monele Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 So, in my current game, I've been manually pushing as best I can, using the recommendation as a guide, not an obligation. But I'm starting to wonder if there's even any point to micro-managing it. That said, what is Push? What does it really represent? What are its effects? What's I've noticed so far: * When I started the company with very few workers, push recommendations went a certain way. Once I hired more workers, push recommendations were very different. I'm guessing push is relative to your whole roster, not just one person's stats. * What's the recommendation based on then? Relative Popularity? Momentum? Does it depend on Product? * I wanted Opener and Enhancement Talents so my Lower Midcarders would still have someone to beat. Problem is, nearly no one gets recommended for these pushes. * No worker has been okay with being Enhancement Talent so far. Opener is a minimum, and still, recommendation and their own wish is Lower Midcarder. If push is all relative, whoever's the "worst one" should be Enhancement, right? * I see that recommendations change even when the roster doesn't (at least I think?)... Are pushes meant to be an everchanging thing, thus justifying the Auto Push button? * So far, workers always seem to ask for the recommended push. Is it ever different? Unreasonable worker wants higher, modest worker wants lower? * I haven't really tried extremes yet but... does a Push only decide acceptable match length and who can (reasonably) beat whom kayfabe-wise? Also I've seen a thread or two where people say they push higher than recommended. Still, this seems arbitrary. Is a worker's "worth" to the audience really based on something the company decides? I can see how that might work, but I also know, IRL, I won't like a wrestler unless they show some skills and personality, so just pushing the hell out of someone doesn't seem sufficient. As is, I get the feeling the game doesn't leave a lot of room for creativity/choice. Either you go for recommended Push, or you're going to annoy some workers... or make them conceited? Or should I only use low pushes on humble workers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lois lily Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Auto push all the way for me. The more you use enhancement talent they will eventually move up to opener etc. I've never bothered trying to set pushes myself, as the game seems to do a good job of doing it automatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d12345 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 <p>The reason for manual pushes for me: pushing a guy one role under can help lessen their ego. Over pushing a guy can inflate their ego.</p><p> </p><p> If you've got a locker room cancer who is over, it will help your backstage rating if they're pushed as an Upper Midcarder as oppose to a Main Eventer.</p><p> </p><p> If I want a none over undercarder to stack up some wins I may push them immediately to Lower Midcarder so they can have tv matches against enhancement talents to get wins.</p><p> </p><p> If guys are moving up the card to fast for your taste, have them lose a bunch or bury them in wins!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Avalanche Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lois lily" data-cite="lois lily" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42490" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Auto push all the way for me. The more you use enhancement talent they will eventually move up to opener etc. I've never bothered trying to set pushes myself, as the game seems to do a good job of doing it automatically.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah, same here. On some rare occasion I have raised someone's push one step when I knew that another worker would be annoyed about losing to someone with a much lower push than themselves, so I might have raised a midcarder to upper midcard to placate that star concerned about protecting their own status.</p><p> </p><p> I think most of the time you should look at push as a consequence of your other actions, not as an indicator of how they should be treated. If you book a wrestler to win, win win, their push is going to be a reflection of that. You (normally) don't need to indicate your intentions by raising or lowering their push - they are going to notice anyway.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monele Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 <p>So, Push is kind of like the "current rankings", kayfabe-wise?</p><p> It's interesting that in spite of being able to pick it, it's really something that's controlled indirectly through booking. But I think I'm starting to understand.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="monele" data-cite="monele" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42490" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So, Push is kind of like the "current rankings", kayfabe-wise?<p> It's interesting that in spite of being able to pick it, it's really something that's controlled indirectly through booking. But I think I'm starting to understand.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> More popular workers should be near the top of the card. Your product and the workers' styles are the next things taken into consideration. A technician will autopush lower than a Regular Wrestler or Entertainer in a sports entertainment promotion unless he's significantly more popular than them.</p><p> </p><p> For example, in WWF if Bret Hart is set as a technician and his average popularity is B. You also have Diesel who is an entertainer and his average popularity is B-. Diesel will be considered higher on the totem pole than Bret would be because his style compliments the promotion he works for.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LigerLiger Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 <p>* When I started the company with very few workers, push recommendations went a certain way. Once I hired more workers, push recommendations were very different. I'm guessing push is relative to your whole roster, not just one person's stats.</p><p> <strong>Yes.Let's say you have five main eventers.You hire someone more popular than them.The least popular of the five may fall in push to Upper Mid-Carder.</strong></p><p> </p><p> * What's the recommendation based on then? Relative Popularity? Momentum? Does it depend on Product?</p><p> <strong>Popularity and I believe Charisma and Star Quality are taken into account</strong></p><p> </p><p> * I wanted Opener and Enhancement Talents so my Lower Midcarders would still have someone to beat. Problem is, nearly no one gets recommended for these pushes.</p><p> <strong>Use the filter to get unenployed workers wich are at most unknown in your area.They should be cheap and will autopush to ET</strong></p><p> </p><p> * No worker has been okay with being Enhancement Talent so far. Opener is a minimum, and still, recommendation and their own wish is Lower Midcarder. If push is all relative, whoever's the "worst one" should be Enhancement, right?</p><p> <strong>The Least popular one should.</strong></p><p> </p><p> * I see that recommendations change even when the roster doesn't (at least I think?)... Are pushes meant to be an everchanging thing, thus justifying the Auto Push button?</p><p> <strong>If someone beats another one more popular than them they might raise in push whereas the other one lowers</strong></p><p> </p><p> * So far, workers always seem to ask for the recommended push. Is it ever different? Unreasonable worker wants higher, modest worker wants lower?</p><p> <strong>Egoistical workers will ask to be pushed higher than they should.I've never seen someone asking to be pushed lower than they should,though</strong></p><p> </p><p> * I haven't really tried extremes yet but... does a Push only decide acceptable match length and who can (reasonably) beat whom kayfabe-wise?</p><p> <strong>If you push someone too higher than they should they will probably become more of a negative influence with time.For the Kayfabe-Wise beating,even if you push a guy with,say,E pop as Main Eventer and one with,say,B as ET the latter will win if you don't decide a winner.Else the later will be unhappy to be beaten because he is more popular.Pushes don't decide who beats who,popularity does.Pushes also affect match lenghts penalties according to time,I believe.</strong></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d12345 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="monele" data-cite="monele" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42490" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So, Push is kind of like the "current rankings", kayfabe-wise?<p> It's interesting that in spite of being able to pick it, it's really something that's controlled indirectly through booking. But I think I'm starting to understand.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> No it is not. Push heavily factors in the worker's personality.</p><p> </p><p> The example I gave recently was in my TCW game. Edd Stone has popularity across the U.S. of 88. He is OK with being pushed as a Midcarder. Alduous Blackfriar has pop across the U.S. of an average of 60. He wants to be pushed as an Upper Midcarder.</p><p> </p><p> Personality can have extreme effects on required push.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romans_Brass_Shovel Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="d12345" data-cite="d12345" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42490" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>No it is not. Push heavily factors in the worker's personality.<p> </p><p> The example I gave recently was in my TCW game. Edd Stone has popularity across the U.S. of 88. He is OK with being pushed as a Midcarder. Alduous Blackfriar has pop across the U.S. of an average of 60. He wants to be pushed as an Upper Midcarder.</p><p> </p><p> Personality can have extreme effects on required push.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Screw Blackfriar. Gave him a Drag Queen gimmick and pushed him to the moon in two years. Then he comes out and says he's carrying the company on his back. So I jobbed him out until he asked for his release. I denied him twice, so he's been having to sit out his contract. I refuse to let him get work with the pop I built until I contractually cannot stop him anymore.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monele Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 <p>Thanks everyone for the details! I'm learning lots and was definitely not looking at pushes the right way.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Liger!Liger!" data-cite="Liger!Liger!" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42490" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> Use the filter to get unenployed workers wich are at most unknown in your area.They should be cheap and will autopush to ET</p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think I tried this, but I may have unconsciously gravitated towards the best of these anyway. I guess I have a hard time hiring workers with "Weak" stats, even to be squashed <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />... I'll try to be stronger.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42490" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>For the Kayfabe-Wise beating,even if you push a guy with,say,E pop as Main Eventer and one with,say,B as ET the latter will win if you don't decide a winner.Else the later will be unhappy to be beaten because he is more popular.Pushes don't decide who beats who,popularity does.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Okay, that's really good to know. Means forced pushes might help a bit, but won't make implausible wins suddenly OK to the audience (or workers).</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="d12345" data-cite="d12345" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42490" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The example I gave recently was in my TCW game. Edd Stone has popularity across the U.S. of 88. He is OK with being pushed as a Midcarder. Alduous Blackfriar has pop across the U.S. of an average of 60. He wants to be pushed as an Upper Midcarder.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I wonder, is the recommendation the same though? Sounds like what the worker wants, but not what he should be. It <em>is</em> interesting that people's ego can create these gaps.</p><p> That said, according to what others have said, I'm guessing it would make more sense to push Stone as Upper Midcard or Main Eventer (depends on company size and the rest of the roster, right?) and Blackfriar as Mid?</p><p> Assuming one did that, what would be the effects? I take it Blackfriar wouldn't be happy, and Stone would be really pleased. What about the audience side of things (ratings)? Would such a push and Stone beating Blackfriar be more what the audience expects, thus a better rating?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Romans_Brass_Shovel" data-cite="Romans_Brass_Shovel" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42490" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Screw Blackfriar. Gave him a Drag Queen gimmick and pushed him to the moon in two years. Then he comes out and says he's carrying the company on his back. So I jobbed him out until he asked for his release. I denied him twice, so he's been having to sit out his contract. I refuse to let him get work with the pop I built until I contractually cannot stop him anymore.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Remind me not to get on your bad side <img alt=";)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent_Thunder Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I'll also add that if you need jobbers, you can always hire local talent to one night only deals, like how most promotions do jobbers these days. Who cares if he gets squashed in 5 min, your fans aren't going to see him again for months if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monele Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Silent_Thunder" data-cite="Silent_Thunder" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42490" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'll also add that if you need jobbers, you can always hire local talent to one night only deals, like how most promotions do jobbers these days. Who cares if he gets squashed in 5 min, your fans aren't going to see him again for months if at all.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I've used local hires, but 1) one of them was so good I've contracted him since, 2) there aren't hundreds of locals waiting to be squashed, so I'd get repeats real fast (playing in the Mid West, maybe it has something to do with it)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LigerLiger Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="monele" data-cite="monele" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42490" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>2) there aren't hundreds of locals waiting to be squashed, so I'd get repeats real fast (playing in the Mid West, maybe it has something to do with it)</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> For Immersion my local jobbers always use masks and weird names until I feel it's safe to hire them full-time and they get a proper gimmick.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monele Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 For Immersion my local jobbers always use masks and weird names until I feel it's safe to hire them full-time and they get a proper gimmick. OK, I can see this working. In my urban fantasy product, I could create minion archetypes applied as masks or generic gimmicks. Are masks really penalty free if you decide a worker is a keeper and you want them to go with a totally different gimmick? Or will they have to go through the usual cooldown time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louis1016 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 I personally find the game much more fun without autopush and figuring out how I want to push each wrestler myself. I find workers getting upset about staying at a certain push to be realistic and most of the time it doesnt effect much of their morale because it is already high from other things. The worst personalities are usually the ones who get upset about it the most which I enjoy dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamillePunk Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I auto-push after every show and don't manage it beyond that. Too many things to micro-manage in this game without adding that on top of it. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> I also avoid bad personalities the best that I can so inflating a guy's ego has never been much of a problem for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monele Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 <p>Well, I'm still not using Auto Push because I'm a control freak, but I'm definitely letting pushes be a much more fluid thing now, meaning some of my "low" guys are now pushing up to mid or upper, because they can apparently <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> I'm still forcing some of them a rank below recommendation at times, either to avoid inflated ego, or because it's required story-wise (well... ok, maybe I'm still stuck on the idea push influences who can plausible beat whom, which apparently is not true, argh... misconceptions die hard)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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