The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[Self]

I have two complaints about the tag match.

 

Way too many “near falls” and kicking out of finishers.

 

Also, AEW has a major issue in tag matches where the illegal man is in the ring waaayyyyy too long. To make matters worse the refs just let it happen. It’s idiotic and makes the refs look like fools while the announcers try covering up the wrestlers breaking the rules.

 

I went in expecting a lot, but it went two too long for my tastes. To me, the Buckshot/V-Trigger was the right time to end it. While I thought the One Winged Angel was cute, they had already hit the high note.

 

I'm cool with tag matches 'breaking down' after the hot tag and a few nearfalls, and the referee losing track of the legal man and saying 'screw it, go nuts!' but it shouldn't be happening every match, and it shouldn't be happening 2 minutes in. For a promotion with such visible referees (unlike WWE they have names) AEW sure like to make them look like incompetent buffoons. Even their beloved Aubrey.

[milamber]

They have a 10 count in tag matches in AEW. The heels usually distract the ref to gain more time. Title matches get more leeway because of their importance. Ultimately, it's down to the referee's discretion.

[Jaysin]

They have a 10 count in tag matches in AEW. The heels usually distract the ref to gain more time. Title matches get more leeway because of their importance. Ultimately, it's down to the referee's discretion.

 

Both teams are face and spent upwards of 30 seconds to a minute in the ring. It’s never enforced and it’s infuriating

[guyver3]

Both teams are face and spent upwards of 30 seconds to a minute in the ring. It’s never enforced and it’s infuriating

 

In the first 5 - 7 minutes the bucks have done this twice. Illegal man in the ring for an excess of 30 seconds and the ref only counted once even then it was a one count as the man was leaving the ring. This Ref was even stated to be a multi man match specialist which makes me afraid to see the amateurs. Refs also need to start counting when guys are outside the ring more than when it’s a spot. I also agree with self the buckshot/V trigger should’ve been the finish what came after didn’t add anything to the match and the crowd weren’t as hot.

[milamber]

In this age of social media abuse I wouldn't want to be the ref that throws out a title match, especially on PPV. I don't mind the leeway if it makes big matches more entertaining. I will agree that non-title matches should be better enforced or booked to contain less interference and extended tag team sequences.

[Derek B]

The funny thing is, it's not the ref's fault. While AEW have made a point of saying things like "we have a 10 count" and "the refs are using their discretion", it's ultimately all down to the wrestlers themselves. If they don't play by the rules and the ref hasn't been told to call it like a shoot (which AEW refs don't seem to have been told) then it's the in ring talent who are undermining the referee. It makes for some exciting and explosive in ring action (which AEW is all about) but it does make a lot of matches repetitive and feel inconsistent in the way rules are applied. Which can understandably make some people very frustrated.

 

It's one thing that the English commentary has always done a fairly good job of on NJPW shows. They explain why some referees will count things, giving each referee a little personality through their style of handling some incidents. So even when a match is deep into the crowd and the ref isn't counting, it's because no one involved in the match WANTS a count and the referee is deliberately letting it go. But as soon as one person is in the ring, or if neither wrestler is able to do anything on the outside as a result of a double down.... ref starts counting. And it's a very consistent 20 count out there, which is something I wish AEW had brought in too. I like the 20 count and the announcer counting along with it to make it obvious to everyone in the venue how close things get towards the end.

 

It's definitley something I think AEW are trying to do, but at the moment all the referees have the same very relaxed policy on counts, which makes a lot of tag matches in particular very samey. Using the refs more could make that more interesting and help to keep some of the spottier workers in line a bit.

[milamber]

They definitely should have gone with a 20 count outside the ring.

[BlueStar]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I have two complaints about the tag match. <p> </p><p> Way too many “near falls” and kicking out of finishers.</p><p> </p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This is why I don't dig Omega or the Old Bucks. It seems going from spot to spot about halfway, kicking out of everything, the other not selling anything storywise or on psychology...seems like 3 Lucha-Hogans going after eachother (if they start sitting-up and hulking-up this comparison would be complete).</p>

[codey_v2]

My biggest issue with them ignoring the ten count and staying in the ring is that there's spots where a guy is getting double teamed and the ref will block the other guys partner from getting in the ring and stopping it, making it look like they're blatantly biased. Kind of like when the ref let Cody whip MJF with the belt without calling for the DQ.

[crownsy]

My biggest issue with them ignoring the ten count and staying in the ring is that there's spots where a guy is getting double teamed and the ref will block the other guys partner from getting in the ring and stopping it, making it look like they're blatantly biased. Kind of like when the ref let Cody whip MJF with the belt without calling for the DQ.

 

Yea this is my only problem with it, it isn't consistent enough

 

Like, I get the story you were telling at some level with the Cody spot for example. I THINK what I was supposed to take from that was that MJF is such an Ahole that even the REFS are done with it. That works if they are normally consistent.

 

But because there's no consistency, it just looked like "stop it!!!" "uh....I'm the EVP" Ref: OK BOSS! your right!

[crownsy]

In the first 5 - 7 minutes the bucks have done this twice. Illegal man in the ring for an excess of 30 seconds and the ref only counted once even then it was a one count as the man was leaving the ring. This Ref was even stated to be a multi man match specialist which makes me afraid to see the amateurs. Refs also need to start counting when guys are outside the ring more than when it’s a spot. I also agree with self the buckshot/V trigger should’ve been the finish what came after didn’t add anything to the match and the crowd weren’t as hot.

 

disagree on that it didn't add anything, it added Page being able to beat the bucks on his own when Kenny couldn't, the same thing that happened with SCU.

 

The way i see this going is that the Bucks are going to keep being dinks to Hangman (a jobber in ROH, ect) and then Kenny is going to have to choose between trying to keep the band together and supporting his partner. And they can use the fact that BOTH TIMES Kenny tired to get the job done on his own, he failed, and it was the Hangman who beat SCU and the Bucks.

 

and then Kenny is in this spot where he's ticked off with the Bucks, but his tag team partner is ticking him off by saying he's the star of their team, not Omega.

 

Wheels within Wheels

[milamber]

Bonus Dark with a few post-Revolution promos and Riho/Yuka vs Britt/Ford. Fun match and it got the best crowd reaction to a Dark women's match since the intergender match on the Cruise.

 

[milamber]

- Love it when Mox gets fired up on the mic. Laughed at Jericho playing it cool while his theme played then making excuses and taking cheap shots at the crowd. One day he will shout "Cut my music!" and the crowd will go nuclear.

- SCU & Cabana vs Dark Order was good. Colt looking like he's having the time of his life out there LOL.

- I could see Swole feuding with Baker before calling out Nyla again for a title shot.

- Cody giving shout-outs to the crew during the break was nice. Jake Roberts as either Archer or Brodie Lee's manager! His voice has gone but he can still cut a good promo. Interesting to see Cody rattled. Even more interesting if he loses again and MJF keeps taunting him.

- Dustin vs PAC was good. OC attacked for heat is a weekly segment now LOL. Death Triangle for first Trios Champions!

- QT vs Hager was OK. The post-match had to be a setup for Blood & Guts. Page stole the segment of course.

- I was waiting for MJF to diss the tattoo.

- Jericho & Sammy vs Mox & Darby was MOTN. I liked Mox being taken out so Darby could get more shine.

 

 

What the show lacked in memorable matches it made up for with storytelling.

[Self]

I was so excited for this show, but found it kinda boring. Didn't help that I watched the version that kept going during the ad break. Boy it sucks the energy out of everything.

 

PAC vs chucky was so disappointing. I remember liking Taylor in PWG but he just looked slow and tired.

 

The Librarian is so bad. Looked lost in a 2 minute squash.

 

MJF promo was really good. And it was fun seeing Cabana.

[cappyboy]

What the show lacked in memorable matches it made up for with storytelling.

 

Yeah. We may have to agree to disagree here. Personally I found this to be the worst episode they've put out since Dynamite debuted. Now to be fair, AEW's worst is still far better than most companies' best. And if this can stay their floor, they will every reason to be happy about that. But given the high bar AEW usually sets, I found myself underwhelmed.

 

I know some may try to convince I don't have a complete picture because by some strange fluke, all my commentary was in Spanish rather than JR, Tony and Excalibur. But even that had its upside in the form of Dasha Gonzalez. I might not have been able to understand everything she was saying but the passion and energy she said it with was undeniable. You could tell she's not just there for the paycheck. That she had real juice for what she was seeing and seeking to share that with the audience

 

 

- Love it when Mox gets fired up on the mic. Laughed at Jericho playing it cool while his theme played then making excuses and taking cheap shots at the crowd. One day he will shout "Cut my music!" and the crowd will go nuclear.

 

Oh no doubt. Jericho will have the crowd ready to riot if and when he ever does that. And thankfully I was able to enjoy the interplay as promos were all in English for me even if commentary was not.

 

- SCU & Cabana vs Dark Order was good. Colt looking like he's having the time of his life out there LOL.

 

Agreed. Colt always puts a smile on my face. Dude really knows how to balance being fun and wacky with getting serious and getting down in the trenches when necessary. Been an SCU guy since Ring of Honor and Dark Order's gotten so much better since the recruitment videos started.

 

- I could see Swole feuding with Baker before calling out Nyla again for a title shot.

 

This is where the show started not resonating with me. Not losing out on Baker's promo would have been nice but I doubt it would have helped all that much. I just flat out didn't get the whole point of this segment. The best opponent you could find to put Big Swole against for this match was Leva Bates?!! Come on, man. That's a YouTube match for Dark. She couldn't have faced a Penelope Ford to get Sabian some screen/return the favor time? A Bea Priestley? A Sakazawa? Any of a dozen other women? It all felt like a big "Why bother?"

 

In terms of Swole v Nyla, I've heard worse ideas but this was the first women's match I would just as soon done without. And I've come to like Swole.

 

- Cody giving shout-outs to the crew during the break was nice. Jake Roberts as either Archer or Brodie Lee's manager! His voice has gone but he can still cut a good promo. Interesting to see Cody rattled. Even more interesting if he loses again and MJF keeps taunting him.

 

The very definition of a mixed bag segment for me. Loved Cody's parts up, down, left, right, sideways. But this was really all you could come up with for a icon of Jake's stature? Please tell me somebody's joking because this was a complete waste of his considerable talent.

 

So Jake's come to bring The Dark Side to AEW and he wants to use it to "slay" Cody? YAWN!!! I want to know who it is at AEW Creative that's obsessed with dark gimmicks and get them some help. In the past six months we've had The Nightmare Collective. The Butcher & The Blade. The Dark Order. We've been made privy to Darby Allin's worldview to demonstrate that one can be live in darkness but still have honor. And now we have MORE darkness coming? WOW! Either Jake is in-character Chief Quimby clueless about where he is or this needs a whole lot of construction before it's worth buying into.

 

I applaud Jake personally on his performance. It's not his fault he got stuck with such lemons to go out and deliver. And he sure made lemonade with them despite all that was against him. Including the state of his voice. It's just sad nobody could come up with something less cliche' for him to do. The man deserves so much better.

 

- Dustin vs PAC was good. OC attacked for heat is a weekly segment now LOL.

 

Reasonably solid I guess. MAtch was sound. The involvement of Best Friends and Orange Cassidy was pretty much what you'd expect it to be. And yet

 

Death Triangle for first Trios Champions!

 

And yet we had this. I'm sorry. I just don't get the union of the Lucha Bros and PAC. They are all great talent. No doubt about that. But I don't get the bond between them at all and it also seems to kill some of PAC's vibe. I thought the whole point of emphasizing what a bastard PAC is was to show he was a lone wolf by choice and couldn't really be bothered to get along with anybody. Now he's suddenly forming a faction with the Lucha Bros? Um okay I guess.

 

And this name. The Death Triangle. What newly emo middle schooler's lunchbox did they draw that out of? It boggles the mind a company as big as AEW wouldn't send that to a quick death. At least, Jake's concern sounds professional however misguided it might be. I've seen first time e-fedders come up with better names than this.

 

- QT vs Hager was OK. The post-match had to be a setup for Blood & Guts. Page stole the segment of course.

 

And at least this being on the big show made sense. Hager is the last Inner Circle member to compete. Plus you have the Rhodes ties to QT. So plenty of room for big names to rumble afterward as they did. I don't know I'd say Adam Page stole the segment. His part was pretty muh what you'd expect if you've been following along but not particularly better or worse than usual.

 

- I was waiting for MJF to diss the tattoo.

 

I'd just have been satisifed to have listened to the man in peace. Dasha's partner made this promo unlistenable by talking all over it. I tend to believe he was trying to translate for the Spanish speaking audience who needed his help. But I kept wishing I could mute him and keep MJF. The guy is an amazing promo and I kept screaming at the screen for the commentator to shut up so I could enjoy him. Eventually had to fast forward past it because that never happened,

 

- Jericho & Sammy vs Mox & Darby was MOTN. I liked Mox being taken out so Darby could get more shine.

 

Very good match for what it was but I'm of two minds when it comes to Darby being left to get more shine. On the one hand, I get the idea given that it is Darby Allin. We have seen his tenacity before and how well he fights against the odds. Against Jericho no less. If anyone was going to make being on the wrong end of a Guevara/Jericho 2 on 1 work it's Darby. And as things turned out, he did exactly that.

 

However, it kept feeling like somebody ought to run down and stand in for Mox. I couldn't concieve of the idea they'd really leave Darby out there all alone against Sammy and Jericho. With all the faces that have beef with the Inner Circle, surely someone would come to Darby's aid. Cody hadn't wrestled. Maybe Matt Jackson since he was apparently there without Nick. Or heck maybe even a debut. Talk about a perfect moment to have a new signee play the cavalry and get on people's radar right away. Didn't help that I thought I remembered them mentioning last week than Lance Archer was meant to debut this week. So there was someone specific to think that unexpected aid might be.

 

Moxley showing up at the end and saving the day was cool and felt so very him. But yet at the same time, it felt a little short and a little late. I understood he didn't leave Darby alone on purpose but it felt weird that AEW left him to it. Even as good as we know Darby is at fighting odds. All in all, just felt like the company had an off night by their standards.

[milamber]

The more I think about Jake's promo the more I love it, especially that parting line. Cody was shook. WWE bring out legends to bury new talent for cheap pops and ratings. AEW carefully slot them into roles that suit them.

 

 

Per Meltzer:

 

RE: Lance Archer - Not being on last night was a creative change. Does not know if it was related to Jake Roberts debut and Archer being his client.

 

RE: Brodie Lee/Luke Harper - Strongly presumes he is AEW bound but expects AEW to spread out all the possible debuts they have to make.

 

RE: Kenny Omega and Nick Jackson - Kenny Omega has a broken finger, wont require surgery but will require a cast. Doesn’t know when he’ll return but expects Kenny to work in a cast. Nick Jackson was off the show because his wife is pregnant and expected to give birth to their third child soon.

[Jaysin]

Just finished Dynamite and enjoyed the show for the most part. Especially Jake's promo.

 

It's weird they advertised Lance Archer debuting this week, but he was nowhere to be seen. Maybe he's Jake's disciple? I'd be ok with that as Lance isn't good on the mic. Maybe Archer and Brodie Lee are both Jake's charges? I don't know, but I love Jake and am so happy to see him clean and in a position to use his vast knowledge to help out a fledgling company.

 

MFJ had a good promo and I loved the knock on Cody's dumb neck tattoo.

 

I can't wait to see whose in the Blood & Guts match. War Games has always been one of my favorite match types.

[franticloser]

I'm guessing the Inner Circle (Jericho, Sammy, or maybe Hager, and Ortiz and Santana) vs. A combination of Moxley, Darby, and then either the Young Bucks, Page & Omega (could lead to a miscommunication or turn of one of them joining the Elite) or Kazarian and Scorpio Sky because while they currently have issues with Dark Order they also have gone up against the Elite.

 

The other option I see would be The Dark Order vs SCU and maybe CIMA since he is more or less an member. Leading to the reveal of the Exalted One.

[milamber]

Accidental repost

[crownsy]

So I got to sit down and watch the whole show last night, my two day late thoughts in no particular order:

 

Swole v. Bates - This was fine, but I agree with an alverez rant on this. The fact that they only work 4 shows a month and maybe a PPV is KILLING this division because they have a bunch of green, but potentially talented workers that never get to work with anyone who can teach them anything constantly. His point was I don't care if your working with Rick Flair, if you work 3 times a month for 10 minutes total, you'll improve but slowly. Wrestle him 3 times a week for 2 months at house shows, and you'll be leaps and bounds ahead.

 

Mox Promo and Main Event - I thought this was really good, and they had me swerved that Jericho would not come through on the promise and go on tour with Fozzy and make appearances by remote. Both promo's were great, and we advanced Darby who is clearly going to be in a Mox led faction.

 

Death Triangle - I like all these guys, I like that AEW is going the NJPW rout of everyone having a faction, but this name sucks. It sounds much better in Spanish lol.

 

Dark Order - This was fine, glad they are getting Colt over, but next week (or at best the week after) we need the revel to keep momentum going. Another 3 weeks or so of this and we'll be in emmalina territory with the Exalted one for teasing and not delivering.

 

Dustin and the Nightmare Family - I really enjoyed this, and I appreciate they are following up on the fact that Matt and Page hate each other now from the tag match. both guys have good points, if your Matt it's like "you spit in my face man, there's no coming back" and if your Page you feel like he's a judgmental prick who forced his brother to try to kill you (in the Tag match, Matt was the one that forced Nick to do the Meltzer Driver on the Ramp)

 

Good s all around here

 

Now, the Jake stuff....I'm of a mixed mind. It's good to see Jake and this promo was fine, but it really depends on the Client for me. Also I hope Jake was just doing his normal "dark Charisma" promo's (which I enjoy) and the "Dark one" is not ANOTHER gothic/horror act. there are far to many of those in AEW at the moment.

[cappyboy]

Hey guys, had an idea on the Shawn Spears tag team partner thing, But having only watched him in AEW, I need someone to tell me if it's totally out in left field. Is it possible the reason Spears hasn't found that partner yet is that AEW's waiting out someone who used to tag with him elsewhere? Is there a former indie partner or whatnot who has something of a name but isn't as exciting to talk about as a Lance Archer or a Brodie Lee? Maybe not as obvious a choice for AEW if he lacked the ties to Spears. This feels it could be a natural spot for a surprise signing like that.

[Jaysin]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="cappyboy" data-cite="cappyboy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Hey guys, had an idea on the Shawn Spears tag team partner thing, But having only watched him in AEW, I need someone to tell me if it's totally out in left field. Is it possible the reason Spears hasn't found that partner yet is that AEW's waiting out someone who used to tag with him elsewhere? Is there a former indie partner or whatnot who has something of a name but isn't as exciting to talk about as a Lance Archer or a Brodie Lee? Maybe not as obvious a choice for AEW if he lacked the ties to Spears. This feels it could be a natural spot for a surprise signing like that.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> To my knowledge, which isn’t the greatest to be fair, his only two tag partners of note were Cody Rhodes and Aaron Stevens/Damien Sandow in OVW.</p>

[milamber]

The only thing worth seeing on Dark was Shida's reactions to Abadon.

 

 

Dynamite:

 

- Hangman not beating around the bush. Ortiz vs Cody was good. I dug Archer's low-key debut. OMG they killed Nick!

- Statlander & Shida vs Bea & Nyla was good. This could lead to a triple threat #1 contender match. More tag matches is the solution if they can't find time for more women's matches.

- LOL Daniels.

- Butcher, Blade & MJF vs Jurassic Express was good. Aubrey best ref. I think Trios should be the main focus of the B Show.

- I like these Dr. Britt and Toné segments. Nice shout-out to Cedric and Adam.

- Janela & Private Party vs Death Triangle was great.

- Dustin's down for cowboy shit. Inner Circle vs Hangman & Dustin was good. Hype brawl but getting a little repetitive.

 

Good show. Every match felt like it had important storyline implications.

[Jaysin]

That Christopher Daniels anti Dark Order vignette was amazing.

 

How has no one referred to them as the Dork Order? It just popped in my head

[Self]

<p>Bit repetitive this week. Trios. Dives. Superplexes. </p><p> </p><p>

Not a very strong debut for Death Triangle, getting their asses kicked for 90% of the match against guys who barely get on the main show any more.</p>