Crowd management & puroresu; or, why isn't my Tokyo Dome main event an A?

[dnmt]

Hi everyone, I love the game so far, but am running into some issues that I think are general enough to warrant their own thread. I am running a real world 2016 mod and playing as New Japan. However, my main events seem to be B- to B at the most, and I'm not sure what it takes to get an A.

 

First off, I think crowd management might be throwing me off. New Japan doesn't really book in the ebb and flow style the crowd management/perfect show theory demands. They more or less have a gradual increase in intensity as the matches go on, and will sometimes put on 2 if not 3 all out/epic/steal the show matches to close out an event.

 

Is it possible to book like this while having the perfect show theory option enabled? Am I just selecting the wrong match purposes? For example, I tried to end my last PPV with a Steal the Show match, followed by a Storytelling match, followed by an Epic in the main event. Is this always going to burn the crowd out? Also, do angles like post match celebration and special entrances help cool the crowd?

 

In addition, I am consistently getting the comment that "the announcing quality brought the match down", despite having pretty good announcers. Is there something I am doing wrong here? Can this really impact the match grade? If so, I may just edit my announcers to have 100s in the necessary skills, as the NJPW announcers really add to the match quality in real life.

 

Please let me know any strategies I can implement to achieve an A. Does the crowd management option really impact the show enough to lower my grades? Or am I doing something else wrong?

[We are APW]

I'm sure there are ways, but you always need to remember that the game isn't designed for real life mods, real life mods aren't going to be balanced in the same way the Cverse is - so it'll be very hard to get the game to match real life.

[dnmt]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="We are APW" data-cite="We are APW" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42533" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm sure there are ways, but you always need to remember that the game isn't designed for real life mods, real life mods aren't going to be balanced in the same way the Cverse is - so it'll be very hard to get the game to match real life.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That is a good point. However, I noticed other companies getting A's and B+'s regularly. All Japan doesn't have a great roster but they crank out B+ main events (in my game) even on tiny shows. WWE has A's or A*'s on every card. So I think the problem is with my booking, not with the database.</p>

[Tiberious]

It's hard to give advice without knowning more about what's going on. Can you give a more detailed breakdown of your last main event (or any main event you feel under delivered). Who was involved, how over & skilled are those guys, what notes did you use, what did the dirt sheet notes say (if they're enabled), etc.

[dnmt]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Tiberious4" data-cite="Tiberious4" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42533" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It's hard to give advice without knowning more about what's going on. Can you give a more detailed breakdown of your last main event (or any main event you feel under delivered). Who was involved, how over & skilled are those guys, what notes did you use, what did the dirt sheet notes say (if they're enabled), etc.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Sure. So I was really disappointed in my last 3 matches. </p><p> </p><p> The first was Katsuyori Shibata vs. Minoru Suzuki. Both main eventers with high in ring skills and good gimmicks. I booked a 14 minute "steal the show" match that got a B-.</p><p> </p><p> Next was the semi main event, Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega. Both main eventers, and I did a "special singles entrance" angle for Okada that got an A. Match was 28 minutes, with a "Storytelling" purpose. Also got a B-.</p><p> </p><p> Main event was Hiroshi Tanahashi (company figurehead) vs. Tetsuya Naito. Both main event guys and 2 of the best wrestlers in my company. I booked them in a 32 minute "Epic" that only got a B- even tho both wrestlers' in ring performances were A's.</p><p> </p><p> Also, just to note, I had 2 matches on the undercard that got B-, including a dumb 10 man NJPW vs. NOAH tag that didn't even have great wrestlers in it.</p>

[lois lily]

32 minutes!? Blimey that's a long one!

[Justin]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lois lily" data-cite="lois lily" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42533" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>32 minutes!? Blimey that's a long one!</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Not for New Japan.</p>

[dnmt]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lois lily" data-cite="lois lily" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42533" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>32 minutes!? Blimey that's a long one!</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yep the WK main events are almost always 30+ minutes. Same with G1 Climax Finals.</p>

[lavelleuk]

<p>If it helps I have never had a good match with epic, spectacular or even once in a life time! I have tested notes a few times and matches that get "A" rated on "regular" always go down to "B" in my game, I was especially surprised at once in a lifetime doing that as I didn't think that changed the way people wrestle, just makes the crowd more into it.</p><p> </p><p>

also storytelling will lower ratings I believe as it's more about focusing on a story outside the ring, which you don't really want in New Japan I assume.</p><p> </p><p>

hope that helps, but yeah, I just have every long match be "regular", a random midcard match "storytelling", another random midcard match a wild brawl or car crash, and that gets me A/A* cards every time</p>

[dnmt]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lavelleuk" data-cite="lavelleuk" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42533" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If it helps I have never had a good match with epic, spectacular or even once in a life time! I have tested notes a few times and matches that get "A" rated on "regular" always go down to "B" in my game, I was especially surprised at once in a lifetime doing that as I didn't think that changed the way people wrestle, just makes the crowd more into it.<p> </p><p> also storytelling will lower ratings I believe as it's more about focusing on a story outside the ring, which you don't really want in New Japan I assume.</p><p> </p><p> hope that helps, but yeah, I just have every long match be "regular", a random midcard match "storytelling", another random midcard match a wild brawl or car crash, and that gets me A/A* cards every time</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I definitely appreciate the tips. I am going to start a new game with crowd management off, and will edit my announce team just to ensure they aren't the reason I'm losing points. I will try every big time match as regular and see what happens.</p>

[lois lily]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lavelleuk" data-cite="lavelleuk" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42533" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If it helps I have never had a good match with epic, spectacular or even once in a life time! I have tested notes a few times and matches that get "A" rated on "regular" always go down to "B" in my game, I was especially surprised at once in a lifetime doing that as I didn't think that changed the way people wrestle, just makes the crowd more into it.<p> </p><p> also storytelling will lower ratings I believe as it's more about focusing on a story outside the ring, which you don't really want in New Japan I assume.</p><p> </p><p> hope that helps, but yeah, I just have every long match be "regular", a random midcard match "storytelling", another random midcard match a wild brawl or car crash, and that gets me A/A* cards every time</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I've noticed the same in my WWE game. I'm not under any illusion the data is perfect. But things like once in a lifetime matches have graded lower than regular when I've rerun events testing out different notes.</p><p> </p><p> Also my understanding of storytelling is its linked to something else going on. So not so much wrestler A & B putting on a match that tells a story. But something linked to them outside. So for example I have Tyler Breeze managed by Ted DiBiase who has made Breeze the Million Dollar CHampion. However Breeze keeps going up against people who are clearly going to beat him and he is getting himself intentionally DQ'ed or counted out so he loses but doesn't lose the belt. I've had those as storytelling matches.</p>

[dubb93]

<p>If you are running the perfect show theory make sure you are bringing the crowd down somewhere before the main event. In 2013 where I played tons of PGHW with PST turned on I would always book a downer right before the co-ME, then book the co with lift the crowd, then run my ME. If you need to be sure te crowd was brought down you can book two downers in a row and/or include an angle with a ME before your main event if you need to make sure the crowd gets hot again for the ME. Should work even better in 2016 where your 2nd to last match isn't necessarily carrying 20% of your show grade and is getting dinged every time for a cold crowd.</p><p> </p><p>

The other advice in this thread is good too. I think you are hurting yourself by not fully understanding match aims and using them poorly.</p>

[dnmt]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="dubb93" data-cite="dubb93" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42533" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If you are running the perfect show theory make sure you are bringing the crowd down somewhere before the main event. In 2013 where I played tons of PGHW with PST turned on I would always book a downer right before the co-ME, then book the co with lift the crowd, then run my ME. If you need to be sure te crowd was brought down you can book two downers in a row and/or include an angle with a ME before your main event if you need to make sure the crowd gets hot again for the ME. Should work even better in 2016 where your 2nd to last match isn't necessarily carrying 20% of your show grade and is getting dinged every time for a cold crowd.<p> </p><p> The other advice in this thread is good too. I think you are hurting yourself by not fully understanding match aims and using them poorly.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yes I'm thinking its a combination of perfect show theory and my match aims being off. I do find it very odd that adding "Epic" or "Once in a Lifetime" would have a negative impact on the grade. That might just be due to some weirdness in the real world database, but it seems counterintuitive.</p>

[lois lily]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="dean" data-cite="dean" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42533" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yes I'm thinking its a combination of perfect show theory and my match aims being off. I do find it very odd that adding "Epic" or "Once in a Lifetime" would have a negative impact on the grade. That might just be due to some weirdness in the real world database, but it seems counterintuitive.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I do think stealing the show/epic/once in a lifetime does put added pressure on the wrestlers to perform and as such could "choke" therefore giving you a slightly decreased match rating. Just because two guys qualify for a once in a lifetime match doesn't mean it will rate mega highly.</p>

[Andylion]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lois lily" data-cite="lois lily" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42533" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I do think stealing the show/epic/once in a lifetime does put added pressure on the wrestlers to perform and as such could "choke" therefore giving you a slightly decreased match rating. Just because two guys qualify for a once in a lifetime match doesn't mean it will rate mega highly.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><div style="text-align:center;"><img alt="cena-rock.jpg" data-src="https://theoclardy.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/cena-rock.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div><p></p><p></p>

[nebradska]

<p>As I understand it...</p><p> </p><p>

Putting on more than two intense matches in a row can run the risk of burning out a crowd. It's best to put a match to calm the crowd before your final two matches or inbetween two intense matches at the end. Calm the crowd matches can still be quite good, regularly earning me B ratings if the workers involved are talented.</p><p> </p><p>

Also, regarding match aims:</p><p>

'Regular' simply avoids any penalties from the position of the match on the card, but you also don't get bonuses for it. What that tells me is that when a match gets a better grade with a 'Regular' than it did with other aims in the same place on the card, the match was poorly placed for its aim.</p>

[Justin]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="nebradska" data-cite="nebradska" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42533" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>As I understand it...<p> </p><p> Putting on more than two intense matches in a row can run the risk of burning out a crowd. It's best to put a match to calm the crowd before your final two matches or inbetween two intense matches at the end. Calm the crowd matches can still be quite good, regularly earning me B ratings if the workers involved are talented.</p><p> </p><p> Also, regarding match aims:</p><p> 'Regular' simply avoids any penalties from the position of the match on the card, but you also don't get bonuses for it. What that tells me is that when a match gets a better grade with a 'Regular' than it did with other aims in the same place on the card, the match was poorly placed for its aim.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That has been my understanding. I <strong>always</strong> put a "bring down" match before my last two matches.</p><p> </p><p> As for storytelling, I still haven't figured it out, have only ever been given one relevant example, so I usually just slap it on whatever mid-card match means the least to the actual show. Or, any kind of straight up squash match.</p>

[monele]

<p>I'm still trying to understand the details but from the description of the aims and some other notes, I get the feeling most are a risk/reward or skill/reward thing where using "epic" aims and similar would give you a big boost, but only in the context explained by the aim.</p><p> </p><p>

Either you need specific circumstances or workers with very high stats to pull it off.</p><p> </p><p>

With a small company and "low level" workers, I'm seeing that being an issue even with classic notes such as All Out or Slow Build... and just now I've noticed Spectacle looks like an advanced version of Slow Build (since it includes it). Same thing for Steal the Show being the step up from All Out.</p><p>

I'm going to guess if the easier aim doesn't work out to start with, the step-up will fail spectacularly? And of course, the step-ups add more requirements (high popularity, high skills, etc...)</p>

[d12345]

I second what Monele said.

 

In my TCW game I've got getting A* matches pretty figured out. I've changed the product around a few times and noticed without a doubt that your product plays a heavy role in the grading of certain match aims.

 

You just need to read the notes of the aim carefully. If you understand your promotion's product and the skill level of your workers then it is a simple equation.

 

This is the chart I believe you'd want to consider to choose the right aim:

 

Regular - You're not sure which aim to choose and don't want to experiment and possibly get dinged in the grade.

 

Work the Crowd - The crowd is completely cold and you want to warm them up

 

Calm the Crowd - The crowd is hot and you want to cool them off in order to not burn them out

 

Lift the Crowd - You f'd up with your booking (maybe on purpose to tell a story) and now need to bring em back.

 

Wild Brawl - You've got 2 workers with good enough stamina to go all out. Your match is going to be shorter than 15 mins. Both workers have high brawl stats.

 

High Spots - The match before should have warmed up the crowd either by being good or by you having used 'work the crowd' note. The workers should have high flashiness and aerial stats

 

Technical Masterclass - You're crowd is cold. The match before you used calm the crowd or this is the first segment of more than 6 minutes on your card. If you've got workers with high chain wrestling, mat wrestling, and basics they can put on a fantastic bout. Pure, Realism, Traditional, Hyper Real like this, but Mainstream, Comedy, (maybe hardcore?) don't as much. I like to do these as over 20 minute contests and add the slow build note. You can get really high grades with that combination in a pure or traditional key feature product.

 

Comedy - It works like calming the crowd accept it doesn't bring them down as much as I believe it pauses them to avoid burn out. Needs worker's who have good Comedy Performance rating. They also should not have a realistic, brute, or legit gimmick.

 

Story Telling - You're telling your workers to keep it simple, therefor they wont give their best effort in the ring. Obviously in that case you probably don't want your workers taking it easy for the main event of your PPV. This is a good tv midcard match note. It also has no chance of burning out your crowd.

 

Mayhem - Think WCW 2000 Vince Russo type stuff. This is terrible for promotions with products that are Pure, Realism, Hyper Real, etc. Mainstream, Hardcore, Comedy audiences are good for this. Never a main event quality bout.

 

Car Crash - Think ECW's High Incident bouts or Wrestling Society X stuff where some ish is gonna explode when you get suplexed into it from off the top of a balcony. Depending on your product you could main event with this (Hardcore, Cult). Psychology and Safety are important attributes for this one. Flashiness might come into play too but I'm not sure.

 

Steal The Show - You can main event with this on some products as well. The crowd shouldn't be dead but they also shouldn't have been hot for too many segments before this. The important attributes are Flashiness, Consistency, Stamina.

 

Spectacle - You need to have a warm crowd but not buzzing yet as this can get them buzzing. This is a high risk/reward aim. If this is your main event your guys should have very high psychology and be uber over. This can main event and these matches can NOT be under 15 minutes without getting heavily dinged. They should essentially be 20 minutes plus to get the full potential out of it.

 

Epic - Can also main event. Needs 2 high psychology workers who also have high top row stats. That being chain/mat wrestling specifically. I believe the more high top row stats they have the better your chances. They also need high basics. Basically this is not for your Ultimate Warrior vs Lex Luger main event. This is more for your Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels if that makes sense.

 

Once In A Lifetime - I haven't had the chance to use this one so I actually have no feedback to offer beyond the game text. Seeing as the crowd can "go insane" for this aim I'd have the crowd calmed, then warmed up with work the crowd or tech masterclass depending on your product. Make sure your 2 competitors are over of course.

[monele]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="d12345" data-cite="d12345" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42533" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Comedy - (...) Needs worker's who have good Comedy Performance rating. They also should not have a realistic, brute, or legit gimmick.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Unless the worker has a high Comedy rating? I've read somewhere that it compensates having the wrong type of gimmick. Caveat: didn't try yet.</p><p> Of course, it seems the Product must accomodate for some Comedy. Bet that wouldn't be great for Pure or mostly Hardcore promotions.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42533" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Once In A Lifetime - (...)Make sure your 2 competitors are over of course.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's a very good example of an aim you will use very rarely because of high and specific requirements: both workers >75% of their way to Hall of the Immortals + never fought against each other before.</p>

[d12345]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="monele" data-cite="monele" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42533" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Unless the worker has a high Comedy rating? I've read somewhere that it compensates having the wrong type of gimmick. Caveat: didn't try yet.<p> Of course, it seems the Product must accomodate for some Comedy. Bet that wouldn't be great for Pure or mostly Hardcore promotions..</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I've used it a few times. It works well as an alternate to calming the crowd.</p><p> </p><p> If you use someone with a gimmick that isn't suited to Comedy matches it will let you know. It works the other way around though. If someone's Comedy rating is low you can counteract that by them having a Comedy gimmick. </p><p> </p><p> I don't know if it's a 1 to 1 compensation though between gimmick and Comedy Performance rating.</p>

[dnmt]

Quick update - I played around with different match aims, changing my product, etc. I still see the Epic/Spectacle note ending up in B/B- matches when it normally would be an A with a "regular" match aim. This is really disappointing as I am booking the show using PST and the wrestlers are being graded at A/A* in ring performance. Why does Using Epic or Spectacle seem to consistently lower my grades, even when I'm theoretically doing it all correctly?? I would love to utilize the match aims but this just doesn't make sense.

[phoxy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Andylion" data-cite="Andylion" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42533" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><div style="text-align:center;"><img alt="cena-rock.jpg" data-src="https://theoclardy.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/cena-rock.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div><p></p><p></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Also: </p><p> </p><p> <span>http://wetalkwrestling.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/HulkvsHBK.jpg</span></p>

[Gtact420]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="dean" data-cite="dean" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42533" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Quick update - I played around with different match aims, changing my product, etc. I still see the Epic/Spectacle note ending up in B/B- matches when it normally would be an A with a "regular" match aim. This is really disappointing as I am booking the show using PST and the wrestlers are being graded at A/A* in ring performance. Why does Using Epic or Spectacle seem to consistently lower my grades, even when I'm theoretically doing it all correctly?? I would love to utilize the match aims but this just doesn't make sense.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> does anyone have an answer to this yet?? I played around the match aim as well but couldn't get Epic/Spectacle to go higher than regular. As regular gets the bonus for being done to a hot crowd whereas the other two doesn't</p>

[dnmt]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Gtact420" data-cite="Gtact420" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42533" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>does anyone have an answer to this yet?? I played around the match aim as well but couldn't get Epic/Spectacle to go higher than regular. As regular gets the bonus for being done to a hot crowd whereas the other two doesn't</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I didn't find out anything else about it. I did a bunch of tests and always got better ratings with no match aim than with, with PST turned off and with it on. I think it's a broken feature to be honest, and Adam should either explain it better or patch it. It makes no sense that telling guys like Okada and Tanahashi to go put on an epic match would actually make it worse, especially when I can see their in-ring performances graded at A or A*.</p>