Questions for HOI

[DiamondKnucklez]

I've been messing around with the Hall Of Immortals section for a bit and I've been wondering, what companies would you consider in real world are or were National size? Of course WWE and NJPW but are there or were there anymore than them two? So far I only got

 

WWE

NJPW

WCW

 

I've been wanting to say AJPW and TNA but I wouldn't know if they actually were or if they were, what time period they were.

 

Would you consider WWE's Royal Rumble Winner a point towards induction due to it's prestige?

 

Another question, would you consider any TNA World Heavyweight Championship reigns as a point towards induction?

 

Last question, which wrestlers would you consider National Icons?

 

Really trying to make my HoI legit as possible.

[MinimiMax]

I would say TNA was there briefly around the time Hulk Hogan came in but that's essentially what made them fall from that position. They really started emulating WWE at one point and I think that's kinda what pushed them up there a little bit since their own style was more of an indy type thing.

 

Royal Rumble, maybe a few years ago I would have said yes but these days it doesn't even seem so important anymore. When's the last time someone won the Royal Rumble who wasn't already a viable title contender? I'd say 2006 when Rey Mysterio won. It's just your everyday #1 contender's match these days.

 

TNA World Heavyweight title is a bit tricky to be honest. There are times when I would consider it more important than a world title in WWE but then again those times are overshadowed by the times it's nowhere near as important. So I guess that would make it not important enough to be considered in a HOI induction.

 

And for the last question, I think anyone who truly deserves it is probably already there.

[Peria]

I'd consider early TNA. Anything past... 2009, I wouldn't.

 

Royal Rumble is a main event title. So yes.

 

WWE/NJPW/WCW for sure. AJPW not sure, maybe before the incident.

 

For WWE National Icons would be... Stone Cold/The Rock/Hogan/Ric Flair/John Cena. I'd argue The Undertaker as well.

[FlameSnoopy]

I've been messing around with the Hall Of Immortals section for a bit and I've been wondering, what companies would you consider in real world are or were National size? Of course WWE and NJPW but are there or were there anymore than them two? So far I only got

 

WWE

NJPW

WCW

 

I've been wanting to say AJPW and TNA but I wouldn't know if they actually were or if they were, what time period they were.

 

TNA has never even been close to National. The company has always been notoriously hard to replicate in mods (weekly PPVs, writtens, national television coverage), but I personally wouldn't even set them as Cult. In my 2006 real world mod I've been creating from scratch, I have TNA as high-Regional and they have the nation-wide SpikeTV deal so they will reach low-Cult quite fast.

 

I'm no expert in puro, but one would assume AJPW in 1990s would count as National, before the 2000 exodus.

 

Would you consider WWE's Royal Rumble Winner a point towards induction due to it's prestige?

 

For (WWE's) Hall Of Fame, yes. For Hall Of Immortals, no.

 

Another question, would you consider any TNA World Heavyweight Championship reigns as a point towards induction?

 

Definitely no. Not one reign.

 

Last question, which wrestlers would you consider National Icons?

 

Hulk Hogan, The Rock, Steve Austin, El Santo, Konnan, (original) Místico.

[Terra Ryzin]

I've been messing around with the Hall Of Immortals section for a bit and I've been wondering, what companies would you consider in real world are or were National size? Of course WWE and NJPW but are there or were there anymore than them two? So far I only got

 

WWE

NJPW

WCW

 

I've been wanting to say AJPW and TNA but I wouldn't know if they actually were or if they were, what time period they were.

 

Would you consider WWE's Royal Rumble Winner a point towards induction due to it's prestige?

 

Another question, would you consider any TNA World Heavyweight Championship reigns as a point towards induction?

 

Last question, which wrestlers would you consider National Icons?

 

Really trying to make my HoI legit as possible.

 

1. To me, TNA have always been cult/regional, never making it quite to National, not anywhere close to WWE, NJPW, or how close WCW was at one point.

 

2. The Royal Rumble, to me legitimacy may seem questionable, but Austin, Hogan, and HBK were built as top guys in this, with Austin having 3 victories, Hogan 2, and HBK 2 as well I think. I think Triple H has 2 as well as Cena? .. I don't know, but it was used to establish top names, so do you think something used to establish top names should be prestigious.. ?

 

3. TNA, as I said in my first response, were never close to being anything of a National company, so no, TNA World Title Prestige may have been upped by the likes of Sting, AJ Styles and.. others? But the amount of bad have far outweighed the amount of good, but again it wouldn't matter either way as they're nowhere near national.

 

4. National Icons to me would be.. Anyone who comes straight to mind as a great, like Steve Austin, The Rock, Undertaker, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Jushin Thunder Liger (America's Popularity may be questionable tho, so maybe bad example.)

[FankuKaibutsu]

<p>I would argue that there were a few brief windows, each one not lasting for 6 months, where TNA had their stuff together, and their attendances and ratings were growing, and their product had good buzz, and it looked like they might finally be a viable alternative to WWE. You could frame this as TNA making it to national for a few months, before getting knocked back down to cult.</p><p> </p><p>

AJPW was definitely a National level company through the 80s and 90s, until the exodus. After that, NOAH picked up right where AJPW left off, and would have been classified as 'national' for a few years.</p><p> </p><p>

In a wider scope, All Japan Women were doing great in the late-80s through the mid-90s, drawing over 30,000 people to the Tokyo Dome at one point. CMLL, also, was huge in Mexico at various points through the 80s and 90s.</p>

[Bigpapa42]

<p>The problem with that, FankuKaibutsu, is your are referring to the functions of Momentum in TEW terms. Popularity is what dictates size, and I agree with FlameSnoopy - TNA has never been National in TEW terms. They never drew the kind of attendances and ratings that a national company would. Most of the stuff that TNA did manage - PPV deal, nation-wide TV deal, international coverage, written contracts - can all be done in-game at Cult. One of the common arguments for TNA being National is their popularity in regions like the UK.... but that doesn't make them National by US standards. That's hard to accomplish in TEW but not impossible. </p><p> </p><p>

I would also think All Japan in the 90s probably hit that level but I haven't looked up their attendances to be sure. That can be a touch misleading, but lots of companies can hit really strong attendances for one or two major shows, but they are not necessarily drawing well on a constant basis.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>AJPW (Mid 90s), CMLL (mid 00s, debatably a few years ago), and AAA (90s) were all national level at some point, though TNA never was. NOAH may have hit National for a very brief period in 04-05 during Kobashi's legendary reign, but once he temporarily retired due to cancer, they pretty much never sniffed it again.</p><p> </p><p>

For reference, AJPW had a really long streak of selling out Budokan Hall (~15,000) or coming close so I'd say that shows consistency. CMLL in the mid 2000s was incredibly hot to the point Mistico even won the best box office draw in Observer awards.</p>

[LigerLiger]

<p>Considering game terms, numbers from the promotions and some opinion, I'd say:</p><p> </p><p>

TNA was never National.</p><p>

WWE, of course, is pretty much International or Global right now.</p><p>

NJPW is Cult right now, but I'd consider them National from the late '70s to the late '90s.</p><p>

AJPW was National before the NOAH exodus.</p><p>

NOAH was briefly National during NJPW's fall from grace in the mid '00s before Misawa died.</p><p>

CMLL was National for most of it's existance before the rise of AAA</p><p>

AAA in their first years were National, and even did some succesful(and others not so much) shows in USA. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

Mexico is difficult becaus the promotions can be popular and to terrible numbers because their economy is/was a freaking rollecoaster. Historically, it has affected AAA more than CMLL because CMLL runs in arenas owned by them. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

I think out of TNA's WHC, off the top of my head, Sting, AJ, Kurt would be HOI-worthy. I'm probably taking out someone important. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

I won't give my opinions about National Icons because it's much more about opinion than anything(right, the entire post is). Also, I really can't name many big Lucha guys.</p>

[alvarasus]

National Icons: Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Randy Savage, Dusty Rhodes, Roddy Piper, Mil Mascaras, El Santo, Blue Demon, El Canek, Lou Thesz, Buddy Rogers, The Rock, Steve Austin, Japan: Terry Funk, Dory Funk Jr., The Sheik, Abdullah the Butcher, Antonio Inoki, Giant Baba, Bruiser Brody, Stan Hansen, Misawa, Masa Chono, Jushin Liger, The Great Muta, Jumbo Tsuruta, Riki Choshu, Rikizodan. Andre the Giant

[DiamondKnucklez]

Thanks for the feedback everyone, It's been really helpful for me getting this HoI section all sorted out