Peter.1986 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 perfect show theory still seems to get me, ive tried all sorts. My lowests grades are C+ or B- could this be the problem? If I have 9 main eventers I want to use them all to keep them happy, and having a star studded roster brings good matches and angles. Can I do this without getting a burnout? I seem to always get a burnout in the last match, sometimes even a burnt out crowd and a cold crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bombadil Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 How I usually book cards: First segment is a hot angle or my third best match, maybe with "work the crowd" Then my second-weakest segment Then alternate between good segments and less good segments, trying to slowly build up in quality A crappy segment or match to rest the crowd My best two matches and maybe some good angles I'm sure others can improve on that formula but I don't usually have crowd issues at least. The main thing is not to have too many of your best segments in a row- break them up with some junk, especially going into your main event and sub-main slots. Work the crowd is a good backup plan too when you can't follow that for some reason. Avoid All-out unless it's a short main event or two undercarders you want to get over that aren't big enough to steal the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrokenCycle Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Something I found helpful was actually watching and studying wrestling shows that were good. Go on YouTube and find any Smackdown from 2000 and just write down every segment they did, detailing how "good" the segment was and how much time it took up. The reason why you should watch Smackdown and not Raw, I feel, is because Smackdown was a much more seamless product at the time: It was just a well booked wrestling show that was super simple. I noticed that they had hot segments, then cooled the crowd down with stuff that wasn't so good, then basically alternated between good and not good until the show peaked to a main event. That strategy worked for me pretty well in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfRoMaN36 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 In my game I've been regularly hitting A* lately. This is the formula I follow. 1.3rd best match (to get the crowd hot) 2. Decent match 3. Decent match 4. Worst match/piss break/work the crowd (Cool down the crowd) 5. 2nd best match 6. Best match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheZies Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I agree with Brokencycle, Heyman's Smackdowns are a good place to watch too. when I get to where I have a 2 hour show, I breakdown my show like this: (Main Event Segment Story#1) midcard upper mid (mid-upper mid segment Story #5 ) upper mid (Main Event Segment Story #3) Main Event Upper mid (Upper mid segment Story #4) Main Event (Short main story #2 -- to cool down) (main story #1 -- to amp back up a little) Main Event (closing segment if needed) That's my standard formula when I'm just trying to power through some shows. I'll break away and do Story #2 focused shows or #3 focused. But the match sequence usually stays the same unless I throw out a big 25 minute main event, a contract signing or something. I usually keep my match percentage pretty high for TV and Events, so this is my go-to formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter.1986 Posted April 3, 2015 Author Share Posted April 3, 2015 I don't have a problem with the overall rating I'm always getting B+ to A* but my main event matches are the ones I'm getting the problem of a crowd burnout, and when I try different approaches I still get s burnout with a cold crowd. I'm getting B and B+ and the odd A when I know without this they would be higher. I don't agree with a burnt out crowd, I agree you can get a crowd hot or cold. But if I go and watch a show and it hot all the way through then ive got my money's worth, I don't get burnt out watching it lol. But back to the game, could it be that C+ isn't really a cool down? And I'm having a lot of b+ and A angles before my cool down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartman Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I don't agree with a burnt out crowd, I agree you can get a crowd hot or cold. But if I go and watch a show and it hot all the way through then ive got my money's worth, I don't get burnt out watching it lol. Edit: Oh, and a burnt out crowd note has nothing to do with Perfect Show Theory. That only affects your final grade. I see people make that comment all the time, and it isn't true. You'd get worn down pretty quickly if everything was amazing. You need time to breathe. That's why action and horror movies aren't 90-120 minutes of amazeballs action or fright scenes. You appreciate those scenes more when you have something to contrast it against, and it is the same with wrestling shows. Yes, you need to use your main eventers (and upper mids) on every show, but there are plenty of ways to break things up to avoid a burnt out crowd note (which happens btw when several consecutive segments grade roughly the same--within 5-8 pts of each other). It's harder to do on PPV's though. The best bet is to have some killer angles that get 90+ ratings followed by a 75ish match from your midcarders. That will get the note that it lowered the crowd while it won't do anything to your show grade. Also, avoid putting an angle right before your semi-main that is going to score huge. It not only dings your match if it turns out to not be great, but if it is great, then you've just come close to guaranteeing that your main event will have a burnt out crowd. Same with an angle between your semi-main and main event matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Use minor 1 minute angles before your semi main event and before your main event It helps immensely with the penalty for falling behind the previous segment as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter.1986 Posted April 4, 2015 Author Share Posted April 4, 2015 Edit: Oh, and a burnt out crowd note has nothing to do with Perfect Show Theory. That only affects your final grade. I see people make that comment all the time, and it isn't true. You'd get worn down pretty quickly if everything was amazing. You need time to breathe. That's why action and horror movies aren't 90-120 minutes of amazeballs action or fright scenes. You appreciate those scenes more when you have something to contrast it against, and it is the same with wrestling shows. Yes, you need to use your main eventers (and upper mids) on every show, but there are plenty of ways to break things up to avoid a burnt out crowd note (which happens btw when several consecutive segments grade roughly the same--within 5-8 pts of each other). It's harder to do on PPV's though. The best bet is to have some killer angles that get 90+ ratings followed by a 75ish match from your midcarders. That will get the note that it lowered the crowd while it won't do anything to your show grade. Also, avoid putting an angle right before your semi-main that is going to score huge. It not only dings your match if it turns out to not be great, but if it is great, then you've just come close to guaranteeing that your main event will have a burnt out crowd. Same with an angle between your semi-main and main event matches. I never get a burnt out crowd when I have it turned off? well I dont think so anyway. I don't want to get into a debate about the theory as I do belive in much of it, but from personal experience I have never found myself 'burnt out' wherever I have been or whatever I have been to see or seen on TV. I think my major problem then is the last 4 things I am doing up to the final match. I have tried the following to work best for me (I usually have angles after the last match but this doesnt count right? 4 lower rating than previous segment (match or angle) 3 big angle 2 (second best match) Final Match (Best match rating) 4 big angle (higher rating than previous segment 3 (second best match) 2 lower rating than previous segment Final Match (Best match rating) 4 big angle (higher rating than previous segment 3 (second best match) 2 higher than previous segment, but lower than final grade Final Match (Best match rating) I have tried a few more too. but am I going wrong at my last angle before my Semi Main event? I use this to get the crowd hot, what kind of rating does my last angle need to be? because when I have a B angle just before my semi main, and a B semi main, I get a cold crowd in my main match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Nection Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 I always surround crap angles with good matches and vise versa. If you are running WWE you can do this by Running this formula right here.... John Cena opens show and says he is giving an open challenge to anyone on the roster with US Title on the line... (Scores somewhere between b and A) Curtis Axel comes out to challenge him... (Scores somewhere between c and B) They have their match and work the crowd and John goes over in a squash by use of STF (Scores between B and A because Curtis can actually work lol) After bell rings John is still holding the STF in and takes alot of officials to pull him off Rate John on his menace... (Scores between c and B) Daniel Bryan comes out to break it up finally and breaks the submission and challenges John at the PPV to merge his IC and John's US then hits John with Running knee (Scores between B and A) The commentary team talk about what they just saw (Scores between C and B) That is the first 30 minutes of TV right there and just keep bringing them back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpion Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I never get a burnt out crowd when I have it turned off? well I dont think so anyway. I don't want to get into a debate about the theory as I do belive in much of it, but from personal experience I have never found myself 'burnt out' wherever I have been or whatever I have been to see or seen on TV. I think my major problem then is the last 4 things I am doing up to the final match. I have tried the following to work best for me (I usually have angles after the last match but this doesnt count right? 4 lower rating than previous segment (match or angle) 3 big angle 2 (second best match) Final Match (Best match rating) 4 big angle (higher rating than previous segment 3 (second best match) 2 lower rating than previous segment Final Match (Best match rating) 4 big angle (higher rating than previous segment 3 (second best match) 2 higher than previous segment, but lower than final grade Final Match (Best match rating) I have tried a few more too. but am I going wrong at my last angle before my Semi Main event? I use this to get the crowd hot, what kind of rating does my last angle need to be? because when I have a B angle just before my semi main, and a B semi main, I get a cold crowd in my main match OKay I had a sandbox game I've been doing to learn entertainment. I was having really good success with this formula in the final segments of the show: -Interview with #2 or #3 talker (should be a good one) -Cool down Match (Here I would throw a 6 min Marat Khoklov match. Over enough to get a good rating but never *that* good) -Semi-Main Event (2nd best match) -1 min hype video for the most over worker/team in Main event (This is a safety in case your semi-ME is better, your ME won't tank) -Main Event (Best match) -Interview with winner of main event (or loser) No crowd burnout, the video protects your main event, and assuming the last interview is better than ME it will help pull up your show rating Edit: I should add, how that last angle affects your show rating depends on your match ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 OKay I had a sandbox game I've been doing to learn entertainment. I was having really good success with this formula in the final segments of the show: -Interview with #2 or #3 talker (should be a good one) -Cool down Match (Here I would throw a 6 min Marat Khoklov match. Over enough to get a good rating but never *that* good) -Semi-Main Event (2nd best match) -1 min hype video for the most over worker/team in Main event (This is a safety in case your semi-ME is better, your ME won't tank) -Main Event (Best match) -Interview with winner of main event (or loser) No crowd burnout, the video protects your main event, and assuming the last interview is better than ME it will help pull up your show rating Edit: I should add, how that last angle affects your show rating depends on your match ratio. I think I read a post of your from a couple years ago where you advocated a 'rule of three' type approach to booking using the PTS? Is that right and if so, are you still using it? I tried it in a show last night and got a better grade than I had been getting with the same roster/mix. Adding those entertainment angles is helpful advice as well since I have a pop over perf fed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpion Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I think I read a post of your from a couple years ago where you advocated a 'rule of three' type approach to booking using the PTS? Is that right and if so, are you still using it? I tried it in a show last night and got a better grade than I had been getting with the same roster/mix. Adding those entertainment angles is helpful advice as well since I have a pop over perf fed. oh absolutely. That was my system for 80-90% match companies, though as others taught me, you can still throw in that 1 min video to protect your main event. Doing a 60% match company has been more of a challenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonafide_Bluffa Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I don't agree with a burnt out crowd, I agree you can get a crowd hot or cold. But if I go and watch a show and it hot all the way through then ive got my money's worth, I don't get burnt out watching it lol. Watch Wrestlemania 25. HBK and Taker tore the house down and HHH/Orton followed. No one was into the match at all. The crowd was completely worn out and the match suffered for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter.1986 Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Watch Wrestlemania 25. HBK and Taker tore the house down and HHH/Orton followed. No one was into the match at all. The crowd was completely worn out and the match suffered for it. More that the better match was first. Opposite way round the crowd wouldn't have been burnt. That's my point my last match is always my best but my crowd are burnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Wanted to resurrect this as I am having a bit of trouble with fitting angles into this. To what extent do they factor into a the PST calculation? I am doing well using Scorpion's rule of three for the matches- my show grades got a nice bump when I started using that as a basic framework. However, I have an angle heavy product (30%) which I want for the 5-6 storylines I run at any given time, and it seems to me that improper placement of these is affecting some show. So, all that to ask: how to place angles into the PST structure to best effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter.1986 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dr. Hook" data-cite="Dr. Hook" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39477" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Wanted to resurrect this as I am having a bit of trouble with fitting angles into this. To what extent do they factor into a the PST calculation? I am doing well using Scorpion's rule of three for the matches- my show grades got a nice bump when I started using that as a basic framework. However, I have an angle heavy product (30%) which I want for the 5-6 storylines I run at any given time, and it seems to me that improper placement of these is affecting some show. So, all that to ask: how to place angles into the PST structure to best effect?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's quite odd how this works, I seem to have mastered it now, sometimes I slip up and by booking it in a way to please the PST actual costs me, </p><p> </p><p> I pretty much wrote the show how I want then jiggle it about rather than writing to the PST</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I find that the matches have to go in their order</p><p> </p><p> 3rd to last (lower than last but not much lower than semi main)</p><p> Semi main (as close to main as possible but below)</p><p> Main highest match</p><p> </p><p> Regardless of the rest of the matches. But if you have more than 3 matches they go higher/lower/ etc all the way to the 3rd to last.</p><p> </p><p> Angles I find these make the crowd hot, but also at the expense of the next segment being lower.</p><p> </p><p> They don't have to be placed in these positions but if they are</p><p> </p><p> Just before semi main (needs to be below semi main, but as close as possible)</p><p> Just before main (same again this needs to be below your main match grade, but as close as possible)</p><p> </p><p> I find really hot angles keep the crowd going for a few segments, which increases grades, but it is better to have one just before a lower match, than a higher match, as the lower match will get penalised slight for bringing the crowd down after it, </p><p> </p><p> Getting this right and wrong can be the difference between a B+ and an A* angle.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 It's quite odd how this works, I seem to have mastered it now, sometimes I slip up and by booking it in a way to please the PST actual costs me, I pretty much wrote the show how I want then jiggle it about rather than writing to the PST I find that the matches have to go in their order 3rd to last (lower than last but not much lower than semi main) Semi main (as close to main as possible but below) Main highest match Regardless of the rest of the matches. But if you have more than 3 matches they go higher/lower/ etc all the way to the 3rd to last. Angles I find these make the crowd hot, but also at the expense of the next segment being lower. They don't have to be placed in these positions but if they are Just before semi main (needs to be below semi main, but as close as possible) Just before main (same again this needs to be below your main match grade, but as close as possible) I find really hot angles keep the crowd going for a few segments, which increases grades, but it is better to have one just before a lower match, than a higher match, as the lower match will get penalised slight for bringing the crowd down after it, Getting this right and wrong can be the difference between a B+ and an A* angle. Peter, thanks, I think . So I'm not having problems with match order. I usually put by third best (or equivalent) to open the show, then the two worst, then a good, then a couple worse than it, etc. Are you saying you've found the top three matches on the card need to go in order? Back to angles: to unravel your method, the angles need to be merged into the show flow, so to speak, so use them to lift the crowd after a couple of meh matches sort of thing? I also use a meh angle if my semi-main potentially is better than the main event. Lots to think about here, but as I am sometimes running as many angles as matches it gets hard to know how to think of the order. Maybe I should think of angles as matches for the purposes of show grades to get a good order for them when merged in with the matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter.1986 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 <p>No, your best two should be the last two, but I was just saying the last 3 matches should be in the order, (a lower) (a higher) (a higher)</p><p> (By lower and higher I just mean lower or higher than the match before)</p><p> Anything before that should be alternate. No 2 highers or lowers in a row</p><p> </p><p> Regarding 3rd best first. I find that it's not worth it if it doesn't fit in the theory. Eg i write what I want first, and don't always have the right amount of matches to have my 3 best match as the opener, and follow the PST. So i always put the PST first.</p><p> </p><p> And with your angles yeah. Use them to make sure your next match/angle after is more likely to follow suit, so if you have 2 matches next to each other a higher then a lower, but you think they could be similar, use an angle you know is going to be higher than them both to follow the higher match , this will then bring your next (your lower) match down. Making sure you follow the theory.</p><p> </p><p> Also regarding the 2 hottest angles (for show ratings:</p><p> </p><p> Having them first is always a good option</p><p> Having them follow a match or angle you know it is going to beat will always raise</p><p> Having it after the last match can also be a good idea because after the main event you don't need to worry about hot or burnt out crowds, so you could have an angle lower than you main event straight after, then use your main angle after that.</p><p> </p><p> Yeah use them to heat the crowd up before a bad match and usually it keeps them warm enough for the one after providing you don't go too low.</p><p> </p><p> And yeah regarding the angle in between the main and semi, it just needs to be below your main or it will pull your main down, but needs to be high enough to keep the crowd going</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Thanks, that is helpful. I am still trying to get around the PST thing. I started TEW booking the shows like a boxing card- with PST on, this doesn't work so well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter.1986 Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dr. Hook" data-cite="Dr. Hook" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39477" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Thanks, that is helpful. I am still trying to get around the PST thing. I started TEW booking the shows like a boxing card- with PST on, this doesn't work so well</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You could always turn it off. But i find it's too easy without it on</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 <p>This is my most recent card: <a href="http://i.imgur.com/ptZ9EI9.png" rel="external nofollow">http://i.imgur.com/ptZ9EI9.png</a></p><p> </p><p> Please could any resident experts tell me how they think it would do with perfect show theory on? The way I book I tend to keep the order of the card, Enhancement Talent at the top, midcard at the middle and main eventers last. Will this approach need to be changed if I start a game with PST On?</p><p> </p><p> Thanks in advance <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Newman" data-cite="Newman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39477" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This is my most recent card: <a href="http://i.imgur.com/ptZ9EI9.png" rel="external nofollow">http://i.imgur.com/ptZ9EI9.png</a><p> </p><p> Please could any resident experts tell me how they think it would do with perfect show theory on? The way I book I tend to keep the order of the card, Enhancement Talent at the top, midcard at the middle and main eventers last. Will this approach need to be changed if I start a game with PST On?</p><p> </p><p> Thanks in advance <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> yes you will need to change- this is how I did at first, like a boxing card with your preliminary matches leading up to the main or co-main event(s). PST says you should build in peaks and valleys so as not so either burn out a crowd or cool it off too much. With that standard approach that you have and which I used to use, you would end up with potentially poor main match grades because of a burnt out crowd.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dr. Hook" data-cite="Dr. Hook" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39477" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>yes you will need to change- this is how I did at first, like a boxing card with your preliminary matches leading up to the main or co-main event(s). PST says you should build in peaks and valleys so as not so either burn out a crowd or cool it off too much. With that standard approach that you have and which I used to use, you would end up with potentially poor main match grades because of a burnt out crowd.</div></blockquote><p> Thanks Doc that is exactly what I figured, so basically as long as I leave my last two matches at the end, and attempt to place my opening matches throughout the card and open with what I hope will be my best angle then I should be OK right?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Newman" data-cite="Newman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39477" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Thanks Doc that is exactly what I figured, so basically as long as I leave my last two matches at the end, and attempt to place my opening matches throughout the card and open with what I hope will be my best angle then I should be OK right?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I've been using a "rule of three" approach suggested by Scorpion. The idea is you rate your matches as best you can on a 5 point scale. Then you arrange them like so (using a 9 match card as an example): 4 1 2 4 2 3 2 4 5, or something like that. You can substitute different levels of matches (I have usually more 3 matches than 2 as I figure it) but this works well for me as a baseline.</p><p> </p><p> In your case, I think you are right with the idea. I open with a strong match (my third best, typically) and then a couple crap matches, a strong match, couple of higher order crap, then a weaker match to precede my two main events.</p><p> </p><p> Alternatively, you can kick off with angles, and as I was discussing with Peter above, rate the angles so you can work them into your "rule of three" framework with the idea of bringing the crowd up and down but steadily upward to a big finish. Peter's idea of taking a really hot angle that you know is going to score well and doing after the main event is useful also. I do this when I think my best angle will be better than the main event. Another trick I learned on the forums here is that if you have two really good co-mains, then stick a 1 or 2 minute weak angle (like a hype video) between the two to cool off the crowd so your last match doesn't suffer.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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