Narcizo Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 You got made bankrupt in June? If the promotion was new, it should have a further 12 month leeway to not be bankrupt. Are you sure you set the opening date to be Jan Week 1. 2016? If you have, then I think you've hit a bug. Ah-hah. I'm not sure now you bring it up. And I've deleted the game (and promotion) now. That could explain things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creepshow Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 This must be what he's running into, either that or he's managed to amass an insane amount of debt... I've run 6, maybe 7, shows (it was late, the game isn't currently in front of me) I'm at nearly -$100 in debt and am not yet turning a monthly profit, though sponsorship is looking up. However, I'm still not looking as though I'll be making it out of the hole any time soon. Hoping by the time the bank comes calling I'll be turning a profit. May need to trim my roster and staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxxHexx Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Ah-hah. I'm not sure now you bring it up. And I've deleted the game (and promotion) now. That could explain things. In the editor if you pull up the promotion it will have the date the company opens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bent Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I made a small profit for the first time in my game in july ($98). At that point i was about 11k in debt. I'm in February 2017 now, and just got a positiv balance for the first time, making 3,6k that month. I'm just running one show a month, with 6 wrestlers (including my UC, and a owner who works for free,) a referee and a road agent. I'm quite favourable towards sponsorships and based in the Mid South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creepshow Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I made a small profit for the first time in my game in july ($98). At that point i was about 11k in debt. I'm in February 2017 now, and just got a positiv balance for the first time, making 3,6k that month. I'm just running one show a month, with 6 wrestlers (including my UC, and a owner who works for free,) a referee and a road agent. I'm quite favourable towards sponsorships and based in the Mid South. Am I to understand that the small roster penalty isn't stopping you from gaining popularity or hurting your sponsorships? What I'm *probably* going to do is see my current game out until bankruptcy, and then start a new "rock hard" game, edited down to 0/0/0/0...and take a far, far, more frugal approach until I turn a profit. To be clear, this is to preserve the current save. I'd hate to go a 1.5+ years into the future and then have the entire game world reset on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bent Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I do have 12 people on my roster, i just rotate who I use, and if someone get to moody about not being on a show, I replace them with someone new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlamingred Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Am I to understand that the small roster penalty isn't stopping you from gaining popularity or hurting your sponsorships? What I'm *probably* going to do is see my current game out until bankruptcy, and then start a new "rock hard" game, edited down to 0/0/0/0...and take a far, far, more frugal approach until I turn a profit. To be clear, this is to preserve the current save. I'd hate to go a 1.5+ years into the future and then have the entire game world reset on me. Personally, if I did somehow hit that situation, I'd make up an imaginary investor, and add money which I'd later pay back with interest. I do love my local to global games, but I don't think I'd let myself hit game over if I am having fun with my promotion. I love a challenge, but I wouldn't let rules like this ruin a good narrative - instead I'd learn from the mistakes for the next game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creepshow Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I get that point and if I'm feeling overly attached to the promotion, or insincere about finances, I have been known to cheat my finances...but I'd rather not do that this time around. I'd rather just chalk it up to a failure and try again with a different strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pogo92 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I get that point and if I'm feeling overly attached to the promotion, or insincere about finances, I have been known to cheat my finances...but I'd rather not do that this time around. I'd rather just chalk it up to a failure and try again with a different strategy. I feel similarly. I hate to see all my progress gone, but it helps my immersion if there is a realy sense of danger or punishment for failure. It's like walking a tight rope--It's that much more suspenseful when you're 200 feet over a city block than a safety net. Then again, some people just like walking ropes and don't need or want that suspense. Different strokes for different folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlamingred Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I feel similarly. I hate to see all my progress gone, but it helps my immersion if there is a realy sense of danger or punishment for failure. It's like walking a tight rope--It's that much more suspenseful when you're 200 feet over a city block than a safety net. Then again, some people just like walking ropes and don't need or want that suspense. Different strokes for different folks. Well, there are on,y two instances I normally 'cheat' like this. One is if I am going bankrupt. I've never had this issue at small or local or regional - but did the first time I hit cult. This was back when my experience of the game was a lot lower then now, and I felt the cult jump a little unfair as there wasn't much to prepare you for the implications of that hop (unless you read the strategies in the forum first). So I felt quite justified giving me money to prevent bankruptcy (though I treated it like a loan, and payed back a percentage each year until I could clear the amount - so rather then cheat outright I just gave myself a minor rebuff in some loan interest losses). Touch wood, I've not been in a position of real bankruptcy since, which is why I did the testing of this in the demo. The second instance was when my user character retired through injury... Maybe I should have taken it in the chin, but I was too invested with my user character in hat particular game, that I had to resurrect him. I had him take a two years out of ring (but probably should have had him take longer) before his big return. I don't mind going up and down in sizes, so I haven't cheated with popularity or things like that, excuse the long term implications of size changes up or down are quite minimal in terms of storyline, and that challenge in the growth is what I love. But as I have stated, I like to be flexible and make my own challenges, rather then strict Road to Glory games (as I Normally start at 8 pop to skip most of the small fed stage as I find it too simple). I just wanted to suggest, for particularly those doing the 0/0/0/0 challenge for the first time, is to not go into it too strict. It's fine to go in with the ironman immersion, but as I don't think anyone ever plans to go bankrupt and will do everything to not be in that position anyway - so if you get there, don't feel obliged to restart, instead, just adjust the rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlamingred Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 So, I tested things again following the patch notes suggesting that sponsorship had been adjusted, Month 1: Show 1 - 4: Pop 2 - Estimated Sponsorship $750! (which is lower then my last test, and I am using the same starting save (I copied my data before my original test)... Month 2: Show 5 - 8: Pop 4 - Estimate Sponsorship $3000 (as opposed to nearly 10k) Looks like it's been lowered a bit, should be a bit more of a challenge now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonafide_Bluffa Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 So, I tested things again following the patch notes suggesting that sponsorship had been adjusted, Month 1: Show 1 - 4: Pop 2 - Estimated Sponsorship $750! (which is lower then my last test, and I am using the same starting save (I copied my data before my original test)... Month 2: Show 5 - 8: Pop 4 - Estimate Sponsorship $3000 (as opposed to nearly 10k) Looks like it's been lowered a bit, should be a bit more of a challenge now Is your product favourable towards sponsorship ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlamingred Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Is your product favourable towards sponsorship ? Yes, its the same product which I wrote about in a previous post... Testing is about 1000% quicker to do because of the Auto-Booker. Okay, my shows are comparatively quite bad but when your popularity is between 0-5, a monkey could raise my popularity. I have a product which is more perf>pop, and is favorable towards getting sponsorship. Economy F but the industry is C. Initially 0 Estimated Sponsorship (ES) but rose to... Show 1 - 950 Show 2 - 3400 Show 3 - 3800 Show 4 - 5000 Show 5 - 6000 Show 6 - 8700!? Show 7 - 9200 Show 8 - 10,000 (final Pop in home = 4) I was spending about 4k on workers and 2.5k on each show - so ended up in about 45k debt - but I could probably cut my worker cost to about 2k if I was more picky about who I signed (for this test run, I really wasn't - I was more interested in sponsorship amounts - but I'd still be near 30k debt). The economy meant that I only got 1000 sponsorship money in month 1 and 3000 in month two so, in a better economy (I'll test later) my debt could be removed another 3-6k. This is where it gets interesting though, and will make me want to play 0/0/0/0 for the first time in ages... It looks like taking a first month hit by pushing 4 shows is inevitable - and it would be feasible to spend about 5000 on putting on a show if you are strict with money so -20k to begin. If you cut back to one show a month after that, (and the estimated sponsors met with the actual sponsorship) the next 4 months you could be +1k, +2k,+3k, +5k = 11k back... in month 6 you'd be still about -4k... if you only have 6 months to get out of the red... well, that's incredibly tight! Other notes while doing this test: - Spillover really does start instantly... Was doing shows in Mid-South and by 2 popularity, I already had 1 popularity in surrounding areas. - Even though this is a small company, we still look amateurish in comparison to the local competitions... I didn't think that mattered until regional battles started at local, but it's something which doesn't affect you getting popularity much when you have almost no popularity to begin with. - I say this will have me interested in playing a 0/0/0/0 fed again, but I am probably getting ahead of myself - once I have the strategy sorted mathematically, it'll be a grind again (as again, the only competition is your money - and as my specialty is math, I treat local feds as a math problem rather then anything else - that being said, starting your own fed in a bad economy is likely to be a disaster with the lack in sponsorship... I wonder if it was designed to actually fail - it is certainly realistic, as with the numbers I got in actual sponsorship money, I wasn't going to get out of debt at all until a lot more shows). In fact, it's even the same save file, as I made a copy of the save 3 days before I started the first show... so it started from 0 pop and I did the same things again for two months (only differences is what the autobooker actually booked as I was using it to sim the expected sponsor growth). Even the Economy and Wrestling Industry was the same. The only difference is I started that save on Patch Beta 5, and have now applied the Retail Patch over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creepshow Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 I'm starting to think I'm going to have to take a "loan" from the bank to make this work. My roster is starting to gel and sponsorship $ is starting to grow. (I'm February, and we're finally almost making $1000k per month!) Of course the expenditure can't shrink much more...and I predict it will be at least another year before we're actually turning a month profit. I think without a serious bankroll 0/0/0/0 is impossible to do running 1 show a month. It could be a case of my promotion starting in an area with a horrid industry level (currently 10 and rising). I'm at roughly -$150k now...and I don't see a way out of the red other than bankruptcy. ...still going to play it out until, at minimum, the bankruptcy warnings start coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 I'm starting to think I'm going to have to take a "loan" from the bank to make this work. My roster is starting to gel and sponsorship $ is starting to grow. (I'm February, and we're finally almost making $1000k per month!) Of course the expenditure can't shrink much more...and I predict it will be at least another year before we're actually turning a month profit. I think without a serious bankroll 0/0/0/0 is impossible to do running 1 show a month. It could be a case of my promotion starting in an area with a horrid industry level (currently 10 and rising). I'm at roughly -$150k now...and I don't see a way out of the red other than bankruptcy. ...still going to play it out until, at minimum, the bankruptcy warnings start coming in. I am finding the same thing- started out losing about 9k a month. The sponsorship is slowly growing, but 9 months in I am still running at a loss and with 1 show a month, my pop has not moved up from F- yet. At -80k, and there is no way the revenue will grow enough to overcome the debt in another 9 month and avoid bankruptcy. My industry is a D and falling, economy a C+ and rising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlamingred Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Yes, the beta patch 9 sponsorship seems to have halved the amount of sponsorship roughly, making 0/0/0/0 very difficult now. Again, I don't think it's too bad, but you need the industry and economy on your side now. If it isn't, then as in real life, it's gonna be a very difficult starting the business with no Capital. I like it as a game mechanic. Let's not forget staring a rock hard fed starts you with 10 pop so you have decent sponsor income. What this does mean, for the 0/0/0/0 or RtG challenge, you may have to re-roll your game state to avoid an F/E ish economy or industry. I always wondered how a tiny company managed to make thousands of dollars sponsorship a month for putting on a show which had 50 people come to it, or even if for skipping a month of shows (which now looks like a nessessity in many situations for ensuring you can get back into the black) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creepshow Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 I think my main complaint here, and I posted in the suggestions forum, is the limited amount of popularity you gain despite using workers who are over in your area. I almost feel like if you've got guys on your roster putting out 45s and a show rating of 36, a pop gain of .02 is criminally low. I'm certainly more than willing to play through this, but I just know there's going to come a time where I have to fudge the numbers. I understand 0/0/0/0 is supposed to be hard, but compared to the in-game definition of Rock Hard, this challenge insane if not altogether impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlamingred Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Insane difficulty would be how I would describe it if I was putting a difficulty rating. Negative industry I read costs you 0.5 pop a show, so in reality. If you're gaining 0.2 then you would have been getting 0.7 a show, and sponsorship to match. What would be awesome, would be to have a world difficulty slider which sets the starting Industry and Economy. Or for you to look at all the regions, and select your 0/0/0/0 fed in the area that is most likely to survive (though if you're like me and like to stick with USA or UK, and have little experience with everywhere else, immense ruin can be a little tough) Edit: sorry, read your 0.02 as 0.2. Wow, the industry really is hammering your popularity. Tew2016 - tag line : "you want to mod yourself a challenge! You got it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creepshow Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 actually you just caught a typo...it was supposed to read .2 not .02 So I can only imagine that I'm suffering from a bad industry (which is frustrating as hell, because the economy is in the 90s!) So, if what you're saying is correct, it's more of a problem because of where I'm running and not how I'm running. I could have certainly used .7 pop gains instead of .2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcizo Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 I think the key is the wrestling level in your area. This kind of makes sense. You'd have to be a fool to start a wrestling promotion when no-one is interested in it. I suspect starting a game where you're only going to get 0.2 rises IS impossible. IN my current game I had the good fortune to get an A in wrestling and a D in economy. With a product favourable to Sponsorship in the Tri-States this allowed me to blitz to Small. It took 18 shows to get there which I think means I was pulling +0.8 pop a show. You absolutely do not need studs to improve, my roster was paid 250-480 a show. Logan Wolfsbaine has been a total stud and only cost 250 a show. The Silencer carried the promotion on his back at the start for 450 a show. But all that is irrelevent. The key detail was the 0.8 pop rises. WIthout those this method would not be doable. I'd probably book 8 shows in the first two months and then alternate one show a month with no shows http://i.imgur.com/MR6WY9R.gif May onwards is when we hit Small. Our show ratings took a big hit because I didn't touch our production costs resulting in our shows going from D- to E+ but it didn't matter too much, we still got the 0.8 pop rise per show. We made the move to the 1000 arena in August and I have started relaxing the stringency of the roster and improve our production a bit. I think we'll break even in October - our shows are pretty much paying for themselves now so the sponsorship money reduces our debt. My worry is when the game is going to decide I have to be out of debt. This also means that everyone who works in the company have improved way more than they would in any other small or regional company. It has taxed my inventiveness with booking as it's hard to book such a small roster in so many shows. Hopefully as I make some money I can start actually concentrating on the story rather than keeping costs down and improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlamingred Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 actually you just caught a typo...it was supposed to read .2 not .02 So I can only imagine that I'm suffering from a bad industry (which is frustrating as hell, because the economy is in the 90s!) So, if what you're saying is correct, it's more of a problem because of where I'm running and not how I'm running. I could have certainly used .7 pop gains instead of .2 What is your Wrestling industry? And is it Treding positively (trends in the product screen). That, combined with prestige of the company and company momentum (which both start at zero) are the factors that I know affect Pop gains (outside the show rating). (I also think that the show rating increases pop a slight bit at 6 points above your pop, and increases further the better the show rating, but at some point reaches a ceiling. For example, I think if you put on a show 90 points above your current pop, it's the same gain then if you put on a show 30 points above your current pop (simply because you have awesome wrestling, doesn't mean everyone knows about it, especially if only 50 people are watching the show at a time). Thus, I don't think it's how you're booking it which is causing an issue, it's just you have lots and lots of factors against you - which is the nature of the challenge combined with new game mechanics in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creepshow Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 What is your Wrestling industry? And is it Treding positively (trends in the product screen). That, combined with prestige of the company and company momentum (which both start at zero) are the factors that I know affect Pop gains (outside the show rating). (I also think that the show rating increases pop a slight bit at 6 points above your pop, and increases further the better the show rating, but at some point reaches a ceiling. For example, I think if you put on a show 90 points above your current pop, it's the same gain then if you put on a show 30 points above your current pop (simply because you have awesome wrestling, doesn't mean everyone knows about it, especially if only 50 people are watching the show at a time). Thus, I don't think it's how you're booking it which is causing an issue, it's just you have lots and lots of factors against you - which is the nature of the challenge combined with new game mechanics in 2016. Industry has to be the issue. It's been as low as 7 and is currently 10 and rising. My momentum and prestige are both low, 13 and 3 respectively, but both are trending upwards. This is why I'm leaning towards a "bank bailout" (editing in cash) and then getting rid of it once I'm turning a profit, but I'm not sure how I want to handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creepshow Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 ...although, part of me really wants a true do-over...just choosing a better region and running more conservatively. As mentioned earlier in the thread, if I were to do it I would not start a new save, but instead open as another promotion and edit the stats down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcizo Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Industry has to be the issue. It's been as low as 7 and is currently 10 and rising. My momentum and prestige are both low, 13 and 3 respectively, but both are trending upwards. This is why I'm leaning towards a "bank bailout" (editing in cash) and then getting rid of it once I'm turning a profit, but I'm not sure how I want to handle it. Yeah industry seems way more important than economy. And yeah I think a bank loan is justifiable. It's a game - you should enjoy playing it however you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlamingred Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Yeah industry seems way more important than economy. And yeah I think a bank loan is justifiable. It's a game - you should enjoy playing it however you want. Seconded, if you cannot get the popularity up because the industry is in the toilet, then you equally cannot get the sponsorship either. The mathematics speaks for itself. At about 5k a show cost, my estimate has sponsorship at about $1000 per pop... then you need a minimum of 0.33 pop gain per show to get out of the black in 18 months (and this is done by running 30 shows in month 1 and 2 and then one show a month). Anything less then 0.32, you can't feasibly do using my figures- taking sponsorship alone (unless you run 30 shows a month for longer then two months - which wasn't something I am allotting into my calculations because.. well... who is ever going to book that that shows in a row - though it explains why so many tiny wrestling companies are on the road everyday doing shows - maybe they are trying to get out the red within 18 months by rapidly trying to get popularity in a world which doesn't care about them). At 0.5 pop gain a show, you can easily break even again with 3 shows in month 1, and 1 show evermore (though I have you only coming out of the red in month 18... 4 shows month 1 is still more optimal getting you out in month 17... and there is nothing writh running even mre shows then that in the first two months to stretch the starting sponsorship (most optimal is 30 shows in the first month followed by 1 - but that's putting you over 10 popularity - actually hitting 23) In essence, for doing a fair challenge 0/0/0/0 run, you now kinda need the industry and economy to to be at grade C. The further you move below that, the further you move the game from simply a hard, but complete-able challenge and closer and closer to near impossible, (but, at and above C in both, shouldn't worry you too much if you are relatively conservative). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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