difficult to play.

 

With that said, I think Snuka's Psych is just way too low at 37. Not sure he'll ever reach even 66 much less 73. Also, what did Wahoo ever do to you? (56/66/82/57/64) Performance row with a 46 Athleticism. This means he can barely call in the ring at Regional and will always get dinged for lack of selling. That's just lousy. I'd send that guy to development if he wasn't already 31.

Yeah, I absolutely love Jimmy Snuka but I've never considered him a ring general per se. Like, he was an amazing athlete and a brilliant wrestler, but I don't think he was ever the guy calling the shots in the ring and I think that's why he's never been one of those guys who's made it into the office. He's had brilliant matches with almost everyone, but a lot of them were relatively quick matches and those that people remember that were of a certain length were usually down to the person he was competing with. Plus, he's still a rookie at the start of the game so yes, he may never reach the numbers you're talking about but he may reach a low C which - as I say - I think is right for him.

 

I also love Wahoo McDaniel, but he relied a lot on his charisma, gimmick and toughness; I don't think he'll ever be remembered as one of the best technically or am I totally wrong? Depending on what your product is, he should be more than a contender with his brawling and entertainment skills. I think we just have two very different views on how the game works and what will and won't make a guy a star in your promotion. xD Feel free to change anything you're not happy with for personal games.

 

Where are you getting this from? On multiple occasions I've done just fine calling in the ring in National companies with sub 70 workers. It depends on how long the match is mostly as far as the threshold

 

Do not listen to smartman about psych thresholds. He either ignored Adam when he was corrected or never saw that he was corrected.

 

From this thread:

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2019210#post2019210

 

Call in the ring success is based on the base match rating before any bonus or negatives are calculated against the highest psychology rating of the workers in the match. This is from Adam, any one else saying different is wrong.

Thank you to all three of you for bringing this to my attention. I was really confused at one point. xD

 

The Basics and Consistency stats seem really low overall too. Some of the stats do seem a little out of whack but not terribly. Like if you search the game world for "Great" in ring workers, Fritz Von Erich comes up but Bockwinkel doesn't. He's only considered a "good" in ring worker overall in the game but in reality I don't think many people would consider Fritz a better worker than Bockwinkel. Fabulous Moolah, Freddie Blassie, Blackjack Lanza all also come up as a Great worker while Ray Stevens and The Spoiler are only "Good". Stuff like that but that's just some tweaks here and there. I think it has to do with the Basics and Consistency (and possibly Safety...the majority of the workers were considered Safe back then. They really knew what they were doing).

 

The only "Excellent" in ring worker comes up as Verne Gagne

When you compare Nick Bockwinkel's and Fritz Von Erich's top row skills, Nick is marginally better. I think what's making Fritz "Great" is his performance skills and I think you've got to admit, I think Fritz knew the basics and psychology of the match more than Nick so I'm uneasy changing it. With Ray Stevens, he was always more of a brawler and entertainer which obviously hurts him when people are searching for "Great" in-ring workers. As for The Spoiler, he's probably a little underrated, I'll give you that one. I believe my reasoning for safety being what they are is that yes, people knew what they were doing but they also had to make it more believable back then so there was always that risk of hurting someone. I mean when you see the lists of injuries people had compared to now, it's staggering. You might say that's down to conditioning or better medical work in and around the business, but either way it's the reality of wrestling in the 1970s. As I alluded to earlier when responding to smartman, I think this moderation perhaps more than any other is reliant on you looking through statistics and finding what's good for you rather than relying on the game filter. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know.

 

I would have to say, basics and psych should be higher on any worker from this time worth their salt. The training most wrestlers went through then, was built on just learning the basics and the why to do something and the when to do it.

I do believe the average for both statistics is around a C, which is obviously a running theme throughout my moderation. xD I think psychology hasn't changed very much through the years and I think the average today should be around that C mark too. Yes, people were heavily trained but that doesn't mean everyone got it. If anything, I think "offices" as they were known back then were probably more important. Who was in the territories office had a big impact on the success of the territory (which is why so many territories went under after a sudden change of head booker) and the quality of the matches. In essence, there were a lot of good workers but a lot of them still relied heavily on people in the back telling them what to do. As for basics? That could potentially be something I raise in further additions because if there's anything that the extensive training helped, it would be their basics. So yes, maybe I will raise them in the future.

 

http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/redline.gif

 

I just want to say, I thank you all for your responses. It may sound like I'm heavily defending my moderation and unwilling to change but I just want to say that's not the case. I like to think I've already took up a lot of peoples suggestions and fixed a lot of errors but if I'm going to change something, I need to be sold on it too so I may counteract your argument but that does't mean I'm not willing to change in the future if you can persuade me otherwise. Thanks again.

[smartman]

Oh goody, I just love when things change, and everyone gets complete amnesia on what they told people. So, if what Adam said was true, in TEW10, then why did he and numerous other people tell me that that was specifically my problem with my TCW game? That's the reason I quit that game because I had only 5 or 6 guys (and that 83 was THE cutoff there) that could main event anything once I hit Global without the match getting hammered by the lack of psychology note. See, I didn't invent those numbers out of thin air. I got TOLD that by several of the key people on this forum back during 10. And furthermore, my RTG diary game in 10 that I abandoned really comes into play here because frantic is right. If your psych is low enough compared to what the match rating is, you'll get that every single time with time having nothing much to do with it.

 

You have to get high 70's-low 80's in the home area to not lose ground with any of the feds in the game, and as you have wrestlers gain pop which will lead to higher match ratings, you'll be seeing almost no one getting away with calling a match in the ring. The match will rate in the high 80's or low 90's, be compared to a mid-to-high 60's psych rating, and get nailed. So, Adam and I are really both right. There probably isn't a set number (though you have to have 66 or you fail every single time even in a 6 minute match), but it is really set by their pop (if you're doing equal or either pop>perf). Considering the default match lengths (not incorrect at all btw), almost none of those guys is going to avoid that note in the main event once they hit 80-90 pop (and many start at 70-80 so that will be a breeze).

 

See, the top row doesn't matter nearly as much as Psych. It has always been that way from the first TEW. That has been the very most important stat. So yeah, Bockwinkel has some good top row stats, but he can't main event a Cult fed if said Cult fed wants anything but low 80 matches. That's really what that list was. People who can get you high-80's to mid-90's in the main event. There are precious few of those in the game solely because of their low psych. A wrestler with a psych of 85 with mid-to-high 50's in top row is a much, much better wrestler than someone with a 66 psych and mid-70's top row simply because one will never get hit with that psych penalty. Really, that high top row with low psych is worse because that's ensuring that psych penalty.

 

Oh, and Jaysin, since you think I'm making everything up I post on here, I'm pretty sure I still have that TCW game in 10. I'll email it to you, and then you can see I'm telling the truth when Ino, Rocky, Tornado and Wolf (unless I edited him up) can't main event a match (with them being the high psych wrestler) without that penalty. I know I have that RTG game where any match that was going to be in the 80's got nailed in my Regional/Cult fed. Everything I post is from personal game experience and what people directly told me.

[paulskln]

Wow thanks for this great mod....

[shipshirt]

 

When you compare Nick Bockwinkel's and Fritz Von Erich's top row skills, Nick is marginally better. I think what's making Fritz "Great" is his performance skills and I think you've got to admit, I think Fritz knew the basics and psychology of the match more than Nick so I'm uneasy changing it. With Ray Stevens, he was always more of a brawler and entertainer which obviously hurts him when people are searching for "Great" in-ring workers. As for The Spoiler, he's probably a little underrated, I'll give you that one. I believe my reasoning for safety being what they are is that yes, people knew what they were doing but they also had to make it more believable back then so there was always that risk of hurting someone. I mean when you see the lists of injuries people had compared to now, it's staggering. You might say that's down to conditioning or better medical work in and around the business, but either way it's the reality of wrestling in the 1970s. As I alluded to earlier when responding to smartman, I think this moderation perhaps more than any other is reliant on you looking through statistics and finding what's good for you rather than relying on the game filter. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know.

 

 

I do believe the average for both statistics is around a C, which is obviously a running theme throughout my moderation. xD I think psychology hasn't changed very much through the years and I think the average today should be around that C mark too. Yes, people were heavily trained but that doesn't mean everyone got it. If anything, I think "offices" as they were known back then were probably more important. Who was in the territories office had a big impact on the success of the territory (which is why so many territories went under after a sudden change of head booker) and the quality of the matches. In essence, there were a lot of good workers but a lot of them still relied heavily on people in the back telling them what to do. As for basics? That could potentially be something I raise in further additions because if there's anything that the extensive training helped, it would be their basics. So yes, maybe I will raise them in the future.

 

http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/redline.gif

 

I just want to say, I thank you all for your responses. It may sound like I'm heavily defending my moderation and unwilling to change but I just want to say that's not the case. I like to think I've already took up a lot of peoples suggestions and fixed a lot of errors but if I'm going to change something, I need to be sold on it too so I may counteract your argument but that does't mean I'm not willing to change in the future if you can persuade me otherwise. Thanks again.

 

See, I wouldn't say Fritz was better than Bockwinkel in any category other than brawling. Nothing I've seen from both men says to me that Fritz was better but especially not Great compared to Good. As for Basics, Bockwinkel's dad brought him up in the business and he's already a 16 year veteran at the time of this mod I would think he'd be a lot higher than a C+. I think he gets sadly underrated with a lot of current day fans because they see him as an older Ric Flair during the dying days of AWA but man, he was so smooth in the ring and on the mic. Just a great wrestler even well into his 40s. With Stevens, most of his best stuff isn't on tape (sadly) but from what I've seen, read and heard from wrestlers he was one of the all time great workers.

 

But no, I don't think you're being defensive at all and I hope you don't think I'm trying to bust your balls on anything. I was just going through and making suggestions but I'd also be happy to keep my mouth shut and keep my opinions to myself At the end of the day, you are the one putting the hard work into it and honestly, if there's anything I want to change in the database when I'm playing or if I think someone was underrepresented I can always get off my butt and change it for myself

[Oyaji]

See, I wouldn't say Fritz was better than Bockwinkel in any category other than brawling. Nothing I've seen from both men says to me that Fritz was better but especially not Great compared to Good. As for Basics, Bockwinkel's dad brought him up in the business and he's already a 16 year veteran at the time of this mod I would think he'd be a lot higher than a C+. I think he gets sadly underrated with a lot of current day fans because they see him as an older Ric Flair during the dying days of AWA but man, he was so smooth in the ring and on the mic. Just a great wrestler even well into his 40s. With Stevens, most of his best stuff isn't on tape (sadly) but from what I've seen, read and heard from wrestlers he was one of the all time great workers.

 

But no, I don't think you're being defensive at all and I hope you don't think I'm trying to bust your balls on anything. I was just going through and making suggestions but I'd also be happy to keep my mouth shut and keep my opinions to myself At the end of the day, you are the one putting the hard work into it and honestly, if there's anything I want to change in the database when I'm playing or if I think someone was underrepresented I can always get off my butt and change it for myself

I'm in agreement on all of this. Nick Bockwinkel is one of the smartest, smoothest wrestlers of all time in my opinion. I know that doesn't mean much but in the grand scheme of the ratings, he seems undersold.

 

Another guy I feel is a li'l underrated is Mark Lewin - certainly not by much but he was one of the better wrestlers of this period, I thought. Awesome brawler, good technical ability, very good athleticism for a man of his size (that dropkick!), and entertaining as heck at both a crazy heel or traditional babyface.

 

I'm usually heck of picky about ratings but in general you've done an incredible job. Bock, Lewin, and Jardine are the main guys that strike me as needing a bit of bump in skills and, in a mod that is so thorough in scope, that's pretty great!

[Mattywood]

See, I wouldn't say Fritz was better than Bockwinkel in any category other than brawling. Nothing I've seen from both men says to me that Fritz was better but especially not Great compared to Good. As for Basics, Bockwinkel's dad brought him up in the business and he's already a 16 year veteran at the time of this mod I would think he'd be a lot higher than a C+. I think he gets sadly underrated with a lot of current day fans because they see him as an older Ric Flair during the dying days of AWA but man, he was so smooth in the ring and on the mic. Just a great wrestler even well into his 40s. With Stevens, most of his best stuff isn't on tape (sadly) but from what I've seen, read and heard from wrestlers he was one of the all time great workers.

 

But no, I don't think you're being defensive at all and I hope you don't think I'm trying to bust your balls on anything. I was just going through and making suggestions but I'd also be happy to keep my mouth shut and keep my opinions to myself At the end of the day, you are the one putting the hard work into it and honestly, if there's anything I want to change in the database when I'm playing or if I think someone was underrepresented I can always get off my butt and change it for myself

 

As someone who has seen old clips of both Fritz and Bockwinkel, and even as a Von Erich fan, I would also agree that Bockwinkel was better in the ring than Fritz save for of course, as you said, brawling. If there was anyone who could make you believe that he was beating the you know what out of his opponents, it was definitely Fritz. Now Fritz as a technician? That I would question. But there's no doubt he was a very good, if not great, brawler.

[Mammoth]

Oh goody, I just love when things change, and everyone gets complete amnesia on what they told people. So, if what Adam said was true, in TEW10, then why did he and numerous other people tell me that that was specifically my problem with my TCW game? That's the reason I quit that game because I had only 5 or 6 guys (and that 83 was THE cutoff there) that could main event anything once I hit Global without the match getting hammered by the lack of psychology note. See, I didn't invent those numbers out of thin air. I got TOLD that by several of the key people on this forum back during 10. And furthermore, my RTG diary game in 10 that I abandoned really comes into play here because frantic is right. If your psych is low enough compared to what the match rating is, you'll get that every single time with time having nothing much to do with it.

 

You have to get high 70's-low 80's in the home area to not lose ground with any of the feds in the game, and as you have wrestlers gain pop which will lead to higher match ratings, you'll be seeing almost no one getting away with calling a match in the ring. The match will rate in the high 80's or low 90's, be compared to a mid-to-high 60's psych rating, and get nailed. So, Adam and I are really both right. There probably isn't a set number (though you have to have 66 or you fail every single time even in a 6 minute match), but it is really set by their pop (if you're doing equal or either pop>perf). Considering the default match lengths (not incorrect at all btw), almost none of those guys is going to avoid that note in the main event once they hit 80-90 pop (and many start at 70-80 so that will be a breeze).

 

See, the top row doesn't matter nearly as much as Psych. It has always been that way from the first TEW. That has been the very most important stat. So yeah, Bockwinkel has some good top row stats, but he can't main event a Cult fed if said Cult fed wants anything but low 80 matches. That's really what that list was. People who can get you high-80's to mid-90's in the main event. There are precious few of those in the game solely because of their low psych. A wrestler with a psych of 85 with mid-to-high 50's in top row is a much, much better wrestler than someone with a 66 psych and mid-70's top row simply because one will never get hit with that psych penalty. Really, that high top row with low psych is worse because that's ensuring that psych penalty.

I really don't know what to think now. xD Do you know what? I'll go through Psychology must like I did Selling and see who I can give a little bump to. I'm not promising everyone will raise to the numbers you're talking about, but hopefully I can find some form of middle ground that everyone will be happy with. If anything, a little rise should give a lot of the workers who aren't over the hill the opportunity to rise to the numbers you want.

 

Wow thanks for this great mod....

You're very welcome.

 

See, I wouldn't say Fritz was better than Bockwinkel in any category other than brawling. Nothing I've seen from both men says to me that Fritz was better but especially not Great compared to Good. As for Basics, Bockwinkel's dad brought him up in the business and he's already a 16 year veteran at the time of this mod I would think he'd be a lot higher than a C+. I think he gets sadly underrated with a lot of current day fans because they see him as an older Ric Flair during the dying days of AWA but man, he was so smooth in the ring and on the mic. Just a great wrestler even well into his 40s. With Stevens, most of his best stuff isn't on tape (sadly) but from what I've seen, read and heard from wrestlers he was one of the all time great workers.

No, I definitely don't think Fritz was a better technical wrestler, and I truly hope that doesn't come across. I do think he deserves the high basics and psychology however, because he's a veteran at this point who has been everywhere and done everything, turning into a more than respectable trainer and booker/promoter. Compared to everyone else, a C+ is quite high. Trust me, I'm a huge fan of Nick Bockwinkel and truthfully don't feel like I've underrated him. That said, as it seems to be the general consensus that I have, I'm more than willing to look over him again and try to boost him up a bit. I'm also a true Ray Stevens fan, which is why I purposely made him (usually) one of the top five on the "Power 500." There are maybe one or two of the more technical statistics (mat work and chain wrestling) that I maybe undersold, so again, I'll take a look and see what I can do.

 

But no, I don't think you're being defensive at all and I hope you don't think I'm trying to bust your balls on anything. I was just going through and making suggestions but I'd also be happy to keep my mouth shut and keep my opinions to myself At the end of the day, you are the one putting the hard work into it and honestly, if there's anything I want to change in the database when I'm playing or if I think someone was underrepresented I can always get off my butt and change it for myself

No, this is what I want. I'd much rather have people debating with me than just telling me what is good about the moderation. It's debate that makes things better, unless you're part of the United States Congress. My message was more about me not wanting to offend than anyone here offending me; I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not shooting anyones ideas down, I just want to hear more about why they think possible changes should be included. Once I hear more (like I've done on Nick Bockwinkel and Ray Stevens, in your case) and I've been sold on the idea, then I'm more than willing to change it. Keep your suggestions coming.

 

Another guy I feel is a li'l underrated is Mark Lewin - certainly not by much but he was one of the better wrestlers of this period, I thought. Awesome brawler, good technical ability, very good athleticism for a man of his size (that dropkick!), and entertaining as heck at both a crazy heel or traditional babyface.

 

I'm usually heck of picky about ratings but in general you've done an incredible job. Bock, Lewin, and Jardine are the main guys that strike me as needing a bit of bump in skills and, in a mod that is so thorough in scope, that's pretty great!

Yeah, I've always thought Mark Lewin has been highly underrated (in real life) because when people talk about the "good ol' days," Mark Lewin is very rarely brought up. Having just looked over his statistics, I can definetely see where you're coming from and in some areas (hardcore and mat work to name just two) I can see that he is a little downplayed. Expect Nick Bockwinkel, Mark Lewin and The Spoiler (I've already done him) to all be upped a little bit in the next update. Thank you for your kind words at the end there too.

[smartman]

<p>Honestly, I think the best thing for you to do Mammoth is to put each of the available USA workers in WWWF (only Cult fed at start) one or 5 at a time that you want to be able to call in the ring, bump their NE or Tri-State pop to 85-90 and run a few matches where they are clearly the higher psych wrestler in a 16-30 minute match with call in ring and slow build (you may have to drop the latter if the opponent isn't good enough). Then keep adjusting up their psych rating until they stop getting dinged, then add a few more points for National as anyone starting a game will, realistically, max out there, though maybe AWA could hit International with their Canada deal. You could tweak their top row skills too as you go if the results (minus random chemistry notes) are too low for what you want them to be.</p><p> </p><p>

As for the mod as a whole, it depends on what you want to say. If you want to say, "Clearly without Hulk Hogan's awesomeness and once in a generation ability and Vince's creativity/vision, wrestling never would have broken into the mainstream.", so obviously everyone that came before him can't be as good, that's fine. Make sure no one can go higher than Cult because no one can get an 80-85 main event consistently. That's a legit thought. There are evidently a ton of people that want to be stuck at Regional (what I gathered from Al's 1983 mod when I brought that up) so you'll still have an audience. However, it will need to be tweaked if you're going into this with the thought of "If only someone had had any vision or creativity, what Vince did could largely be replicated earlier with a few guys filling that role (tweaked for the era minus the closed circuit boost).". There just isn't that guy there other than Dusty and maybe Harley with future Flair lurking (I don't think Baba or Inoki could have had any chance. Way too many racists running around.). At least that's what the mod is saying right now. Personally, I would add Bockwinkel and both Funks to that list and a 20 year old Piper (can you tell I'm a huge Piper mark?) of the already debuted wrestlers. As a CWA baby, no, Lawler couldn't. Just too small. Sorry, King.<img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[lovegun77]

<p>Ratings are always can be changed by player, and you will never satisfy everyone anyway. I think your ratings are already very acceptable overall.</p><p>

I just want to see next generation (80s) wrestlers in your mod more than anything! Like Ricky steamboat or Junk yard dog, those who made their debut in late 70s.</p>

[Mammoth]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lovegun77" data-cite="lovegun77" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="38619" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Ratings are always can be changed by player, and you will never satisfy everyone anyway. I think your ratings are already very acceptable overall.<p> I just want to see next generation (80s) wrestlers in your mod more than anything! Like Ricky steamboat or Junk yard dog, those who made their debut in late 70s.</p></div></blockquote><p> Yeah, my general rule at the minute is "unless it's the general consensus or I agree with the criticism, I'm not changing statistics." It's completely up to how people interpret them and there are so many variables that lead people to believe that a worker is good or bad (like nostalgia for one) that it's impossible to please everyone.</p><p> </p><p> I'm about half way through the entire database in terms of going through everyone and adjusting both their Basics and Psychology but I'm still working on those yet to début workers. I have a whole list of people I'm going to add and both Junkyard Dog and Ricky Steamboat are on that list. No ETA on when the next release will be, but I'll be sure to keep everyone posted. I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised with the changes.</p><p> </p><p> By the way, how is everyone dealing with the events that I added? Have any issues presented themselves or are people pretty happy with me leaving them in?</p>

[WrestleManiac]

<p>Damn, you! </p><p> </p><p>

I've just started, and am thoroughly enjoying, a 1985 mod I've recently discovered and downloaded. Now, this comes out and it looks awesome. </p><p> </p><p>

Fortunately - for me, anyway - it seems you're still busy fine tuning this mod. So, once I've got bored of my current game, I'll come and download this and - hopefully - all the tuning will be finished.</p><p> </p><p>

Sounds like a mammoth job you've done here (see what I did, there?). Keep up the hard work.</p>

[lovegun77]

<p>I am so glad hear that you are working for yet to debut wrestlers!</p><p>

by the way, I am playing WWA as Dick the bruiser.</p><p>

But when I look into the company, Dick the bruiser is not 'franchise player' of WWA, and also he is not ranked as maineventer but a upper midcarter. Since he is WWA champion as he always was, I have a little problem in making matches. Should I just change his role to maineventer?</p>