The new National Battle system makes every game the same and boring

[TLCJR4LIFE]

One of the big appeals of this game was the sandbox feel and the ability to make anyone you wanted a star as long as they fit your vision of the product.

 

Now the system punishes you tremendously for pushing guys with under 80 star quality as big stars, no matter what there skills, overness or charisma is. It's really sapped the life out of the game for me..

 

I suppose on one end making a competitive battle for stars makes the stars commodities instead of ignoring the high SQ workers in favor of good ones that you could simply push to get high grades... so it adds a bit, but it takes way too much.

 

For one I've already stated long ago star quality growth needs to be fixed but it was dismissed as not a problem by Adam. You have tons of guys who end up getting star destiny roles and end up with 98 SQ but because they start at 43 they dont even come close to it... on average a worker will not improve more than 10 SQ from career start to finish and thats generally WITH a weight change.

 

 

The silly thing is all the young workers in the database and new prospects all have lower SQ than the established stars by a lot, so if you are playing a game to be a top company pretty much every game you will play will be predicated around building overness for the same 7 or so workers...It's really boring and restrictive.

 

Im playing an OLLIE game right now and theres no way I can compete Nationally with their lineup of Remo/Fuerza/Lopez/Lover/Leon without doing some lame thing like God pushing Khoklov (which again should nearly be happening in every serious game since the AI never touches him for whatever reason) and maybe Kirk Jameson(Im refusing to do both as they dont fit my idea of the company) or without doing these things basically only god-pushing Mr Lucha and trying to poach off their big 5 and Veleciopter.

 

 

After this your options are basically wait for new gens to pop up with 90 + SQ and push them regardless of their other stats(they are quite honestly irrelevant in anything but perf >> pop)....especially since there isnt a single Mexican pre-gen with 90 SQ. Hurrikan is as good as you'll get....and I guess Blue Phantom is an option.

 

 

 

tl;dr please either change the National Battle system or fix SQ growth, the game gets stale when shoehorned into playstyles and I miss the old TEW.

 

 

 

EDIT: IMO the most intuitive fix would be to simply factor in show scores as WELL as draw

[joemurphy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>After this your options are basically wait for new gens to pop up with 90 + SQ and push them regardless of their other stats(they are quite honestly irrelevant in anything but perf >> pop)....<strong>especially since there isnt a single Mexican pre-gen with 90 SQ</strong>. Hurrikan is as good as you'll get....and I guess Blue Phantom is an option.<p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't play CVerse but if this is true then isn't that kind of a problem with how it's been made? In real world terms it seems ludicrious that there isn't at one person in the country with great SQ. Perhaps Adam just hates Mexico <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Big Roguey]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="joemurphy" data-cite="joemurphy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't play CVerse but if this is true then isn't that kind of a problem with how it's been made? In real world terms it seems ludicrious that there isn't at one person in the country with great SQ. Perhaps Adam just hates Mexico <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png"></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Could be Adam setting Mexico up to fall in later versions? They're in a boom just now but every boom busts and if the future guys aren't stars, it'll help the bust.</p>

[TLCJR4LIFE]

<p>Im referring to the new workers that are automatically set to debut after youve started your game.</p><p> </p><p>

For example Tommy Cornell Jr is a pregen set to debut I believe in 2020. IIRC the best Mexican pregen is Hurrikan in terms of SQ/Charisma in the mid 80s...which could theoretically reach the 90s with a reasonable cap.</p><p> </p><p>

The problem is all the interesting other guys like for example Samael the Accuser who I love lore wise and would normally push in the old TEWs (his stats are really quite reasonable and I believe hes at 70SQ in my game) are literally never going to spike 25+ SQ even starting as kids(even if their potential is over that) .</p><p> </p><p>

So literally your option is to stay Cult and have fun with the game or go to National and push the same 7 guys so you dont get destroyed by losing a National Battle every month.</p>

[TLCJR4LIFE]

<p>The main thing is I dont want to sign too many non Mexican workers in my game. </p><p> </p><p>

I also want to keep the feel of tradition and respect of a 50+ year company like OLLIE. I even gave declining 45 year old El Cique a huge run and got him to 70+ overness as a Main Event babyface.</p><p> </p><p>

I had originally planned to leave Jacob Jett (91 SQ w/ weight change) and Big Smack Scott (90SQ) in the midcard but now I pretty much have to push them. I originally wanted to leave Jet Stream as a tag worker who eventually pulled 90+ match grades with High Spot matches but he'll pretty much have to be a big singles star as he out SQs every Mexican wrestler not on a Written in the entire database.</p><p> </p><p>

Scott makes the game too easy with his angle grades but I hate pushing a 40+ year old foreign worker with a bad personality..... that sandbox option was pretty much eliminated from me with the new system. I would obviously rather succeed than fail even if Im handcuffed creatively.</p><p> </p><p>

Jameson I refuse to sign as I want to avoid signing him in every single game. At least Jett and Scott start the game on writtens. I just got them because they got cut for some reason when I was still regional.</p>

[Winter8905]

<p>Not everyone are mega stars and they should be rare, </p><p> </p><p>

guys with high 70's+ with great destiny roles could get into the 90's</p><p> </p><p>

Also one on the perks of the dirty doctor is that the steroids are given out and the SQ increases at a much better rate. </p><p> </p><p>

Someone (Zero maybe) posted about Bret Hart using the dirty doctor in his 87 game and ended up with 100 SQ , up from like the mid 70's . </p><p> </p><p>

So there are variables that can change up games.</p>

[Donners]

<p>I don't know that it's fair to say that it makes every game the same, and I'm certainly grateful that it imposes something of a limit on company size - unlike WMMA 4, you don't wind up with numerous monster companies.</p><p> </p><p>

Having said that, it is a bit one-dimensional and frustrating.</p><p> </p><p>

I've signed Jack Bruce and Marat Khoklov on event-only deals to boost our points. It's an exploit, but I feel the contract negotiations can be unfair at times and this helps balance it out.</p><p> </p><p>

As you say, taking into account show quality would be preferable.</p>

[Romans_Brass_Shovel]

My suggestion is to turn off national battles if you have such a problem with it.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Romans_Brass_Shovel" data-cite="Romans_Brass_Shovel" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>My suggestion is to turn off national battles if you have such a problem with it.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Legitimately didnt know that was an option.</p><p> </p><p> Cheers.</p>

[Winter8905]

<p>Thing is tho those with like 90 + SQ are those that with the right pop could transcend wrestling and e main stream stars like a Hogan, Rock and to a less extent Cena. </p><p> </p><p>

Take todays WWE for example , the in ring product is overall the est it's ever been however there are so few true stars (SQ and pop) that not many casuals are getting behind the product an most gus are not main stream stars. except for Cena, he looks like a star, he's popular in the wrestling world and is SQ has made it possible to be in a few movies, host some award shows, be on other TV shows. </p><p> </p><p>

Most of the rest of the roster are nowhere near that level of both SQ and pop.</p><p> </p><p>

So the National battles things is realistic, if you only play short term games with the original big companies you're going to get similar top guys.</p><p> </p><p>

However if you pay long enough in multiple saves you will a few changes. Also being a small/ regional promotion will open up the game for you aswell.</p>

[d12345]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>After this your options are basically wait for new gens to pop up with 90 + SQ and push them regardless of their other stats(they are quite honestly irrelevant in anything but perf >> pop)....especially since there isnt a single Mexican pre-gen with 90 SQ. Hurrikan is as good as you'll get....and I guess Blue Phantom is an option. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Um</p><p> </p><p> This isn't true. </p><p> </p><p> Spoiler alert.</p><p> Midnight Eagle debuts in '22. He's got high SQ in the default database. With even a decent destiny roll he's over 90.</p><p> </p><p> Also show grade does play into National Battles just not in the rudimentary way of helping you win them. A show grade can help you overcome losing them.</p><p> </p><p> So if SOTBPW has ALL the star power in Mexico then the only way you can keep up is to have tremendous shows consistently.</p><p> </p><p> If you think just putting on better shows than a large wrestling company is enough to make them not popular or put them out of a business, then I would have to disagree with you.</p><p> </p><p> The goal when going against a giant (in any form of media) is to first establish yourself in the market BEFORE trying to compete.</p><p> </p><p> If you're trying to break into the super hero movie market and you make better super hero movies than Marvel, but don't have the X-Men, Avengers, Spiderman, etc. you're going to have a tough time. Just being "better" is not enough in ANY market sector (that includes pro wrestling).</p>

[Bigpapa42]

<p>Not saying the mechanism is perfect but its not unrealistic. And it forces you to make choices. That seems to be the intent behind it. </p><p> </p><p>

Saying Star Quality alone matters is false. Its Star Quality x Popularity. So a worker with 100 SQ but who is atrocious in the ring, has no popularity, and no immediate way to build them up (charisma, etc) is not a particularly valuable resource until they are developed in some manner. They need a way to build and maintain popularity as well, especially if they are a young lion with pretty much no starting popularity. </p><p> </p><p>

Even if you are behind in points battle in a national battle, you can apparently offset the damage by putting on better shows. That's where great in-ring talents near the top of the card definitely pay off, even if their SQ isn't ideal. </p><p> </p><p>

Is it unrealistic to expect a national-level company to have top workers heavy on SQ? Well, real wrestling doesn't really give us THAT many options to look at. There just haven't been that many national level (in TEW terms) promotions. The WWE throughout almost its entire history has certainly prioritized star quality in workers it chose to push to the top. Japan, where workrate is beloved, the look of the workers has often played an element, though Star Quality maybe differs a bit there. I can't speak on lucha quite as much, but a lot of guys pushed to the top seem to have a pretty good look to them. </p><p> </p><p>

There are always exceptions. Just looking at WWE, most of the exceptions were hardly "poor" in Star Quality. Just not ideal and for some, it was more just a lack of size. Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels (arguably, but he was probably Sex Appeal more than outright SQ), Mick Foley, Chris Jericho, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan.... all were great in-ring talents and could connect with the audience. Someone like Dusty Rhodes in WCW in the late 80s is more an exception because he was a regional star and an all-timer for promos. </p><p> </p><p>

The mechanism forces you to make choices. To carefully choose who you turn into a star and when you are "ready" to take on a bigger company. That should not be an easy thing to be successful at. TNA wasn't ready when they tried to create a new "Monday night war". How did that turn out for them? </p><p> </p><p>

In addition, repeated games with the same company in most mods is going to feel repetitive. Especially if you put up false barriers due to preferences, like only focusing on native Mexican talent. You are playing in an area of the game world that isn't massive or overflowing with endless options of workers to hire, so that repetitive feeling is probably unavoidable even if you alter who you push every single time. </p><p> </p><p>

And its worth mentioning that SOTBPW are quite possibly the strongest promotion in the Cverse. They are exceptional well set up with talent, two brands, and the combination of size and money to poach top global talent. They are perhaps the Cverse's closest approximation of the modern era WWE.</p>

[d12345]

<p>To add to Bigpapa in current real life Japan Star Quality is certainly more important than just work-rate.</p><p> </p><p>

Guys who lack SQ but have high workrates like Ishii, Shibata, and Goto just aren't pushed as top guys. They are used as you said, utility players to ensure quality. The top guys in New Japan have been Tanahashi, Nakamura, and Okada. All of those guys in TEW terms I would bet are 90+ in SQ.</p><p> </p><p>

So yea if you're New Japan's booker and decide you prefer Hirooki Goto, for example, more than Okada, Tanahashi, or Omega then you WOULD be hurting your company.</p><p> </p><p>

If you're WWE and you decide Wrestlemania's Main Event doesn't need much SQ, then go ahead and make Cesaro vs Neville your main event. Then watch your money spent on that event burn.</p><p> </p><p>

And to agree some more SOTBPW is hard to beat. Heck I had troubles with them taking my guys in a TCW save.</p>

[redgiant]

The new system probably leads to aging rosters in national companies. A decade later in my game, I notice that almost all of the national companies are filled with workers in their 40s. They frequently hire aging wrestlers probably because they tend to be more popular than younger ones.

[kingjames]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="redgiant" data-cite="redgiant" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The new system probably leads to aging rosters in national companies. A decade later in my game, I notice that almost all of the national companies are filled with workers in their 40s. They frequently hire aging wrestlers probably because they tend to be more popular than younger ones.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Which is pretty much what late 1990s WCW was. WCW tried to win the National Battle by poaching as many high Pop workers as possible. Which they succeeded in doing, and it helped them win the National Battle for over a year. Unfortunately, in doing so, their Backstage Environment got completely out of hand, they wrote too many bloated contracts, wrote too many contracts with Wage Matching and Creative Control clauses, gave contracts and to and pushed workers experiencing Time Decline, and so on. If TEW is producing saves where a company in a national battle seeks to win the battle by hiring overpriced veterans with high Pop & Star Quality, then I think it's doing a good job modeling reality. WCW won the battle for over a year straight, so the battle not suddenly shifting month to month also tracks. And if you want to compete against them, you could adopt WWF's strategy of building younger stars up and booking more interesting, higher match rating shows with hotter storylines.</p>

[redgiant]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="kingjames" data-cite="kingjames" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Which is pretty much what late 1990s WCW was. WCW tried to win the National Battle by poaching as many high Pop workers as possible. Which they succeeded in doing, and it helped them win the National Battle for over a year. Unfortunately, in doing so, their Backstage Environment got completely out of hand, they wrote too many bloated contracts, wrote too many contracts with Wage Matching and Creative Control clauses, gave contracts and to and pushed workers experiencing Time Decline, and so on. If TEW is producing saves where a company in a national battle seeks to win the battle by hiring overpriced veterans with high Pop & Star Quality, then I think it's doing a good job modeling reality. WCW won the battle for over a year straight, so the battle not suddenly shifting month to month also tracks. And if you want to compete against them, you could adopt WWF's strategy of building younger stars up and booking more interesting, higher match rating shows with hotter storylines.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It isn't realistic when all AI national companies are running like WCW, which is what the game will end up after a decade. All AI top companies keep stockpiling popular but aging wrestlers at the expense of promoting young wrestlers. Here are the top 20 popular wrestlers in 2030s in my previous watcher save:</p><p> </p><p> [<a href="http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=536050" rel="external nofollow">THREAD</a>]</p><p> </p><p> <img alt="tew.png" data-src="https://s3.postimg.org/pg5cbfsb7/tew.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> Most of the popular wrestlers are still the default wrestlers in their late 40s. It sucks when all of the top companies are run by Eric Bischoff!</p>

[d12345]

<p>If you don't like how the bookers from the top companies are booking/hiring workers then you can always edit their philosophies in the database you know.</p><p> </p><p>

You can go in and change Jerry Eisen and Duane Fry's Owner/booking preferences to favor potential and future stars etc. Go in and change Robbie Sanchez & Allen Packer from USPW, and so on.</p><p> </p><p>

I've seen that changing this has a big effect and if you set it to be how you <strong>feel</strong> they should behave as heads of the top companies than you'd have a more enjoyable time.</p>

[Captain2]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Winter8905" data-cite="Winter8905" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> Someone (Zero maybe) posted about Bret Hart using the dirty doctor in his 87 game and ended up with 100 SQ , up from like the mid 70's . </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> *waves*</p><p> </p><p> That was me, with my big roided up Bret Hart.</p>

[Winter8905]

Bret "The Roidman" Hart

[TLCJR4LIFE]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Bigpapa42" data-cite="Bigpapa42" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Not saying the mechanism is perfect but its not unrealistic. And it forces you to make choices. That seems to be the intent behind it. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This topic never once implied or suggested anything about the realism factor of the feature.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Saying Star Quality alone matters is false. Its Star Quality x Popularity. So a worker with 100 SQ but who is atrocious in the ring, has no popularity, and no immediate way to build them up (charisma, etc) is not a particularly valuable resource until they are developed in some manner. They need a way to build and maintain popularity as well, especially if they are a young lion with pretty much no starting popularity. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It isn't false. You just feed them wins. It isn't particularly hard. Then when they get force fed up to the top you just spam Overness angles where there huge SQ gives them a big bonus and you can get easy 100s every time even without Charisma. Very simple stuff.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Even if you are behind in points battle in a national battle, you can apparently offset the damage by putting on better shows. That's where great in-ring talents near the top of the card definitely pay off, even if their SQ isn't ideal. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Most of the top companies can put on good shows consistently as well.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Is it unrealistic to expect a national-level company to have top workers heavy on SQ? Well, real wrestling doesn't really give us THAT many options to look at. There just haven't been that many national level (in TEW terms) promotions. The WWE throughout almost its entire history has certainly prioritized star quality in workers it chose to push to the top. Japan, where workrate is beloved, the look of the workers has often played an element, though Star Quality maybe differs a bit there. I can't speak on lucha quite as much, but a lot of guys pushed to the top seem to have a pretty good look to them. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Star quality isnt a thing that translates well when it comes to real life or even TEWs own database. There are numerous workers who have received SQ spikes based on gimmick changes which happens all the time in real life(I highly doubt Mean Mark Callous was a 90+ SQ worker for example, also Husky Harris) but this sort of thing just doesnt happen in an actual game. Like I said the variance is usually less than 10 and almost never higher than 15.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The mechanism forces you to make choices. To carefully choose who you turn into a star and when you are "ready" to take on a bigger company. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> But thats the point. It doesnt. The choice is push the guy with the high numeric value in SQ because thats how you succeed. There is nothing careful about it. It's extremely linear and basically, as I said, should lead to most games just being Gargantuan/Jameson/Khoklov/Avatar/Atheron fests because those are the guys in the game who have 90+ SQ and pretty much very few people will ever reach that with very little variance.</p><p> </p><p> The appeal of TEW to me was the variance. I enjoyed random little Michael X highrolling destiny roll and becoming a Next Big Thing and future Main Event star, carefully building up his stats by micromanaging him in matches to build up his top row, padding his charisma stats... developing stars used to be legitimate work and I loved it....theres very little fun in signing up the obvious prospects every year and pushing them up....theres no challenge to it. They have high stats you make them win matches and bam...whoop de doo.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>In addition, repeated games with the same company in most mods is going to feel repetitive. Especially if you put up false barriers due to preferences, like only focusing on native Mexican talent. You are playing in an area of the game world that isn't massive or overflowing with endless options of workers to hire, so that repetitive feeling is probably unavoidable even if you alter who you push every single time. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Not really. In this game Dr Rudo rolled max pop and NBT. In a normal instance I would push him to be the top heel in all of Mexico and run most of my stories as him as a Bond villain with a ton of evil henchman that pester babyfaces.</p><p> </p><p> But in this game he has 75 SQ so it's a no-go. He wouldnt even crack the top 5 vs SOTBW at 100 pop. Better push Super Lucha Scott instead.</p>

[TLCJR4LIFE]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="redgiant" data-cite="redgiant" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It isn't realistic when all AI national companies are running like WCW, which is what the game will end up after a decade. All AI top companies keep stockpiling popular but aging wrestlers at the expense of promoting young wrestlers. Here are the top 20 popular wrestlers in 2030s in my previous watcher save:<p> </p><p> [<a href="http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=536050" rel="external nofollow">THREAD</a>]</p><p> </p><p> <img alt="tew.png" data-src="https://s3.postimg.org/pg5cbfsb7/tew.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> Most of the popular wrestlers are still the default wrestlers in their late 40s. It sucks when all of the top companies are run by Eric Bischoff!</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> This is also due to the default wrestlers having way more star quality than the debuting wrestlers and SQ growth being insignificant in 90 percent of teh cases.</p>

[d12345]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TLCJR4LIFE" data-cite="TLCJR4LIFE" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This topic never once implied or suggested anything about the realism factor of the feature.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It isn't false. You just feed them wins. It isn't particularly hard. Then when they get force fed up to the top you just spam Overness angles where there huge SQ gives them a big bonus and you can get easy 100s every time even without Charisma. Very simple stuff.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Don't you realize that this is literal what every booker tries to do. That is literally what WCW did with Goldberg. Goldberg didn't have an ounce of Charisma. His segments were hot because he didn't have to be entertaining. He just showed up at the right time to beat up the nWo. </p><p> </p><p> You are basically describing the WCW business model. WWF did this with Stone Cold and The Rock too. The only difference is those 2 guys had loads of charisma so they became icons.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Most of the top companies can put on good shows consistently as well.<p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Star quality isnt a thing that translates well when it comes to real life or even TEWs own database. There are numerous workers who have received SQ spikes based on gimmick changes which happens all the time in real life(I highly doubt Mean Mark Callous was a 90+ SQ worker for example, also Husky Harris) but this sort of thing just doesnt happen in an actual game. Like I said the variance is usually less than 10 and almost never higher than 15.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Mean Mark didn't gain SQ from playing the Undertaker character. 2 things happened there. Vince took a worker with high menace and got him over with a legendary gimmick.</p><p> </p><p> Undertaker was never the face of the WWE because he lacked charisma. He didn't hold the title as much as the other guys because he just didn't have as much charisma. He was heavily protected for years by not having to talk very much. </p><p> </p><p> That was the point of the gimmick, the angles based on menace, and Paul Bearer. It was all to protect Taker. It worked because it fooled you.</p><p> </p><p> Watch an Undertaker promo from USWA, then watch 1 of his as the American Bad Ass. Watch Undertaker try to go word for word with The Rock or Stone Cold. He's not great on the mic.</p>

[Kiheiji]

<p>Maybe Adam wants SOTBPW to remain untouchable in their country?</p><p> </p><p>

OLLIE not being able to keep up with them makes sense to me, honestly. It's already an uphill battle to begin with because OLLIE starts at regional. In the business, you don't see a lot of fairy tale endings where small promoters topple the big business. You can't win them all. Sometimes, all you can do is try to get by.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

Not a lot of TEW players bother with Europe, but the ones who do probably don't like how handicapped they are playing a European fed. Much like you feel with Mexico. In the end, the region of Europe is the way it is by design and you just have to play with what you have.</p>

[kingjames]

<p>Star Quality is an interesting thing, isn't it? I mean, of all the attributes, I think this may be one of the hardest to gauge. I've always thought of Star Quality as something where I look at someone for the first time and I think - man, I can't take my eyes off them. Before they speak, before they do any awesome moves, just some intangible <em>something</em> about them that says, "this person's the real deal". Part of the problem with using real-life data is that we can't help but be a little post hoc in our reasoning. Mean Mark Callous must have had stupid amounts of SQ because he became the Undertaker, right? I don't know if it's even entirely possible to step back from that.</p><p> </p><p>

In some ways, having people around me who aren't wrestling fans has been super helpful. Their reactions have generally given me the ability to step away from my smarky perspective on guys. My non-wrestling fans, when first exposed to Daniel Bryan, didn't get why people liked him so much. After they watched him wrestle a few times they understood his appeal a bit more, but it wasn't immediate. Neither was Kevin Owens - "who is this fat dude?" they asked. Same with wondering why the audience is behind someone like Dean Ambrose - "why are they into this guy who looks like he's tweaked out of his mind on meth?" My wife - who generally indulges me on this wrestling thing - knows I love classic 1990s Mick Foley, but I had to explain to her the things that made me love him. But she immediately understands Stone Cold. Jake Roberts, she had to watch a few times to get why I'm obsessed with the guy. My non-wrestling friends immediately got Roman Reigns. They had to ask me why everyone was booing him. They get John Cena. They immediately understand Brock Lesnar. They get Asuka and Bayley but I need to explain the subtle joys of The Revival.</p><p> </p><p>

In some cases, for past performers, it's worth looking back and seeing what kind of hype, if any, they got. I know there was definitely people who tagged Mark Callous as a future big thing. Same with "Stunning" Steve Austin. People knew Sting was going to be big from the start. The problem, of course, is trying to find people who had huge SQ but failed. Magnum TA? I mean, he was a fairly big star (at least in the Southeast), but injury stopped him cold. I'm trying to think of someone who looked like they would be a star, but just...didn't. WWF Kevin Nash, maybe? His run as Diesel was as the lowest-drawing champion, and it could maybe be argued his general lack of effort meant that though he was big as part of the nWo angle, he should have been bigger? Same with Hall, but toss his substance abuse issues on top of inconsistent to zero effort performances?</p><p> </p><p>

I dunno. I will give the +1 to noting Goldberg as a huge SQ guy with lower Entertainment skills who got over huge because they booked him beautifully (and people were getting so sick of the nWo angle that they were holding out for someone to finally end them). And Undertaker isn't much of a promo guy - he's not awful at this point in his career, but I'd say his promos at this point get over based on his incredible Overness, not his mic skills (though I'd quibble with Charisma - I think he's got at least average Charisma but below average Microphone). For me, it wasn't the gimmick that made Taker have Star Quality; it was Mark Calloway having SQ that allowed a Legendary-rated gimmick and 90+ Menace (plus underrated Psychology) to result in huge Pop gains. Not everyone could have gotten the Undertaker gimmick to work; yes, Calloway is a legend due to Undertaker, but Undertaker's a legend because of the man playing him.</p><p> </p><p>

Which doesn't make them bad wrestlers! There's a hundred ways to succeed in professional wrestling and not everyone has to be amazing in every possible way in order to be a worthwhile, or even legendary, worker. A smart booker takes what a performer brings and emphasizes those things and de-emphasizes the things they don't do well. Shawn Michaels had pretty much everything except Menace - if they had booked him on Menace, he would have failed, and he's just about the most well-rounded performer I can think of off the top of my head.</p><p> </p><p>

Looping back on point...I think it's entirely realistic for the largest companies in the world to scoop up Star Quality performers like candy. I think the CornellVerse is actually much harder to play in for a mid-sized promotion because of there being three National-Level or on the verge promotions in the US (SWF, USPW, TCW) and at least one National-level promotion in Canada (NOTBPW) and Mexico (SOTBPW) that might snap up your best talent, instead of the single dominant promotion in the real world. And it strikes me as being completely understandable for the national promotions in the CVerse to book like Bischoff when you've got a two-to-five-way battle in the National Battles - go with the older stars who will win you the war and buy up the high SQ talent from the ECWs and ROHs of the CVerse. You can still succeed as a promotion without SQ, but given the almost eternal Monday Night Wars situation the CVerse finds itself in, I don't think it's totally unrealistic for the big boys to have shades of 1996-1998 WCW in their booking.</p>

[d12345]

<p>+1,000,000 Kingjames. Well stated.</p><p> </p><p>

I admit that I undersold Mean Mark's Charisma. I wasn't saying it was dirt garbage, just that it was sub par by comparison. He was significantly overshadowed by all the stars of his generation.</p><p> </p><p>

If you watch mid-late 90s WCW you'll see a lot of high SQ guys who never got over. A lot of them were roided up muscle heads with no charisma though. Sean Stasiak, Mark Jindrak, Sean O'Haire.</p><p> </p><p>

Heck a perfect example of a Next Big Thing who was pegged for future stardom who legit could never crack the midcard was Buff THE STUFF Bagwell. He had everything. A great look. Loads of Charisma. Was great on the mic. Entertaining gimmick during his run with Steiner. He is the epitome of NBT with high SQ who just never broke 70 pop.</p><p> </p><p>

I also agree that if the C-Verse in North America was just USPW, SOTBPW, and a bunch of low cult/high regional indies like real life (i.e. CZCW, FCW, 4C) it would be much easier. That wouldn't be as fun though imo.</p>