The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[Dalton]

Look, they are not going to book somebody else against Omega at All Out. This is classic wrestling story-telling- the red-hot babyface has just been screwed out of a title opportunity by those no good cheating heels. There's seemingly NO WAY that they're going to get a title shot now. (Spoiler- they almost always find a way.)

 

I don't know man. I could totally see Kenny vs Hangman at Full Gear instead, bringing everything full circle after last year. I don't like it, because I think he should win at All Out, but it's not the worst idea.

[Mootinie]

Look, they are not going to book somebody else against Omega at All Out. This is classic wrestling story-telling- the red-hot babyface has just been screwed out of a title opportunity by those no good cheating heels. There's seemingly NO WAY that they're going to get a title shot now. (Spoiler- they almost always find a way.)

He wasn't cheated though, Omega just gave him a couple of V-triggers, a One Winged Angel and pinned him clean as a sheet haha.

 

I suspect that the All Out main event is MJF vs. Jericho, in which case I imagine the AEW title match will be something like Omega vs. Christian. More a TV title match than a PPV title match since the main event is set in stone and there is little point using a headline match in the undercard.

 

That, and Adam Page's wife is pregnant. I wonder if the feeling is that right now the timing isn't right to do this match and have him lose just as the timing isn't right to give him the belt if he's going to take paternity leave or a reduced schedule soon.

[soxfan93]

He wasn't cheated though, Omega just gave him a couple of V-triggers, a One Winged Angel and pinned him clean as a sheet haha.

 

Didn't Omega hit him with the World title?

[Matt_Black]

Didn't Omega hit him with the World title?

 

One of 'em, and THAT was after the eliminated Matt Jackson interfered, preventing Page from hitting the Buckshot.

[Peppermint Rage]

what is it with anti Deathmatch people and their inability to not bitch about it existing, and acting like it's somehow gonna hurt the show (and the business for that matter) Nick Gage did a very good number, and they put in on last so if it's not your thing (which is perfectly fine) you can stop watching having seen the rest of the show, one of the best things about AEW is that there's variety in the performers and they style of matches they put on, and that they don't shy away from any style. so if something's not your thing, something else on the show probably will be.

[Matt_Black]

And it's not like we hadn't seen crazy hardcore main events for the 3 prior weeks....

[Mootinie]

Didn't Omega hit him with the World title?

Yes but to be fair, Hangman did kick out of that. I definitely left with the feeling that he lost because he got V-triggered twice and then hit with the One Winged Angel but if others think it's one of those where the babyface has an excuse for losing then that's fair enough.

[Matt_Black]

Certainly, the announce team was selling it like Hangman was robbed. Admittedly, this wouldn't be the first time some think there's a discrepancy between what the announcers say and what's being seen on-screen.

[Jaysin]

According to reports, if Punk actually does show up in AEW, he's able to use "Cult of Personality" if he so chooses.

 

The pop he'd receive regardless is going to be huge in Chicago, but man, if he comes out to that the place is going to erupt.

[CQI13]

According to reports, if Punk actually does show up in AEW, he's able to use "Cult of Personality" if he so chooses.

 

The pop he'd receive regardless is going to be huge in Chicago, but man, if he comes out to that the place is going to erupt.

 

Never understood people who put so much stock on the entrance music, like people going nuts that Hardy finally got his music back. To each their own on that, probably not meant to understand it.

[Jaysin]

Never understood people who put so much stock on the entrance music, like people going nuts that Hardy finally got his music back. To each their own on that, probably not meant to understand it.

 

Entrance music sets the mood.

[crownsy]

Yes but to be fair, Hangman did kick out of that. I definitely left with the feeling that he lost because he got V-triggered twice and then hit with the One Winged Angel but if others think it's one of those where the babyface has an excuse for losing then that's fair enough.

 

I mean they murdered him 3 v 1 for like 10 minutes, and Kenny hit him with a belt right before the knees and Vtriggers into the one winged

 

If anything, the story I took from this was the dark order is not on the Elites level, and Hangman can't do it all on his own, not that Page was a non-threat. They made him look unstoppable once it was 3 v 1

[Jaysin]

I would love it if one of Jericho's labors was Lance Storm.

[Derek B]

(sorry ahead of time, this post got LONG)

 

I mean they murdered him 3 v 1 for like 10 minutes, and Kenny hit him with a belt right before the knees and Vtriggers into the one winged

 

If anything, the story I took from this was the dark order is not on the Elites level, and Hangman can't do it all on his own, not that Page was a non-threat. They made him look unstoppable once it was 3 v 1

 

Just a general feel of what I took from it....

 

The Dark Order weren't even ranked for the AEW tag titles (I think) going into the match, with John Silver just returning from injury too. The Elite by comparison were made up of the AEW World champion, the AEW World tag champions and a highly decorated tag team for a 5 v 5 match against a team that had one half of some former tag team champions. On paper, it's a mismatch going into the match, one put together by Kenny Omega as a way to try to duck Hangman's challenge.

 

Then the match itself plays out... Hangman is working WITH the Dark Order but he is not PART of the Dark Order. The opening vignette (super cool) makes it clear that he's on his own but getting help from others, and even the pose on the ring has Hangman do his own taunt whie the Dark Order does their's. They're close, but they're not together. And may never be. While the Elite are a unified team, shenanigans and all.

 

The Elite have more experience together and more accomplishments between them. It shows and when the most popular duo of Hangman and Silver are left they are against AEW's champions. Silver gets overwhelmed in comically Elite fashion and we're all left thinking... how does Hangman overcome the AEW tag champs and World champ on his own?

 

Well... he doesn't. But goshdarnit, he goes down fighting and even managed to beat one of the tag champions. He does what a bunch of other tag teams haven't been able to do by scoring a fall on them (Mox/Kingston managed this, but couldn't do it again) which puts him in an elite class too alongside former champion, Jon Moxley. He got his ass kicked but he kept fighting untli he fell to the World champion's finisher that has never been kicked out of (shhhh!) and lost a handicap match.

 

He showed he was on a championship level but he couldn't beat three champions at once. I don't know where they plan to go next, but Hangman has so many story directions going forward....

 

He might blame Dark Order for him failing. He might blame himself for failing. He might accept that failing happens, and choose to go it alone. He might accept failure and choose to work more closely with Dark Order. He might try to help raise the Dark Order to another level while he's not able to challenge for the title. He might head down the anxious millenial cowboy route again, with or without support from others. The important thing is the story... how is he going to react to another major loss, especially when he had so much shine on him and it's almost impossible to fault him. He did everything he could in the situation short of becoming an actual superhuman. He was basically tricked out of a 1 on 1 match with someone that he's been shown of being potentially able to beat. What's next for him?

 

Which is the hook, right? I think anyone watching AEW wants to know what's next for him, where does he go now? I think 99% of the AEW fanbase are behind the character, which is no mean feat with modern wrestling fans. Is he stronger mentally now than he was with The Elite? Can he turn things around? Will he one day be the person to defeat Kenny Omega and become world champion?

 

Also... if not Hangman for All Out, then who? There are some dream matches and I'm sure we're going to get a clue soon on who is going to be challenging there. And there's so much stuff going with the hype around Bryan Danielson and CM Punk just now... AEW has so many hooks to get people interested, it's an exciting time to be a wrestling fan.

[aXminster]

That was a great post, Derek B.

 

This storyline is the best one in a loooong time. I feel like Hangman is gonna blame himself for this loss, but The Dark Order is not turning his back on him like The Elite did. This match was all about confidence. He had lost all his confidence until The Dark Order made him believe himself again. It's going to be cool to see where they take the story next.

[Jaysin]

Kingston and Mox didn't beat the Bucks, Kingston and Penta did

[Derek B]

Kingston and Mox didn't beat the Bucks, Kingston and Penta did

 

You are correct, my bad on that. Still, Penta is a former AAA, Lucha Underground and Impact champion I think. With two of those currently held by Omega, it can still put the idea into the heads of fans that Hangman is up there.

 

.....

 

As for an All Out opponent, the logical challenger just now is Christian Cage, who is in the middle of a rivalry with Matt Hardy that is still going on now. I don't see him as an All Out level main event guy within AEW yet so I'm still left wondering who is goig to be challenging Omega there. With talk of Bryan and Punk coming in it could be them.... though Bryan's last appearances saw him beaten comprehensively by Roman Reigns, while Punk hasn't wrestled in seven years so I don't think it should be either of them. Cody CAN'T challenge.... and Hangman looks out of contention just now... I don't think there's anyone else on the AEW roster just now in position to credibly challenge which makes me think there is likely to be an outside challenger who could go for that. Two names spring to mind from NJPW as having history with Omega who could be at that level.... Kota Ibushi and Kazuchika Okada. Either would be huge. But I'm not sure either should either.

 

I wonder who is next for the AEW title?

[Big Roguey]

If Punk or Bryan walk into AEW and get a title shot straight away then what's the point of the ranking system?

[crownsy]

If Punk or Bryan walk into AEW and get a title shot straight away then what's the point of the ranking system?

 

one assumes they would have to win a battle royal or something, the rankings system is more a guideline than a rule TBH.

 

Like for instance, do you feel like getting 20 wins on dark no one saw made Frankie and Daniels the number one team in the division? cause they were going into that match with the bucks.

[scmurph01]

Hangman/DO not winning was acceptable for me. But I would have had Hangman pin Omega and then lose to whichever Buck was left in the match (via Elite shenanigans). That way you have the win or else stipulation coming into play but now Hangman has the fact that he pinned Omega to fall back on and use to get Kenny to agree to a title match.

[Derek B]

I like the battle royale winners getting title shots... makes for some interesting title matches, though no one is converting those into title wins yet. There could definitely be a storyline somewhere down the line where Hangman wins one of them to earn a title shot, mirroring how he won the first one before he came up short to Jericho to crown the first ever champion.

 

I also want to add that as much as we are buliding up Hangman, we're also cementing Omega as a top guy with a finisher so deadly that no one can kick out of it. Doesn't matter who you are, the One Winged Angel WILL put you down. And by building that move up even more, if someone like Hangman were to kick out of it if/when he challenges again ESPECIALLY after falling to it before, it'll show he's elevated himself to another level that no-one else has ever been on before (shhh Ibushi). Sometimes you gotta eat the fall so you can rise up even further later.

 

That said, I was still massively surprised when Hangman and Dark Order lost. But AEW are telling stories I like and clearly believe they can do more to make the payoff even better. They're not perfect, but I trust them to deliver on most things.

[Jaysin]

There has been one person to kick out of the One Winged Angel and for some reason it's completely ignored.

[soxfan93]

Finally someone remembers Kota Ibushi!

[Jaysin]

I always remember Kota Ibushi

[Derek B]

No, no.... we don't talk about that here. Shhhhhhhhhh!!!

 

It is weird though. I don't know why AEW don't acknowledge it other than to try to pretend it has never happened before and try to add more value. But given that the smart fans they appeal directly to know this kind of thing, it's a strange move.

 

There are only two payoffs I can see from ignoring it are either Kota Ibushi himself being in AEW to draw attention to it (and who doesn't want Omega vs Ibushi?) or someone else kicks out of it in AEW at some point to become "first".