TsuMirren Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="alvarasus" data-cite="alvarasus" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41430" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>He didn't mention Fliesch, The Who, Captain Charisma, Hitman, or any other Current Day Mod maker because there current day. His exact words were Real World Historical modding group. Mammoth is by the way has amazing mods and we support his work fully. I have asked permission to use his work because that's the way it should be. I even cite him in my mod because he does amazing work and borrowed things from his mod.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Exactly, though I have praised Fleisch and The Who in the past and possibly on here also. I'm just being open and honest, fairly cordial actually. I've been told my work is good, all I really see historically from a group are our mods so by mere definition even if they're absolute dog mess they are the best by a modding group. This isn't "someone told me he said...", my words are right here and just need read. Only real issue I have is the attempt to start nonsense between myself and other modders, happens way too often and I'm perfectly capable of doing it myself anyway. </p><p> </p><p> Also, any highlighting of what we do whilst modding is just that. Doesn't need accusations on here or abuse on any other forum. "Hi Patrick, hi pal!" </p><p> </p><p> Good luck to those over on EWB, be it cosmetic aspects of work on mods or fully detailed mod work. I hope your 02 mod is a success, feel free to come ask about Europe or the UK.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genadi Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 <p>A common theme I've seen over the last few pages is </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41430" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>OMGD you guys have a God complex, no one asked you to spend time and resources modding. Why do you keep reminding people how much work you've done to play the victim.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This is so absurd and either purposefully taken out of context to troll or just straight up stupid. Either way I'm baffled as to how this goes unchecked. We didn’t just start talking about all we’ve done out of nowhere to beat our own chests. I find it disturbingly odd people continue to drive that agenda.</p><p> </p><p> <strong>The posts mentioning what we've done for the community were in direct reply to an attack based on lies. It's the equivalent of someone calling you a liar, you point out that you aren't a liar you’ve always told the truth and here’s my history to show that. Then their response is ‘OMGD stop gloating about how you always tell the truth’. It's like a game 14 year old girlfriends play to guilt their boyfriends into head games. </strong></p><p><strong> </strong></p><p> Stop taking comments out of context to fit your warped narrative. I don't know how else I can put it. It's only further derailing an otherwise civil discussion.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41430" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>* Since the Nexus boards were launched Lucas has been paying for their upkeep, we've not once asked for money. Given Adam's conduct and hostility he chose not to continue paying for a site that supports TEW. I asked anyone to provide any good reason why he should to do so. No one has.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I've been clear that consent was withdrawn from some of the mods being hosted, so I've accepted that. Given the reaction from those whose content I was hosting, I took them all down. You can still get in contact if you need me for mod or graphics issues and I'll happily help out as long as you PM me, here or Discord. </p><p> </p><p> Given these mods have been out for about 2 years though, most people will already have them, and nobody has asked for them recently - only a complaint that they were "taken down", despite that person not being after a specific mod.</p><p> </p><p> There is little point of the website without content so will see how things go moving forward. I've spent hundreds literally over the Nexus project to provide a free service for people without ever pestering for donations and being completed ad and spam free. Some are just fine with mediafire links etc but there have been a few grateful for the direct download service and especially the Mod Installer making it simpler to install mods. For that I'm very grateful.</p><p> </p><p> The Discord will remain and I'll stay active there but recent experiences have not made me feel particularly welcome here (yet again), so I may pursue other projects in 2019.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skummy Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="smartman" data-cite="smartman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41430" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>"Screw them, let me have all the mods right now. Intellectual Property be danged." </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Intellectual property? So presumably you're arguing that all of the Mod Squad, and anyone else creating mods, shouldn't be permitted to release mods without seeking permission from the copyright holders of every image used, without seeking express permission from WWE to use their intellectual property? That argument is a non-starter.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41430" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>There were already several forums created exactly like ours, from EWB to TheWho's board and more. EWB is known for having private mods and crapping on GDS diary writers for those who don't know their fun history. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I have no idea where your grudge against EWB comes from, but having posted on there for something in the region of 15 years, I can assure you that the vast majority of people posting there have no idea you even exist, so you can leave your weird persecution complex out of this. </p><p> </p><p> It's also incorrect to use EWB as a board created "exactly like yours" - EWB predates TEW, and predates Adam having anything to do with GDS by many years, it's not comparable. </p><p> You said elsewhere that Adam posts on there as if that's evidence of some conspiracy - Adam's been a member on there since its creation which, again, massively predates this place, because it started out life as the official message board of the EW series. </p><p> </p><p> You seem to have - dating back years - this sense that EWB, or whatever other "boards with secret sections" you keep obliquely referring to are trying to hide things from you or do things in secret, you repeatedly use this as a criticism, then use the same argument as a defence for creating your own site? How does that add up? </p><p> </p><p> And where do you get this bizarre sense that EWB are "secretly" hosting mods for their consumption only? Their modding section isn't a "secret" sub-forum, it's viewable to everyone, so long as you sign up to the board - and that's perfectly acceptable, right? You said so yourself. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41430" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Adam made a post in TEW general days ago which was one of the most disingenuous hypocritical things I've ever read. His intentions were transparent. I pointed out how and why as did others. He asked for the discussion then once confronted with my post chose to delete it and call me bitter not replying to one point. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You keep insisting that Adam's post was "hypocritical" - explain what was hypocritical about it. It all seems perfectly reasonable to me, and presumably to the majority who voted in favour? </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41430" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Was the goal to populate the forum with 15 copies of every mod where people made like 5-50 minor stat changes and uploaded them instead of just keeping them for themselves as they do now? </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This has no bearing in reality whatsoever. People have been making mods for EWR for more than 15 years, and still do so today. That's a game that's easier to mod for than TEW, so had a much wider modding community, but was also open to potential abuse as a result.</p><p> </p><p> However, in all those years, I have <em>never</em> seen a mod released that was just a few minor stats tweaks passed off as a brand new mod. It simply doesn't happen. People will pick pet projects to add to mods - "let's make the Japanese scene better represented", or "let's add a bunch of European wrestlers", but that's always a specific, narrow focus. It's building on work that came before, but never trying to pass itself off as an entirely new creation.</p><p> </p><p> And if anyone <em>did</em> make a handful of tweaks and try and pass it off as their own creation, members of the community would - as Adam has rightly said - be the first to point it out, and vote with their feet. </p><p> The reason The Mod Squad are even embroiled in this debate, and the reason why they can make an argument that they should have been consulted separately (which, again, I feel is elitist, which I'll get back to), is because their mods <em>are</em> of a high quality, and people recognise that, which is why you'll always see this thread on the front page. </p><p> </p><p> Weaker mods drop into obscurity, because someone who would try and get away with just changing a few stats here and there isn't going to have the commitment to do regular updates, to fix things based on recommendations from other members, or to do any real work on the mod to speak of. Discussion will dry up or turn negative, and the thread will drop off the front page. The community will police itself. </p><p> If The Mod Squad are as confident in the quality of their mods as they seem to be, they should be confident to let them speak for themselves.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> This is already a mammoth post, but I'll close by getting back to the point about elitism.</p><p> Adam's initial poll about changing the rules was open to <em>everyone</em>, and that was the right thing to do. To consult privately with The Mod Squad, or anyone else, would be akin to the kind of "secret boards" that Genadi has repeatedly decried elsewhere. And it would be unfair, and, yes, elitist.</p><p> </p><p> Because The Mod Squad might feel like they're exceptional and should be consulted seperately as "modders", but every single one of us who has played the game is a "modder". TEW's Editor is a tool that's free to use by <em>anyone</em> who owns even a <em>demo</em> of TEW 2016 - never mind the cost of subscriptions, programmes and web hosting, to create a mod you don't even need to have paid for the game itself!</p><p> </p><p> This is a tool that literally anyone can use, so it's only fair that consultation the rules of how content created/modified using that tool is open to everyone, not just the select few who have <em>decided</em> that they're better at using it than anyone else. To say anything to the contrary <em>is</em> elitism, there's no other name for it.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genadi Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Skummy" data-cite="Skummy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41430" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I have no idea where your grudge against EWB comes from, but having posted on there for something in the region of 15 years.. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> So much of your attitude and lies spouted make sense now.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Skummy" data-cite="Skummy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41430" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It's also incorrect to use EWB as a board created "exactly like yours" - EWB predates TEW, and predates Adam having anything to do with GDS by many years, it's not comparable. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I suggest you look up the meaning of the word comparison. It most certainly is.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Skummy" data-cite="Skummy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41430" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You said elsewhere that Adam posts on there as if that's evidence of some conspiracy - Adam's been a member on there since its creation which, again, massively predates this place, because it started out life as the official message board of the EW series. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Evidence of some conspiracy? Save your speculation and insight into what double meaning you read into posts for EWB. This is such dribble.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Skummy" data-cite="Skummy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41430" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You seem to have - dating back years - this sense that EWB, or whatever other "boards with secret sections" you keep obliquely referring to are trying to hide things from you or do things in secret, you repeatedly use this as a criticism, then use the same argument as a defence for creating your own site? How does that add up? </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah I know because I've seen them and also witnessed the conduct within that section. The constant insulting of GDS members and in particular diary writers. It's clear where you get this idea of elitism from now you've been transparent about being a long time EWB member. It's good to get agendas out in the open.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Skummy" data-cite="Skummy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41430" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And where do you get this bizarre sense that EWB are "secretly" hosting mods for their consumption only? Their modding section isn't a "secret" sub-forum, it's viewable to everyone, so long as you sign up to the board - and that's perfectly acceptable, right? You said so yourself. <p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Again because I saw it with my own eyes many years ago and exposed it for what it was. The mods being shared weren't in the public section and were taken from GDS modders and tweaked but not before insult to that modder was made. </p><p> </p><p> The rest of your post will probably be deleted as will my references to Adam. The entire discussion is posted in our Discord where things aren't censored to fit a narrative. It's not my job to baby walk you to the truth, if you want to understand it do your own reading it's easily accessible we've invited people to view and discuss it numerous times. If however you just want to further flame this thread out of spite, jealousy, elitism or just some butthurt reaction to your boards being exposed for what they are go right ahead, it seems quite evident that's your intention not civil discourse. Surely mods will ban you for consistently breaking the rules... Surely <img alt=":rolleyes:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> You have once again displayed my point better than I could have with the following...</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41430" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Because The Mod Squad might feel like they're exceptional and should be consulted seperately as "modders", but every single one of us who has played the game is a "modder". TEW's Editor is a tool that's free to use by <em>anyone</em> who owns even a <em>demo</em> of TEW 2016 - never mind the cost of subscriptions, programmes and web hosting, to create a mod you don't even need to have paid for the game itself!</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm going to go to sleep now the cringe and irony has me tired.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Skummy" data-cite="Skummy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41430" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Intellectual property? So presumably you're arguing that all of the Mod Squad, and anyone else creating mods, shouldn't be permitted to release mods without seeking permission from the copyright holders of every image used, without seeking express permission from WWE to use their intellectual property? That argument is a non-starter.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It is a case of one rule for some, another for others which goes for all people creating content on the web, regardless of Fair Use Laws. We’re all well aware that Promotion Wars website was forced to shut for releasing a game with IP content it didn’t own, and it goes to the principle of uploading content on the consent of people who created it (GDPR covers aspects of this as well). So they are all legitimate legal reasons the mods were taken down, though I’ve said above why the content was taken down from my POV. </p><p> </p><p> WRT your long diatribe about EWB Skummy, you seem to be suggesting nobody can create a fan site and everything must be hosted here. Which is ridiculous. OTOH, if you weren’t on EWB you might say it’s elitist you can only get certain mods from there, no? That is, if you’ve even heard of EWB....</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Skummy" data-cite="Skummy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41430" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You keep insisting that Adam's post was "hypocritical" - explain what was hypocritical about it. It all seems perfectly reasonable to me, and presumably to the majority who voted in favour? </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> He did explain. Adam deleted it. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Skummy" data-cite="Skummy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41430" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>However, in all those years, I have <em>never</em> seen a mod released that was just a few minor stats tweaks passed off as a brand new mod. It simply doesn't happen.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It does. Mod threads have literally been deleted on here because they ripped off somebody’s work. It happens in all modding communities across games. Or are you just blind to it?</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Skummy" data-cite="Skummy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41430" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Adam's initial poll about changing the rules was open to <em>everyone</em>, and that was the right thing to do. To consult privately with The Mod Squad, or anyone else, would be akin to the kind of "secret boards" that Genadi has repeatedly decried elsewhere. And it would be unfair, and, yes, elitist.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You neglect <strong>why</strong> Adam made the post. Because the boards are getting less engagement. Most studios who can afford digital managers engage with their content creators to create their digital strategy, not poll the fans. They usually do a lot more for their content creators as well, but this does seem highly selective on here for reasons I’m not privy to. </p><p> </p><p> I’m not responding to the rest of your post as you’ve made lots of things up in an incoherent rant that doesn’t seem to have a point other than being argumentative and slinging mud. </p><p> </p><p> You also have little idea into the inner workings of how we construct our mods, a lot of that made possible by myself and why so many mods were able to be upgraded and improved for 2016 so quickly. </p><p> </p><p> Posts here are already being deleted for these reasons and you’re not helping with your destructive tone. </p><p> </p><p> It’s worth being appreciative towards people doing things for you so you don’t have to, rather than act entitled and holier-than-thou with these nonsense Scummy posts (to lack a better phrase). We’re all a community here and poor tone will just turn people away, casuals and potential mod makers alike. </p><p> </p><p> We’re happy to discuss with you over Disc or PM if you like and can keep it civil. </p><p> </p><p> Cheers.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justtxyank Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 <p>So disappointing to see this nonsense flare up again over and over. </p><p> </p><p> The misconception of what the mod squad is perplexes me. The idea that Genadi and I agree on stats or even the core basics of modding is insulting. I mean, HE puts Ted Turner as the owner of WCW in his mods instead of Eric Bischoff as CEO! <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/mad.png.69834f23b9a8bf290d98375f56f1c794.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> He doesn't even like Stan Hansen FFS!</p><p> </p><p> The Mod Squad has been great for GDS. Prior to that group coming together we were barely seeing any new mods. The group collaboration is the only reason people were able to stay motivated to finish mods and get help testing issues, cleaning up missing regions, etc. My mods will continue for 2020 hopefully if I get motivated again, regardless any rule changes, but it will be a sad thing for GDS if we lose the collaborative effort of the mod squad. The number of mods and quality of those years has improved dramatically. By quality I'm not suggesting prior mods were "bad" they just weren't as complete. Prior to help from the mod squad I was only able to cobble together basic info on European/British wrestling. Those regions exist in my game ONLY because of the work of TsuMirren. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I barely consider myself a member because I didn't contribute to most of their work, but I post in solidary with them because I appreciate the hard work and effort they have put in to modding this game. Thousands and thousands of messages back and forth dedicating stupid hours to getting this game to play well and then many of the modders barely playing because of burn out when they are done...</p><p> </p><p> I think you guys really underappreciate how good for TEW the mod squad has been and you'll miss them when they are gone and you don't get new mods for 2020 for many of those years that are close to complete. </p><p> </p><p> It's sad to me that you'd rather have a cheap port of Hive's 94 where someone ports it over cleans it up a little and releases it instead of Hive redoing it because you are angry about people wanting "control."</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek B Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 <p>Temporarily closed. Again. For the same reasons as always.</p><p> </p><p> Leaving Adam to deal with it though, I'm not touching this.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ryland Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 <p>Thank you to the group of moderators who handled this thread while I was away. We've had a lengthy discussion about how to handle this situation and we've decided on the following.</p><p> </p><p> Genadi is banned from the forums. We want to thank him for the excellent mod work he has put out for years, but he could have been banned thirty times over at this point for a wide variety of GDS forum policy breaches. Most of the work that goes into looking after the GDS forums has been centered on The Mod Squad, with Genadi central in the majority of that work. While we respect his work, we can no longer allow this to be the case so he is now banned.</p><p> </p><p> In addition, TsuMirren will also no longer be welcome here, as he is also central to the continuing drama on these forums. We would like to thank him for his sterling mod work over the years, and there is no doubt that he has put an immense amount of time and effort into mod making, but the situation on the forums has become untenable and will not be allowed to continue.</p><p> </p><p> These are decisions that have not been taken lightly, and I am aware that this may cause some posters and mod makers to leave the community. But rather than put a band aid over an open wound, I felt it would be better to create a clean slate and rebuild, than have to come back in three months and deal with a similar situation all over again as has been the case in recent years. From the conversations I've had by PM this week, most people understand that this is likely to be the best solution available although I understand that there is no outcome that can please everyone. I hope that from this point on people can visit the GDS forums to talk about the games they are playing and to enjoy themselves as part of a fun community.</p><p> </p><p> This thread will remain locked in future. Any of the Mod Squad members who are planning to remain on the board are free to open a new thread and make a clean start if they wish. GDS thanks you for your contributions to the community and has no issue with you having your own community and forum on which to work on and release anything TEW related.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek B Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 <p>As an extra note from me. When I have time after Xmas I'm going to be going through this thread and talking to people about events that have transpired. For those on the Wrestling Nexus Discord, thank you for your time and for talking with me about ways to improve things. This goes for everyone in the Mod Squad and everyone else in the community too.</p><p> </p><p> By the New Year I hope to have something set up to help make sure no situations ever end up as bad as this again and to provide as much support for the modding community and the larger GDS community as possible. If you have any questions or suggestions, please send them my way via PM and I'll do what I can to get the best out of this. I may take at least a few days to get back to any messages due to my real life work schedule being super busy (retail at Xmas, yay!) but I'll to everything as quickly as I can.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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