lr10540 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 How do you do it consistently? I generally have no problems getting a monster heel, or ass kicking babyface over. Slap a brute gimmick on them, use menace based angles, squash matches for a couple months and feud with midcarders on the way up. I got a rookie Brock Lesnar to high 80s, low 90s in his rookie year doing that in The War Begins mod. However, Im finding it difficult to get other types of talents over- the cool/cocky gimmicks. For example, when I first got Brock, I teamed him with Bryan (idea being Bryan could carry the match since he was slightly better than Brock, and also allow Brock to be protected in defeat) and I did similar angles with Bryan, booking him going over in his feuds, as well as every angle I booked him in, and he went up significantly slower than Brock. Basically, if I can't push someone based on their menace, it's hard for me to get them over. FYI perf = pop in any game I do, including this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
de knegt Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Well the first thing is that if you're a low popularity company, the popularity of your workers will find the popularity status quo. So if your company is 30 pop in South West, it's going to be very hard getting someone higher than 30 pop unless you're putting him over people who have higher than 30 pop. Entertaining people can do a lot of things on the stick to help them get over by talking the talk. But only having good promos won't make them super over, they need to win matches, and preferably win matches against people who are more over than them. The general gist is that people need to win to get over, you can't expect them to get over by talking a big game, then losing in the very next match. Wins and losses don't matter, but they still matter because a loser won't get over. And if a loser does get over, you need to start making him win because he'll have a high destiny roll. And putting people over takes time whatever way you cut it. Unless you give him a Brock-push -of him tearing through everyone and winning the title in record time-, you're going to take a good (half) year to put someone into the higher card. And well, some people will be Billy Gunn and never get over bigtime, if they're winning and looking good, and their pop isn't improving, then you should accept that they're not going to get over the way you want them to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tambourin81 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Keep in mind that momentum, previous wins, gimmick rating, destiny etc. all influence how much a worker is going to get over. But if you keep pushing people and consistently have them win well rated matches, they should eventually rise up the card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter.1986 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 How do you do it consistently? I generally have no problems getting a monster heel, or ass kicking babyface over. Slap a brute gimmick on them, use menace based angles, squash matches for a couple months and feud with midcarders on the way up. I got a rookie Brock Lesnar to high 80s, low 90s in his rookie year doing that in The War Begins mod. However, Im finding it difficult to get other types of talents over- the cool/cocky gimmicks. For example, when I first got Brock, I teamed him with Bryan (idea being Bryan could carry the match since he was slightly better than Brock, and also allow Brock to be protected in defeat) and I did similar angles with Bryan, booking him going over in his feuds, as well as every angle I booked him in, and he went up significantly slower than Brock. Basically, if I can't push someone based on their menace, it's hard for me to get them over. FYI perf = pop in any game I do, including this one. I've found ppv's have a major effect on this. A lot of the time pick my matches and build my workers who will be in these (I try and build the main event, to semi main workers then everyone else. I have found that sometimes I could have a main event match between my top 2 wrestlers, I could have them win 4 matches on my weekly TV show, and then have them fight the main event. Sometimes because it's on a Ppv my kosher of the main match can lose popularity from the beginning of the month to the end because they lost that Ppv, they sometimes lose more than they gain in the 4 wins. So if you purely want to build someone, then make sure they don't lose ppv's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacamano123 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 One thing that I've done is put guys with high charisma but who I have nothing for on color commentary, let their pop creep up to 80 (don't know why it does this but I'll take it), use them to put guys over, put them back on commentary, and repeat the process. This combined with the normal tricks usually means I can make a guy a top star within a year of his debut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungner Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 If I have an enhancement talent or opener, that I want to push, I put him in a feud with a midcarder or upper mid. I then have him win matches on HEAT or Velocity where the grades won't affect company popularity, and use them in angles on RAW / SD with the guy they are feuding with, usually not having the ET/Opener rated, but having them gain success in the storyline. Then when the storyline ends, they will usually have gained a significant amount of popularity and momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacamano123 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Having guys win matches on B shows where another guy in the storyline does a run in is a cheap and easy way to build momentum for both guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubb93 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I generally only play sports entertainment companies to pop > perf, but I find it generally easy. Put them in angles with people more popular than them. Put them in a stable. Have your top guy run a small TV program with them. Have them be the guy that saves an established star from something. Have them degrade your established star. Really it doesn't matter WHAT they do, it matters WHO they do it to or WHO they do it with. Having an angle with Jack Bruce, Eric Eisen, and [insert random new guy here] isn't going to hurt Bruce or Eisen at all and it's going to do wonders for the new guy, especially if you are consistent about it. The only other advice would be to keep their momentum high. You could do that by only booking them in angles that are sure to score high [see the angle advice above] or you could put them in short storylines that they consistently come out looking good in. The storyline doesn't even need to be about them. They could quick hit into a storyline involving some of your top guys. Look great in 2 or 3 segments [plus been seen on TV in angles with these guys] before they disappear from the storyline and move on to something else. An angle or a match that is for sure going to rate significantly below your companies popularity isn't going to do anything for a guy you are trying to build. You need to find creative ways to get these guys on TV and avoid putting them in something that is going to bomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Just give them an interesting angle or several angles that involve someone who can help them. For example, in my 2013 New Attitude game, I made CJ Parker a disciple of Damien Sandow, and with Sandow being an over worker who constantly cuts great promos, having CJ involved on his segments has gotten him from an E- to a D- in 4 months on the US. You also have to give the person some nice wins, and depending on the person, you can even give him/her some losses. However, if you really want to get the person over and you're not running a losing streak story of sorts, do limit the amount of losses until the person is credible enough to be kind of bulletproof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Kuma Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I have the same thoughts too. While it's very easy for me to get someone over in a national entertainment promotion (WWE, SWF, AWF, etc.), I'm struggling with a regional entertainment promotion (in this case, the Thunderverse's HCG). While I do get that the limited size of the company limits how people can get over, I wonder if I'm missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lr10540 Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 I tried signing over guys that were part timers (think Iron Shiek- mid 60s pop) to put over the younger guys. I had guys like CM Punk, Randy Orton etc (in their rookie year. signed them at the start of their debut month) going over Shiek in a 5 min match where the rookie dominated and was kept strong on PPV shows, while going over in angles weekly, and still couldn't get but a few ticks of popularity. That's the main reason on the question. I tried having them go over guys that were more over and still didn't get much out of it. I don't know if I'm missing something, or if I'm unlucky trying to push them, or if squash/dominate note type matches only work for brute gimmicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
de knegt Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I have the same thoughts too. While it's very easy for me to get someone over in a national entertainment promotion (WWE, SWF, AWF, etc.), I'm struggling with a regional entertainment promotion (in this case, the Thunderverse's HCG). While I do get that the limited size of the company limits how people can get over, I wonder if I'm missing something. It sounds weird, but it's supposed to be extremely hard to get people over the smaller your company is. It's much more a case of passing along popularity rather than both guys going over in the end. I'll give an example with MAW. You got Vessey and Valentine, arguably the two hottest names in the company. Ves has 40 pop and Valentine has 30 pop... And the two face off in an epic showdown, at the end of the day Valentine wins... This means Vessey loses 5 pop and Valentine earns 5 pop. In the end, there isn't ''more'' popularity between the two of them, they simply transfered some pop to the other one. This happens because in part, MAW only has a pop of say 30 as a company, so getting people over 30 is a chore if not impossible through means other than getting people that are more pop than 30. What this tries to simulate and encourage is a territory style system where you hire a big-ish name for a few months and have him face the guys you want to see go over, like you hire Handsome Stranger for 2-3 months and in that time he jobs to Vessey, Valentine, and maybe say Findlay O'Farraday for good measure. In that time those three get a popularity rub and will get a bigger name off of that rub. That will increase the ''net worth pop'' in MAW, and gives you more of an ability to put other people over by winning against Ves/Val/Fin during actual matches between two MAW talents. The thing is, popularity will always try to be limited to the status quo of the company's popularity. So if MAW has 30, it will try to limit gainable pop to that number unless you have more popular people job to said people. It makes it feel that it's slower to gain pop in smaller companies, and that's true. But the reason people in SWF are quicker to get over, is because there is more popularity to be gained between their current popularity and the ''status quo'' of SWF. There are also more popular people, and there's more exposure to be able to get over as a competitor. It's a way to simulate ''real life''. Because in real life appearing as a midcarder or even jobber on RAW will do a lot more for your popularity than it does fighting in the main event of an ROH card. More people know Fernando/Diego than they do Elgin/Briscoe, despite the latter technically being ''better''. In turn, Cameron Vessey winning against Remo will do him a lot more good than winning against Casey Valentine... But of course, that's a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter8905 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I mostly just use wins and sorylines to get people over. Takes a bit of pre planning to work and for me it helps that I have a large roster. I'll choose my storylines, roughly decide where I want them to end up push wise after the feud. Once that's decided I will just have the people involved in the fueds win matches aganst those on the roster who arne't in a feud. I will have the more over guys who are losing to the guys in the storylines win matches on my B show. I'll try not to job out the guys I plan on using on the next set of storylines. and generally keep them above 60 momentum so it's not too hard to get them hot for the start of their feud. I have basically Jobber to the stars... and jobbers who lose to the jobber to the stars. I don't know if this is the case but i find having the Jobber to the stars involved in high rated Angle helps their momentum aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Kuma Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 It sounds weird, but it's supposed to be extremely hard to get people over the smaller your company is. It's much more a case of passing along popularity rather than both guys going over in the end. I'll give an example with MAW. You got Vessey and Valentine, arguably the two hottest names in the company. Ves has 40 pop and Valentine has 30 pop... And the two face off in an epic showdown, at the end of the day Valentine wins... This means Vessey loses 5 pop and Valentine earns 5 pop. In the end, there isn't ''more'' popularity between the two of them, they simply transfered some pop to the other one. This happens because in part, MAW only has a pop of say 30 as a company, so getting people over 30 is a chore if not impossible through means other than getting people that are more pop than 30. What this tries to simulate and encourage is a territory style system where you hire a big-ish name for a few months and have him face the guys you want to see go over, like you hire Handsome Stranger for 2-3 months and in that time he jobs to Vessey, Valentine, and maybe say Findlay O'Farraday for good measure. In that time those three get a popularity rub and will get a bigger name off of that rub. That will increase the ''net worth pop'' in MAW, and gives you more of an ability to put other people over by winning against Ves/Val/Fin during actual matches between two MAW talents. The thing is, popularity will always try to be limited to the status quo of the company's popularity. So if MAW has 30, it will try to limit gainable pop to that number unless you have more popular people job to said people. It makes it feel that it's slower to gain pop in smaller companies, and that's true. But the reason people in SWF are quicker to get over, is because there is more popularity to be gained between their current popularity and the ''status quo'' of SWF. There are also more popular people, and there's more exposure to be able to get over as a competitor. It's a way to simulate ''real life''. Because in real life appearing as a midcarder or even jobber on RAW will do a lot more for your popularity than it does fighting in the main event of an ROH card. More people know Fernando/Diego than they do Elgin/Briscoe, despite the latter technically being ''better''. In turn, Cameron Vessey winning against Remo will do him a lot more good than winning against Casey Valentine... But of course, that's a no brainer. Yeah, that makes sense. It's a bit annoying, but all I can really do is just hope the promotion becomes more popular and thus increases the limit of the "status quo". I'm too used to getting quick results from too many national promotion saves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lr10540 Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 I generally only play sports entertainment companies to pop > perf, but I find it generally easy. Put them in angles with people more popular than them. Put them in a stable. Have your top guy run a small TV program with them. Have them be the guy that saves an established star from something. Have them degrade your established star. Really it doesn't matter WHAT they do, it matters WHO they do it to or WHO they do it with. Having an angle with Jack Bruce, Eric Eisen, and [insert random new guy here] isn't going to hurt Bruce or Eisen at all and it's going to do wonders for the new guy, especially if you are consistent about it. The only other advice would be to keep their momentum high. You could do that by only booking them in angles that are sure to score high [see the angle advice above] or you could put them in short storylines that they consistently come out looking good in. The storyline doesn't even need to be about them. They could quick hit into a storyline involving some of your top guys. Look great in 2 or 3 segments [plus been seen on TV in angles with these guys] before they disappear from the storyline and move on to something else. An angle or a match that is for sure going to rate significantly below your companies popularity isn't going to do anything for a guy you are trying to build. You need to find creative ways to get these guys on TV and avoid putting them in something that is going to bomb. Is it really that easy in pop companies? Just have them (guys that aren't over) be seen on tv/ppv with guys that are already over and the fans see the nonover guys in a different light, a la Randy Orton & Batista in evolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubb93 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Is it really that easy in pop companies? Just have them (guys that aren't over) be seen on tv/ppv with guys that are already over and the fans see the nonover guys in a different light, a la Randy Orton & Batista in evolution? It isn't going to happen overnight, but yes. That is generally how it works. The tradeoff to this is that [unover guy] is going to hamper your segment ratings in the mean time (unless you CHEAT and make the guy that isn't over not rated...but that is gaming the system and you don't want to be THAT guy.) It isn't going to hamper them enough that it will hurt your over guys though. Plus there are other ways to get this back if it isn't harming their momentum. Book an angle later on the show that doesn't involve the guy who isn't over and are just your stars. You are trying to get that guy a pop rub, not shove him down your fans throats. I don't watch much current day wrestling, but in the old days it wasn't uncommon to see your top star involved in two or three skits and then have match on the same show. Tossing in a young guy in one of those to help with a rub is a pretty good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lr10540 Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 It isn't going to happen overnight, but yes. That is generally how it works. The tradeoff to this is that [unover guy] is going to hamper your segment ratings in the mean time (unless you CHEAT and make the guy that isn't over not rated...but that is gaming the system and you don't want to be THAT guy.) It isn't going to hamper them enough that it will hurt your over guys though. Plus there are other ways to get this back if it isn't harming their momentum. Book an angle later on the show that doesn't involve the guy who isn't over and are just your stars. You are trying to get that guy a pop rub, not shove him down your fans throats. I don't watch much current day wrestling, but in the old days it wasn't uncommon to see your top star involved in two or three skits and then have match on the same show. Tossing in a young guy in one of those to help with a rub is a pretty good idea. What about involving them in matches together like how Batista teamed up with Flair early on? Would the game then give them a rub for that as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKnifed72 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 What about involving them in matches together like how Batista teamed up with Flair early on? Would the game then give them a rub for that as well? Yes... Tag teams and stables are a big tool to get guys over...think of Orton and Batista when they joined Evolution...mid-carders...barely....went on to become two of the top guys in the WWE A main eventer and lower midcarder can beat a tag team of 2 midcarders without the losers taking a morale hit (assuming the main eventer gets the pin) but the lower midcarder will get the popularity boost... (Edit - A wrestler with little or no pop gain go over a much more popular wrestler in a singles match BUT the more popular wrestler gets a major hit to their morale...a big hit to their popularity and a huge hit to their momentum so I wouldn't do that unless you brought a guy in just to "do the job" or you plan on firing someone anyway, might as well milk their popularity first) I usually bring in a fairly over, older, wrestler with good mic skills as a manager/stable leader and pair him up with a few nobodies I want to put over...in my current game, with a created cult level promotion, I have Raven (45 pop) cutting all the promos for his stable consisting of (the former) Festus (rated on menace) and Shaul Guerrero (rated on sex appeal)...their promos usually pull a rating around 55 to 65 so the lower popularity working get a nice boost from that, and when I want to put them over a more over wrestler, they tag with Raven who gets the pin...eventually Festus will turn on Raven, dominate him in a few matches then move on to the midcard...and a new unknown will join...rinse...repeat... Waaaay back when...Ric Flair and Ole Anderson were megastars in the NWA, they formed the Horsemen with Arn and Tully...both stars but nowhere on their level...over the years...Arn, Tully, Barry Windham, Lex Luger and Sting got a huge boost from being a member of or feuding with the Horsemen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhilleagle Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 How do you get jobbers over? I know this is a silly question, but who wants to lose to a jobber? I have this Opener at the moment who is AWESOME, (needs to improve in ring skills and isn't much of an entertainer yet, but I plan to put him with a manager). He's 26 years old so I want to start thinking about getting him up the card and would like to see him as the main man in my fed bu about 30. I think he really IS the next big thing for my company (regional - nearly Cult Britsh fed). However, his max pop is 36 in the UK. I usually use the recommended push, but are there any penalties, or can anything go wrong if I just think "stuff it", and place him in the mid/upper midcard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lr10540 Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 How do you get jobbers over? I know this is a silly question, but who wants to lose to a jobber? I have this Opener at the moment who is AWESOME, (needs to improve in ring skills and isn't much of an entertainer yet, but I plan to put him with a manager). He's 26 years old so I want to start thinking about getting him up the card and would like to see him as the main man in my fed bu about 30. I think he really IS the next big thing for my company (regional - nearly Cult Britsh fed). [ATTACH]5690[/ATTACH] However, his max pop is 36 in the UK. I usually use the recommended push, but are there any penalties, or can anything go wrong if I just think "stuff it", and place him in the mid/upper midcard? I can actually answer this one! Seeing as how he has really good menace and power, book him in squash matches and menace based angles until he is auto-pushed to lower midcard. Afterthat, book him in feuds against midcarders and have him go over. If you want to book him to lose, for whatever reason, book him in a tag match, protect him, and have the partner take the loss. If you want a slightly quicker route, immediately book him in feuds against midcarders, I would say squash matches still (5 minutes with domination booking option), and do that with a couple midcarders. However, if you do that, you're going to damage the losing midcarders in both pop and morale, so if you go with that option, make sure you pick midcarders you no longer want/need in the midcard. Also, when you pair him with a manager, it helped me a lot to have the manager pretty over with great mic skills and I used angles with the manager rated on mic/entertainment and the client based on menace with whoever they did the promo about rated on overness. Whenever they break in to the upper-mid to main event scene, start booking competetive matches that are longer matches and you can still protect him if you'd like. At that point they should be over in a big way, hopefully. That's how I booked Brock in his rookie year. Paired him with Heyman (user character) and he didn't lose for 2 years and counting. He had high 80s to low 90s across the US at the end of his rookie year in a cult fed with high 60s to high 70s pop in the US. I was using the war begins mod for that. Hope I helped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhilleagle Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 That all seems pretty helpful, but as he is currently an opener, who are the initial squash matches to be against? Lower Midcard? Enhancement? I'll get a penalty for having two jobbers work against each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lr10540 Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 If you want to go more gradual, Lower midcard. They're usually bums and do to their spot on the card, the morale hit to your locker room will be very, very small. You also don't get the booking penalty, either. If you aging guys in the lower mid, that would be a good opportunity to job them out and (hopefully) help improve your guys in ring skill on his way up the card. As for your other question in your first post, before I started auto pushing guys, I put his where I wanted, push wise, and if their push exceeded the recommended push, there was a note along the lines of, "the fans aren't buying worker x's push" and I think it hurts the worker. Not 100% sure as this was long, long ago when I manually pushed everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
de knegt Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Also, pretty sure you can set people as lower mid without any repercussions even though their pop is enhancement/opener. It's when you push them midcard or higher (when they're not ready) when the bad things start to happen like ego and all that. So you can always book those new guys a little bit higher at Lower Mid so that you can put them on the card without fans losing their shit about having to see a jobber. You'll still be crippled to one/two segments for him until the fans are annoyed, but it gives you leeway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhilleagle Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Thanks guys, you've all been helpful. I always planned to manually push when I got to cult (or maybe even national), but may decide to start doing it now anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tambourin81 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 It isn't going to happen overnight, but yes. That is generally how it works. The tradeoff to this is that [unover guy] is going to hamper your segment ratings in the mean time (unless you CHEAT and make the guy that isn't over not rated...but that is gaming the system and you don't want to be THAT guy.) If a worker is in a "not rated" role, then they will only get a fraction of the overness as in a rated role anyway, so there's really not much "cheating" going on in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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