Should Companies w/ 1 dimensional products be punished?

[d12345]

This is a thought I had after playing about 3 years into the C-Verse with TCW.

 

In TEW companies that offer just one form of pro wrestling entertainment have a better chance of growth and pop gains than those who offer a variety. I am wondering if it's feasible for a company who is 100% Pure with no Mainstream elements to really grow to National.

 

My thinking is that the idea of having 'Mainstream' appeal in your Product should be a necessity if you hope to grow past Cult level.

 

Isn't being at Cult level by definition meaning you only appeal to a segment of the available wrestling audience in your area?

 

For example: How can one truly appeal to 90% of the wrestling audience in the U.S. if large segments of the audience are not represented with their product? If you have no Comedy, no Hardcore, no Modern, and no Mainstream can you really grow to National/International levels?

[drcat123]

Every wrestling fan is different. I personally loved the cwc but don't like wwe. I loved broken matt hardy but don't really care about the rest of tna. So audience is the most important thing in wrestling. So yes I do think every company should be able to be number 1 in the world.

[kingjames]

<p>It's an interesting question, and a little difficult in some respects as there really hasn't been a particularly robust history of national level promotions to reference. I can mostly speak to the American/Canadian scene; maybe someone who's got a better grip on Japan, Mexico, or Europe could add something my limited perspective cannot.</p><p> </p><p>

In the US, WWE is definitely Global, and WCW was at least National if not Global. TNA/Impact's tough to classify but let's throw it into the mix, as it has areas overseas where it does well, and it has had national and international broadcasts on commercial television. Arguments could be made for 1980s AWA having maybe crested to National, though I'd argue having a national deal with ESPN during its infancy in an era where commercial television was far more important than cable reflects a particularly robust Cult-level promotion. ECW barely made it to cable TV before collapsing so it seems high-level Cult to me. Lucha Underground is such a new phenomenon, I'm not sure exactly how to describe it.</p><p> </p><p>

So, if we're talking about three real-life examples of National/Global companies, it may be difficult to extrapolate from that. WWE definitely seems to have the "jack of all trades, master of none" flavor that you're referring to, and given their sustained run at a National/Global level for 30+ years, it seems to fit. WCW, though their product differed in several key ways. also had "a little for everyone" and definitely grabbed at the mainstream with its use of celebrities, for good or for ill. TNA/Impact has shifted its identity several times, but they've never seemed to me to be a "specialist" promotion.</p><p> </p><p>

Maybe the reason why we don't have a "specialist" promotion to use as a real-world model is what you're saying - a promotion that features only one kind of wrestling, by definition, cannot appeal to a large enough segment of the audience to rise to national popularity. Though who knows? Maybe there are other factors in play that might explain a specialist promotion's rise to success. Maybe, in the real world, WWE's hegemony has so thoroughly defined professional wrestling for a mainstream audience in a way that audiences in the C-Verse may not have experienced, making them more open to a narrowly focused promotion? Maybe broadcasters in the C-Verse are more open to cutting edge wrestling products than the real-world that struggled to find a cable network for ECW?</p><p> </p><p>

I can definitely see real-world precedent for deciding TEW could penalize a promotion that doesn't offer enough variety. I'm not entirely sure on a mechanical level how to model that, particularly without limiting the "what-if" factor of TEW that a lot of people get a lot of enjoyment from. Which isn't saying it couldn't be done, I'm just saying I don't have any good suggestions on how to do it. Maybe it could be a toggled option?</p>

[kingjames]

Then again, I suppose this is already cooked into the game to an extent via the "Trends" bonus/penalty reflecting the audience tastes of the various global region, so maybe you could consider it already being there, just not as a hard cap.

[Markw]

If something was going to be done along these lines (and I'm not sure it's necessary), then it ought to be done in conjunction with the 'trends' feature. So if for example you're in a game area that has Mainstream as very popular you need a certain level of mainstream in your product to rise past a certain point, if mainstream is normal in your game area then there'd be no requirements. And potentially if Mainstream was very unpopular then having too much of it in your product would limit your companies size.

 

I think it'd make more sense to set it so that you need a minimum score using the same criteria that's used for national battles, to reach a certain point though. I think having popular talent with real star power is a lot more important than the specifics of the product.

[d12345]

<p>Kingjames I think your post is exactly the discussion I had with myself that brought about my idea.</p><p> </p><p>

I would expand and say it's not just WCW, TNA, and WWE who have shown that growth is about variety. It's also other non wrestling entities that have risen from Cult brands to Global.</p><p> </p><p>

Examples are the Marvel Universe. Without the mainstream appeal of its entertainment they are not where they are right now in terms of being synonymous with the comic book super hero movie. UFC often grabs at Mainstream straws now a days. One needs to look no further than them allowing CM Punk to compete on their PPV or Nate Diaz vs McGregor bottle throwing at the press conference to show that they are creeping some mainstream into their product.</p><p> </p><p>

Within the pro wrestling world if you look at New Japan part of their resurgence is attacking the mainstream with their storylines and characters. Ever since Nakamura's Freddy Mercury/Michael Jackson gimmick got over so well they've been saddling everyone and their mother with gimmicks. I mean EVIL comes to the ring with a Grim Reaper staff.</p><p> </p><p>

Then I look at smaller promotions who are attempting to grow like ROH or NOAH. Their attempts at growth are directly linked to their mainstream shifts.</p>

[DarK_RaideR]

<p>This reminds me of the ol' discussion about ECW having to tone down the violence after getting a nation-wide TV deal (plus the whole Network-Cyrus storyline that spawned from it all).</p><p> </p><p>

My initial response would be "why not, if their product is that good" but reading the responses I got plenty of food for thought and the first question that pops into my head is whether any promotion can truly have a 100% one-dimensional product. Looking at real-world examples, I wouldn't think any company's product could be classified as <em>exclusively</em> one of TEW's categories and none of the others.</p><p> </p><p>

Kingjames also has a point that WWE has shaped the audience's concept of what wrestling <em>is</em>, something that might not be the case for CornelVerse. On the other hand, there's SWF and TCW which might be a close equivalent.</p><p> </p><p>

Speaking of real-world examples, as a Lucha Underground fan I'll have to say CVerse has an australian equivalent. Don't recall the name (I think RAW) but its story is that it was created by a TV network to be a soap opera with a little wrestling on top. Lucha Underground is "innovate" in that it doesn't focus on touring and live shows, but is rather a pre-taped drama meant exclusively for television. Taking that a step further, tapings take place within roughly a month as opposed to other companies' weekly tapings and there's no PPV. It's a pretty new business model in a world where distribution has changed (see WWE's network). I think one of the changes TEW16 introduced takes this into account, with an option for inclining/ declining importance of PPVs as time goes by.</p><p> </p><p>

Ultimately, the key probably lies in the Trends function.</p>

[d12345]

<p>Good point Dark Raider. I think what I'm going to do before I start my next game is take the Pure trend to Unpopular across the world to balance things out.</p><p> </p><p>

That way a company can get 5 star matches all day being majorly 'Pure' but they will struggle to 'break into the mainstream' unless they also have some mainstream in their product.</p><p> </p><p>

This really spawned from C-Verse's PGHW being an unstoppable beast in Japan with 90 pop across the board while simultaneously offering a quite one-dimensional product (imo).</p>

[AceCodey]

I'd say add it in as an option like stuff such as PST and etc. It'd probably be a nice realistic feature, but there's no need to limit people so that they have to use mainstream elements if they don't want to.