1994: Clash of The Titans

[Gungner]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hive" data-cite="Hive" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41951" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Because they ran Clash of The Champions 3 times per year. And if I don't include them as PPVs, the AI will make up completely random PPVs instead. So while it's not 100 % realistic to have them as PPVs, it's better than seeing the AI create "<strong>WCW Big Time Smash" and "WCW Powertime!" PPVs instead.</strong><p> </p><p> In other words: we cannot achieve full realism, but I feel the current setup comes closest. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> To be honest, that DOES sound like WCW PPV names <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Beejus]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hive" data-cite="Hive" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41951" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>They are set as a team already. Don't know what this is about.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's because they aren't set as ECW teams in the editor, just as "None". They list as a team, but aren't active in the promotion without being specifically activated. Other teams like this are The Nasty Boys in WCW, Steiner Brothers in NJPW, and in the WWF the Bushwhackers, RNR Express, and Heavenly Bodies. If memory serves, the RNR and Bodies aren't active in SMW either. The game just doesn't recognize that two people in a company who have a preset team were already teaming, it acts like they were two guys from a previous active team who are just milling around a company's singles divisions. The only way to fix that so that all teams who are active are active in each company to start as well as being able to team outside of a given company is to set up a separate file for them in the editor; i.e. The Pitbulls and then The Pitbulls ECW, like how yank did a slew of teams in Rising Storms.</p><p> </p><p> Something else that warrants noting. You have the CEO setup going for WCW. They probably should be set as owned by Turner Broadcasting in that case. Unless you tested it and that idea backfired.</p><p> </p><p> Also, I would dare set Bobby Heenan to color commentator only as well as no house shows in his contract. His biggest perk when going to WCW was the lighter schedule, and that would be the easy way to accommodate that sort of thing.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Gungner" data-cite="Gungner" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41951" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>To be honest, that DOES sound like WCW PPV names <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> I thought the same thing <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Hive]

<p>I'm not adding every single tag team for every single promotion. I'd rather live with the AI making a big deal out of teaming them up together, then.</p><p> </p><p>

As for ownership of WCW, I could have sworn I had that in place already. Don't know what happened, but it's back in for the next version.</p><p> </p><p>

Good point about Heenan, I'll include that suggestion.</p>

[TsuMirren]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hive" data-cite="Hive" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41951" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm not adding every single tag team for every single promotion. I'd rather live with the AI making a big deal out of teaming them up together, then.<p> </p><p> As for ownership of WCW, I could have sworn I had that in place already. Don't know what happened, but it's back in for the next version.</p><p> </p><p> Good point about Heenan, I'll include that suggestion.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Teams is another Adamism that needs fixed. The user doing it takes seconds though.</p>

[smartman]

Since we're on the subject of tag teams, this has been occurring in other mods too. Sometimes, the team's name doesn't show up as the default when you click to name them even when they show up on the wrestlers' relationship. For instance, playing as WCW, the Heavenly Bodies II (Pritchard/Del Ray) shows up when adding them (after signing them btw), but Heavenly Bodies I (Tom/Candido) doesn't. Same thing with Vader & Bam Bam and a few others. Is that a mod setting where they're being set to a fed so they don't appear? It's just weird when it happens, certainly nothing earth shattering just would like to find out.

 

Also, was Ric Flair really the figurehead of WCW before Hogan? Yes, he holds the title, but they'd given that spot to Sting in 90-91 without really booting him from that spot. If they hadn't signed Hogan, I'm 100% sure that Sting would have won the title back from him sooner rather than later. I could see Flair being angry with them signing Hogan so his morale hit should stay, just for a different reason. (Btw, the only way to be guaranteed to get rid of that for any ME/big contract person is to go in and drop their salary below $10k then give them the bonus. For fairness, then deduct the remaining amount of their salary from your bank account)

 

Another curiosity, what was the cause of Flair and Dusty having a negative relationship in the game? I just ask because Dusty just turned 14 people against Flair after one show. Also, you might want to set Flair to decline in 97-99 so you don't start up the game with him just starting to decline all by random chance. Again, nothing earth shattering as he's so high up that even on decline he's amazing, but some people might get frustrated when that pops up, especially since it is hidden by the other old fogies (I had to put Funk as a road agent to see it with the default roster; all of them should be there btw). He didn't really start getting worse until the end of WCW.

 

As for the backstage, I'm not having any problems. Granted, Hogan is my UC, I have a 7 leadership, and I gave them everything but Travel and Hotel to get my 100 rating. And personally, I hate a network having ownership of the company because then I have to go back in and start a new game because I forget to check, so I'm happy with how it was in this version. Is the AI still horribly stupid on TV deals? I thought that was the main reason people did that in the first place as they'd keep them on the air. Honestly, with 5 year deals, I'd be fine just setting them to that and foregoing company control. Just put Ted as owner/CEO.

[Mattywood]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Flair one of the guys giving the thumbs up to signing Hogan?

[alvarasus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Flair one of the guys giving the thumbs up to signing Hogan?

 

He is the reason they were able too. Hogan told Bischoff he wanted his program with Ric Flair said hell yes. It just didn't go down as originally discussed between the three because Hogan didn't want to lose. It was suppose to go Hogan win the title, Flair wins it then finally Hogan wiins it in the rubber match.

[mrwhippy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="smartman" data-cite="smartman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41951" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Since we're on the subject of tag teams, this has been occurring in other mods too. Sometimes, the team's name doesn't show up as the default when you click to name them even when they show up on the wrestlers' relationship. For instance, playing as WCW, the Heavenly Bodies II (Pritchard/Del Ray) shows up when adding them (after signing them btw), but Heavenly Bodies I (Tom/Candido) doesn't. Same thing with Vader & Bam Bam and a few others. Is that a mod setting where they're being set to a fed so they don't appear? It's just weird when it happens, certainly nothing earth shattering just would like to find out.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Some team names are promotion-specific. Vader & Bam Bam Bigelow would only be called Big, Bad and Dangerous in NJPW.</p>

[Hive]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="smartman" data-cite="smartman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41951" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Since we're on the subject of tag teams</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> mrwhippy explained it quite nicely. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41951" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Also, was Ric Flair really the figurehead of WCW before Hogan?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'd say that he was, yes. You don't have to hold the title to be the figurehead, and I'd say that Flair was always the main guy, the main attraction, of WCW untill Hogan's arrival.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41951" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Another curiosity, what was the cause of Flair and Dusty having a negative relationship in the game?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I've read in multiple places that there was heat between the two. In fact, Dusty was a major c*nt towards Flair in the early years. Flair describes many nasty situations in his book.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41951" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Also, you might want to set Flair to decline in 97-99 so you don't start up the game with him just starting to decline all by random chance.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I thought about that, but was he really as good in 1994 as he was in 1984? He was beginning to show some decline already in 1994 in my opinion. And even with decline, he's still an extraordinary wrestler.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41951" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And personally, I hate a network having ownership of the company because then I have to go back in and start a new game because I forget to check, so I'm happy with how it was in this version. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Networks owning companies didn't work in earlier versions of the game, because it prevented them from doing tv deals with others. This time around, it should work much more smoothly though. What is your issues with the concept currently?</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Matt Shannon" data-cite="Matt Shannon" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41951" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Flair one of the guys giving the thumbs up to signing Hogan?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> He was. He even called Hogan on behalf of Bischoff, setting up a meeting. That doesn't mean that he was happy about being replaced as #1 guy in WCW, though.</p>

[Gungner]

Is there a reason you replaced Time Warner with Viewer's Choice as WCW's PPV carrier?

[Hive]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Gungner" data-cite="Gungner" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41951" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Is there a reason you replaced Time Warner with Viewer's Choice as WCW's PPV carrier?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> A mistake.</p>

[justtxyank]

<p>Couple of notes:</p><p> </p><p>

1) Media group ownership works fine in this version. You can negotiate with broadcasters that don't compete with one of the ones in your media group. </p><p> </p><p>

2) PPV is tricky. The game's model doesn't reflect real ppv distribution. I think WCW still distributed ppv through Turner Premier at this point which was just an arm of Turner that negotiated ppv deals with the cable systems. They didn't drop the Turner Premier shell until later in the 90s if I'm correct, but it doesn't really matter because the game world doesn't account for the way distribution is really handled.</p>

[smartman]

<p>Ugh...let me try to post this again today instead of last night due to my internet being worse than a Mark Henry match.</p><p> </p><p>

I hadn't seen anything in the Dev notes about Media Companies. With that being my main issue, then I have no problem with them anymore. I hated being limited to one group of networks. So yay!</p><p> </p><p>

Again, we could debate Sting vs Flair as figurehead, but if Hogan was brought in with Flair's approval, exactly why should he have a morale hit? I mean he would have known that Hogan would become the main person because he was freaking Hogan.</p><p> </p><p>

The relationship thing might need tweaking though. A negative relationship in 16 means they're immediately going to turn half the locker room against the other person. So being mean to someone way back in the early 80's isn't really reflected well by a strong dislike relationship in the game. A strong dislike would mean two people are basically at war with each other without really punching each other (that's hatred). There's plenty of both to have in the mod, but I don't think the Dusty-Flair relationship fits. If it is two ships passing in the night, then it should be neutral vs anything else (hey, maybe an animosity option for the next version). Maybe a simmering tension one?</p><p> </p><p>

And yes, Flair might not have been as good in 94 as he was in 84, but wrestling had changed in those 10 years too. He didn't have to bring it for 45-60 minutes 5 nights a week. But, was he at the point where fans noticed he wasn't as good anymore? I'd say not in 94. Certainly by 99 though as that final match with Sting in 01 was only good because Sting carried him. That's why I suggested 97 (plus not many people are going to get that far and if they do, Flair being on decline won't matter as Pillman/Austin/etc will be headlining things). Again, not a huge deal as he'll still be awesome on the just starting time decline.</p>

[Hive]

I have been convinced and will remove the Flair morale hit. I'll consider the part about the strong dislikes for some relationships.

[soxfan93]

<p>While we're on the subject (and since I haven't been able to get a single question answered in the new and "improved" SQ thread) I'm hoping it's cool to ask here, and if not, Hive, I apologize and I'll delete it.</p><p> </p><p>

Can someone briefly explain time decline to me? If I start a game and Hogan (for example) isn't on there, what does that translate to? Approximately how many years can I reasonably expect him to maintain his skills? What about the "recently, there have been signs" message? Is he still 3 years away from getting penalized in any way, shape, or form?</p><p> </p><p>

I've never gotten further than a year and a half, and always pushed young guys, so I never really paid attention to it. With the new features, I want to make a few legitimate, long-running games this time around.</p><p> </p><p>

Thank you, and I certainly hope this isn't seen as an attempt to hijack your thread, Hive. Just a loyal fan trying to learn a few things. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Hive]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="soxfan93" data-cite="soxfan93" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41951" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Thank you, and I certainly hope this isn't seen as an attempt to hijack your thread, Hive. Just a loyal fan trying to learn a few things. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> No it's fine, I'd actually like to know as well. Would help me figure out whether to actually listen to smartman and manually delay the decline of guys like Flair and Sting. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> It depends on how drastic the decline effects their skills in this game. If anyone knows, I'd love to hear it. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[cultstatus]

According to the latest Legends with JBL episode, Booker T said Sid was a mentor to him and his brother and brought them into WCW. Might want to add that relationship into the game.

[Hive]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="cultstatus" data-cite="cultstatus" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41951" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>According to the latest Legends with JBL episode, Booker T said Sid was a mentor to him and his brother and brought them into WCW. Might want to add that relationship into the game.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Man, that's so freaky. I had to read up on it to confirm it, as it sounded so unreal. Haha. Thanks, I'll add it.</p>

[smartman]

<p>The way I understand time decline is that you get a negative note once they're on time decline. The severity of that note depends on what level of decline they're on. So someone that has just started on it won't be hampered too badly (again, Flair put up a 100 in-game wrestling rating, in an equal fed, in a Sting/Hogan vs Flair/Arn tag match but his stats are godly, with lesser beings you couldn't do that), but someone with a higher level of decline and not great stats is going to really put on lousy matches against non-ME.</p><p> </p><p>

If someone isn't pre-set with a time decline age, then the game rolls to see if they are on time decline. If they don't start on the list, then it could be a year, five years, or two months from now as the roll picks the age. You just don't know as you're at the mercy of the randomizer same as their destiny roll and being able to use the going all out note.</p><p> </p><p>

The bigger issue with time decline people, which I don't think has been tweaked/fixed, is with how the AI handles time decline workers. A bunch of people posted, and in some of the games I've played I suspect it is true based upon releases, is that the AI dumps anyone on time decline, quickly if on PPA and when their contract comes up if written. So, if you're looking to add someone older and the AI doesn't come in and compete, likely he's on time decline.</p><p> </p><p>

Oh, and speaking of older wrestlers, the only way I could get Piper to push as in-ring, even though he rolled great on the time decline issue was to bump him to Usually on Wrestler. He defaulted to Authority Figure despite the Usually on Occasional Wrestler. That might have been due to having a pretty sizeable roster, but that's not good for WWF because they need him to have a chance in the National Battle. That might have been why WWF didn't try for him either.</p>

[Hive]

I fixed Piper and have added set decline ages for certain big name workers.

[Henderson]

Good lord, guys....If there's a particular thing in the mod that you don't like (I.E: Relationships), then just change it in the editor rather than telling the maker he's wrong in his opinion.

 

While Sting was a main player in WCW and the most popular babyface, Ric Flair by and large was the figurehead of the company. Hogan's press conference alone turned him into the new figurehead. I'd argue this continued until Goldberg became WCW's new figurehead in 1998. As much as I like Sting, I can't ever see where he was the figurehead of WCW. Even when Flair was gone I'd say Vader was the figurehead of the company then.

 

As for Sid mentoring Harlem Heat, yeah, it makes sense. I believe it wasn't long after they debuted in WCW they paired them with Sid. This was during the infamous Shockmaster debut.

[Hive]

Good lord, guys....If there's a particular thing in the mod that you don't like (I.E: Relationships), then just change it in the editor rather than telling the maker he's wrong in his opinion.

 

I stand by that my relationships are accurate - but given that TEW 2016 has much more harsh effects from relationships than 2013, it did make sense to tone some of them down a notch.

 

While Sting was a main player in WCW and the most popular babyface, Ric Flair by and large was the figurehead of the company. Hogan's press conference alone turned him into the new figurehead. I'd argue this continued until Goldberg became WCW's new figurehead in 1998. As much as I like Sting, I can't ever see where he was the figurehead of WCW. Even when Flair was gone I'd say Vader was the figurehead of the company then.

 

Yeah. I removed the morale penalty because it could be argued that Flair was quite fine with it in real life and even helped facilitate the deal - but I stand by that he was figurehead, and not Sting. And that's coming from someone who's a huge Sting mark.

 

As for Sid mentoring Harlem Heat, yeah, it makes sense. I believe it wasn't long after they debuted in WCW they paired them with Sid. This was during the infamous Shockmaster debut.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about them partnering during the Shockmaster debacle. I'd hate to be the guy who came up with that gimmick...

[smartman]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Henderson" data-cite="Henderson" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41951" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Good lord, guys....If there's a particular thing in the mod that you don't like (I.E: Relationships), then just change it in the editor rather than telling the maker he's wrong in his opinion.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Can people please just read what I post without inserting words and intent that I didn't? I <strong>ASKED</strong> him why Dusty and Flair had a negative relationship, and then I stated what negative relationships do in the game since that's one of the biggest changes from 13 to 16. Considering this is a legendary mod dating back to TEW10, suggesting some of the relationships needed to be looked at to have the desired result for his mod is reasonable imho. I never in any of my posts said a relationship was wrong and threw a tantrum about it.</p><p> </p><p> I hate changing anything in a mod because I know how much work goes into making one of them (and he's doing 3) so I <strong>ASK</strong> the reason(s) behind a few things along with pointing things out the mod maker might want to tweak based on what the game does (the mod and the game are two separate things). If anyone doesn't want to change things, I go right along playing the mod as is with very, very few exceptions.</p><p> </p><p> But I'm beyond sick and tired with having my words parsed and intent invented unlike any other person on the board. It's been going on since the start of this board to the point that I can't even say 80% of what everyone else can without getting slammed for what I do say.</p>

[Hive]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="smartman" data-cite="smartman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41951" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>(and he's doing 3)</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> 4, actually, but nevermind that. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> Also: you're welcome to post any feedback on my mods you feel is relevant. I can't promise you that I'll always follow it, but I'll always listen.</p>

[Satyr24]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hive" data-cite="Hive" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41951" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>4, actually, but nevermind that. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /><p> </p><p> Also: you're welcome to post any feedback on my mods you feel is relevant. I can't promise you that I'll always follow it, but I'll always listen.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> <img alt=":eek:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/eek.png.0e09df00fa222c85760b9bc1700b5405.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> what 4?</p><p> I ask seeing as im really really really enjoying your cott mod</p>