A*/100 Rated Angles

[kingjames]

I've been trying to establish a baseline for what would be an A* (letter grade) or 100 (number grade) Angle. In this case, I'm using "Angle" in the TEW sense of a single show segment, not a storyline. With the Meltzer five-star system (even if I quibble with the rating given), I can translate a five-star match to at least an A, if not an A*. Something like Savage/Steamboat, a universally acknowledged classic.

 

But when you pull a grade like that in a segment, what would that reflect? I've been trying to translate them to real-life examples, and these are what I was thinking might qualify at A*/100 grade Angle segments:

 

Dusty's "Hard Times" promo

Stone Cold's "Austin 3:16" speech

Hogan's promo after being revealed as the third man of the nWo

Mick Foley's "Cane Dewey" promo

CM Punk's "Pipe Bomb"

 

Do you think those are reasonable translations? I was trying to think of segments that were so big, they almost transcended professional wrestling. Segments that are referenced verbatim years after they happened. Segments that are shown as part of every documentary or clip show about the time period and company in which they occurred. In some cases, I feel like an A*/100 promo's impact has to be scaled to when and where it occurred - Foley's "Cane Dewey" happened in ECW, so even if it was (very arguably) the best promo cut in ECW, it's not like it could have changed everything the way Hogan's heel turn did.

 

Do you think I'm on the right track, to translate these as A*/100 rated? Are there other segments that you would hold as an example of an A*/100 rated segment?

[Dr_Avalanche]

<p>Your examples I would definitely think of as A* angles, but I think the game is a little too generous with A* angles to give it quite such an exclusive status. </p><p> </p><p>

Rather than era-defining, maybe I'd think of A* segments as the kind of stuff you'd include in a "year in review" show. Like "oh yeah, that was a sick burn by the Miz." Even in my QAW game, I probably have 10-15 A* segments my current game year.</p>

[Dr_Avalanche]

<p>Thinking about it a little more, I would ask this question: As a dynasty writer, how the heck do you write an angle that is supposed to be an A* segment? An entrance is easy - "the crowd goes nuts", but how do you write a promo that is supposed to be so outrageously good? </p><p> </p><p>

/Asking for a friend...</p>

[kingjames]

<p>Hey, I think I might know that friend! <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

I have a bit of that issue with my diary. Cherry Bomb can get 80+ on her promos when other people are cutting 65, tops. I guess, at least for diary writing, I do the ratings on a curve based on the sized of the promotion. A 100 promo in a Regional-sized promotion isn't likely to be as amazing as a 100 promo in a National-sized promotion. For diary writing purposes, I tend to think of a 100 promo in a Regional-sized promotion as being "wow, that was good enough to be a good segment on national TV!" whereas the 100 promo in a National-sized promotion would be a "We're going to be showing this as part of this worker's career highlights package, and everyone in wrestling is going to remember this one." It definitely takes the pressure down on me, as a writer of a Regional-sized promotion diary <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/cool.png.f00d2562b2c1d873a09323753efdb041.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Bigpapa42]

<p>I think you need to differentiate a little between the sheer quality of the promo on its own - which isn't really necessarily what makes it memorable - and the situation. A number of the ones listed in the OP aren't A* promos so much as A* angles because of the context. Take away the context, and the "3:16" KOTR promo isn't one of Austin's best (IMO) and Hogan's post-match declaration of the New World Order isn't his best either. </p><p> </p><p>

In TEW terms, its not just what is said but the momentum of the workers involved, the storyline heat, placement on the show.... it all connects together. </p><p> </p><p>

In diary writing terms, I usually don't worry too much about the grade in regard to what I'm presenting. If I have it my mind that his is an epic promo and want to write it as such, but it only scores a B+, I'm not gonna make it more mundane. And vice versa. So write it how you want it to be, and if it scores away above or way below, you can always contextualize that a bit to the reader if you feel the need.</p>

[kingjames]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Bigpapa42" data-cite="Bigpapa42" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42952" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think you need to differentiate a little between the sheer quality of the promo on its own - which isn't really necessarily what makes it memorable - and the situation. A number of the ones listed in the OP aren't A* promos so much as A* angles because of the context. Take away the context, and the "3:16" KOTR promo isn't one of Austin's best (IMO) and Hogan's post-match declaration of the New World Order isn't his best either. <p> </p><p> In TEW terms, its not just what is said but the momentum of the workers involved, the storyline heat, placement on the show.... it all connects together. </p><p> </p><p> In diary writing terms, I usually don't worry too much about the grade in regard to what I'm presenting. If I have it my mind that his is an epic promo and want to write it as such, but it only scores a B+, I'm not gonna make it more mundane. And vice versa. So write it how you want it to be, and if it scores away above or way below, you can always contextualize that a bit to the reader if you feel the need.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm with you - if I get a good idea, I'm not going to make it worse just because the segment scored lower. I think my problem winds up being when I don't really have all that great an idea for a segment, and it scores gangbusters. Then again, trying to find a rationalization for that is part of the fun and challenge of diary writing.</p><p> </p><p> You raise a good point, that context means everything. I mean, you could have Heath Slater cut an all-time classic promo on WWE Superstars, and it wouldn't mean anything, because Slater's a Lower Midcard worker (I'm feeling generous today) on a show that doesn't matter. It's actually why I left Jake Roberts off the list of A* promos - because as much as I believe Jake had the most compelling promos of the 1980s, from a delivery and storytelling point of view, he was a midcard guy cutting promos on midcard guys.</p><p> </p><p> I'd agree with Austin 3:16 and Hogan's nWo turn at Bash at the Beach as not being their strongest work, in terms of just the promos themselves. I think it's arguable that Hogan's gigantic pop + his ungodly momentum in WCW (did that man <em>ever</em> lose, or even look less than invicible for more than a single segment, even before dropping the red and yellow?) might have pushed that segment to a 100 rating - I mean, the fans pelted that ring with garbage, so the audience heat was definitely there and it was a national news story (slow news day, I guess?). Austin 3:16...you're right, that only became important in retrospect. Austin was a midcard worker with maybe slightly positive momentum who had just beat a broken-down midcard Jake Roberts in a fairly heatless match.</p><p> </p><p> The hard part for me, then, is rationalizing when there's a random 100 promo on a regular old show of no great importance with no build-up. Like, how often does that actually happen? I guess that's part of what's impossible to simulate - you can mechanically score 100, but there's no way for a computer to know some random John Cena promo against Wade Barrett on Smackdown shouldn't nail a 100 rating. Though maybe I'm just looking at how to interpret ratings the wrong way? That's entirely possible.</p>

[BrokenCycle]

That one time where The Rock walked to the ring on Smackdown in 2000 was definitely an A* rated segment. Just so awesome.

[Koholos]

I think you need to differentiate a little between the sheer quality of the promo on its own - which isn't really necessarily what makes it memorable - and the situation. A number of the ones listed in the OP aren't A* promos so much as A* angles because of the context. Take away the context, and the "3:16" KOTR promo isn't one of Austin's best (IMO) and Hogan's post-match declaration of the New World Order isn't his best either.

 

In TEW terms, its not just what is said but the momentum of the workers involved, the storyline heat, placement on the show.... it all connects together.

 

In diary writing terms, I usually don't worry too much about the grade in regard to what I'm presenting. If I have it my mind that his is an epic promo and want to write it as such, but it only scores a B+, I'm not gonna make it more mundane. And vice versa. So write it how you want it to be, and if it scores away above or way below, you can always contextualize that a bit to the reader if you feel the need.

 

How about something like the Raw is Jericho angle, then? Jericho does great mic work, it capitalizes on a build that had already been started, with a wrestler who is hot.

 

Or for Hogan, the angle when Andre rips his cross off on Piper's Pit?

[Poputt]

But when you pull a grade like that in a segment, what would that reflect? I've been trying to translate them to real-life examples, and these are what I was thinking might qualify at A*/100 grade Angle segments:

 

Dusty's "Hard Times" promo

Stone Cold's "Austin 3:16" speech

Hogan's promo after being revealed as the third man of the nWo

Mick Foley's "Cane Dewey" promo

CM Punk's "Pipe Bomb"

 

Do you think those are reasonable translations?

 

Not really, because the ratings are based too heavily on overness (popularity, gimmick quality, the crowd's enthusiasm, momentum, etc). Like, Shane McMahon's return promo this year probably would've gotten an A or A* if you translated the reaction of the live and TV crowd to the game, and Shane can definitely talk, but a lot of why people were so pleased with the segment was simply because Shane was there. If I play an oldschool mod and Vader gets an 80-90 on a promo, it's typically not because the mod maker gave him good mic skills, it's because he's just really over (because I love Vader and push the hell out of him).

 

I have a bit of that issue with my diary. Cherry Bomb can get 80+ on her promos when other people are cutting 65, tops. I guess, at least for diary writing, I do the ratings on a curve based on the sized of the promotion. A 100 promo in a Regional-sized promotion isn't likely to be as amazing as a 100 promo in a National-sized promotion. For diary writing purposes, I tend to think of a 100 promo in a Regional-sized promotion as being "wow, that was good enough to be a good segment on national TV!" whereas the 100 promo in a National-sized promotion would be a "We're going to be showing this as part of this worker's career highlights package, and everyone in wrestling is going to remember this one." It definitely takes the pressure down on me, as a writer of a Regional-sized promotion diary

 

Look man, I'm not telling you how to write your diary or anything, but you've got it totally backwards. If Cherry Bomb is cutting 80+ promos with D to C popularity, she's killing on the mic and wrestlers are trading tapes and saying "THIS is how you rock the stick, brother-jack-dude." That's actually a good example of what got Austin and Rock going. Not many people really knew or cared who they were but they killed it over and over until everyone knew, but in a smaller fed (by that I mean ECW of course) not as many people would've been tuning in so their exposure would've capped.

 

That one time where The Rock walked to the ring on Smackdown in 2000 was definitely an A* rated segment. Just so awesome.

 

Exactly.