The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[Jaysin]

<p>Supposedly PAC vs Hangman Page is no longer happening due to PAC refusing to lose.</p><p> </p><p>

Not the first time PAC has thrown a hissy fit about putting someone over.</p>

[milamber]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Supposedly PAC vs Hangman Page is no longer happening due to PAC refusing to lose.<p> </p><p> Not the first time PAC has thrown a hissy fit about putting someone over.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Meltzer is on a Twitter spree trying to spin whatever story he's heard to anyone who says otherwise. Something about doing the match and angle in Wrestle Gate (which will be free to watch on Youtube soon) because doing it all Double or Nothing would screw up long term booking. Others like Rovert are claiming it's a cover for visa issues. Another report says AEW knew the match would be off long before the TV deal but kept quiet.</p><p> </p><p> Keep in mind PAC is Dragon Gate Champion and has remained undefeated in all matches since winning it no matter the promotion. His plan is to build up the prestige then put someone over big when he finally drops the title. IMO, Page doesn't need to win the match unless he's being pushed straight into the main event instead of a slow build, which I think is a mistake. But he's tight with The Elite and Tony Khan is a huge fan of him.</p><p> </p><p> Along with the expensive PPV price they are in crap storm they don't need. This needs to be officially cleared up ASAP.</p><p> </p><p> UPDATE:</p><p> </p><p> <em>Meltzer said that the problem wasn’t necessarily this match. He even says he thinks PAC was going to go over Hangman. The issue is that he’s made it known he won’t lose until he drops the DG title, so no matter what they decided to move him into after this he’d have to win. And because wins and losses will matter so much, he’d logically have to begin beating more important guys that they don’t necessarily want him to beat. So they used this to write him off until he drops the DG title, then he’ll be back.</em></p><p> </p><p> Still no excuse for this given that he's been Champion for 6 months so AEW and Dragon Gate should have figured this out months ago.</p>

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="milamber" data-cite="milamber" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Meltzer is on a Twitter spree trying to spin whatever story he's heard to anyone who says otherwise. Something about doing the match and angle in Wrestle Gate (which will be free to watch on Youtube soon) because doing it all Double or Nothing would screw up long term booking. Others like Rovert are claiming it's a cover for visa issues. Another report says AEW knew the match would be off long before the TV deal but kept quiet.<p> </p><p> Keep in mind PAC is Dragon Gate Champion and has remained undefeated in all matches since winning it no matter the promotion. His plan is to build up the prestige then put someone over big when he finally drops the title. IMO, Page doesn't need to win the match unless he's being pushed straight into the main event instead of a slow build, which I think is a mistake. But he's tight with The Elite and Tony Khan is a huge fan of him.</p><p> </p><p> Along with the expensive PPV price they are in crap storm they don't need. This needs to be officially cleared up ASAP.</p><p> </p><p> UPDATE:</p><p> </p><p> <em>Meltzer said that the problem wasn’t necessarily this match. He even says he thinks PAC was going to go over Hangman. The issue is that he’s made it known he won’t lose until he drops the DG title, so no matter what they decided to move him into after this he’d have to win. And because wins and losses will matter so much, he’d logically have to begin beating more important guys that they don’t necessarily want him to beat. So they used this to write him off until he drops the DG title, then he’ll be back.</em></p><p> </p><p> Still no excuse for this given that he's been Champion for 6 months so AEW and Dragon Gate should have figured this out months ago.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Good to see their stupid sportsfight poop is already causing problems.</p>

[shawn michaels]

The wins and losses will matter stuff, complete with possible points and ranking is just...baffling. It's wrestling, not the NFL or MLB.

[Derek B]

<p>Why is it baffling? Wrestling is a drama presented as a sport.... having more sporting elements makes perfect sense. It also adds more to each match when you know that it can actually lead to something, which is far more than you can say ever happens on Raw and Smackdown. When stories make repetitive matches, shows become repetitive... when it's more about wins and losses, there's more incentive to have a variety of matches that should make shows more diverse and awesome.</p><p> </p><p>

At least in theory. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[guyver3]

Wins and losses being tracked can be good it adds drama easily. Is this underdog with no wins finally going his or her first and likewise the meeting of undefeated guys. However after say 3 years are they going to still be tracking it from the beginning or go with the last say 6 months. Eventually you’ll see guys with 77-41 records which makes it harder to get interested in for me at least.

[shawn michaels]

Why is it baffling? Wrestling is a drama presented as a sport.... having more sporting elements makes perfect sense. It also adds more to each match when you know that it can actually lead to something, which is far more than you can say ever happens on Raw and Smackdown. When stories make repetitive matches, shows become repetitive... when it's more about wins and losses, there's more incentive to have a variety of matches that should make shows more diverse and awesome.

 

At least in theory.

 

That's just my opinion. It's not baffling for them to be made important or matter, to an extent, but when I watch wrestling I don't wanna watch major league baseball with stats and boards and whatnot. They used to matter in WWE, take for example RA era. No official track record was needed and we still cared when someone lost or won. That's pretty much how i like wrestling to be presented. Trending towards some realism, obviously, but with storyline/entertainment elements over league tables. WWE used to do it right, but now...damn.

 

Idk, let's see where AEW takes this.

[Makhai]

Why is it baffling? Wrestling is a drama presented as a sport.... having more sporting elements makes perfect sense. It also adds more to each match when you know that it can actually lead to something, which is far more than you can say ever happens on Raw and Smackdown. When stories make repetitive matches, shows become repetitive... when it's more about wins and losses, there's more incentive to have a variety of matches that should make shows more diverse and awesome.

 

At least in theory.

 

This has been attempted many, many times throughout history. In the end, how it always goes is fans get fatigued with unimaginative matchmaking, bad matchups between styles that aren't compatible happen and you wind up having Goldberg having to wrestle a Vader and having to figure out a way out of it with either an injury angle, or something else that just irritate your fans.

 

That's just the on-camera issues. Behind the scenes, wrestlers get to see where they stand, and as you can imagine, if Joey Janella gets ranked in last, he's not going to be real happy. This causes backstage problems and causes headaches. This is stuff that rips apart cards in real combat sports. Stars stayed away from each other in boxing, and let their sport die because of it. Match-making in shootfighting is really complex and hard. Wrestling is a much easier and more fluid thing. It's to its benefit, not its detriment.

 

I'll speak for myself here, but yes I want wins and loss to matter in the nebulous sense, but I don't want wins and loss to be the end-all-be-all. I like watching underdog babyfaces job their ways up the card, I like watching monster heels clobber lower ranked guys and it not hurt them as they do it because they can sell their way up the card(See: Elsworth in WWE)

 

Wrestling is a performance art and entertainment medium. You use storylines and characters to make people cheer and boo, the truly great make them laugh and jeer, and the absolutely special can move them to tears. You build around competition over the things everybody wants in life, spouses, money, power, self-preservation, a need to be loved, to be respected by their peers, and the goal to be the very best in the world at the thing you do. You make a championship that tells everyone in the back who that person(or people) is and you never let anyone who you couldn't say with a straight face is the very best you have to offer hold it.

 

You don't want to gimmick that up. You don't want to pretend to be something you're not. Wrestling is predetermined, it just makes people think you're trying to grift them when you try and work it otherwise. And with guys like Kenny, Daniels, and the Bucks on that roster I can't believe they don't know this is going to suck.

[LoganRodzen]

I'm really interested to check it out. I think they have a really solid group of people who have worked in multiple promotions and seen things run differently. When you have a chance to see the inter-workings of something, you tend to find ways that could be done more efficient, simple, or just downright better. I have a feeling we're going to see something that looks familiar, but has elements incorporated that we've never seen in wrestling before. I'm definitely rooting for them. This is an exciting thing for wrestling (the wrestlers and fans both) in general.

[Greylocke]

Less than 1 day to the company's debut show (I don't count All In since that was more of a multi-brand Supershow that also included NWA/ROH/New Japan input)! Still cautiously optimistic at the moment and hoping that this will restore some of my interest in the American Wrestling scene (which had been at an all-time low ever since Lucha Underground was seemingly on its deathbed).

[Makhai]

Less than 1 day to the company's debut show (I don't count All In since that was more of a multi-brand Supershow that also included NWA/ROH/New Japan input)! Still cautiously optimistic at the moment and hoping that this will restore some of my interest in the American Wrestling scene (which had been at an all-time low ever since Lucha Underground was seemingly on its deathbed).

 

I'm honestly stunned LU survived as long as it did with literally no way to make any money. The original idea literally was just wrestling soap opera show and nothing else, on a network that wasn't covering costs. Like, don't run a wrestling company without a business plan folks.

 

Anywho, I've been kinda slow playing this week, the buzz really hasn't been that big on social media, seems Starrcast was a bit of a bummer with no Flair, Taker or Angle that were advertised, and I really feel like the show hinges on what happens in that Battle Royale. If somebody big doesn't come out of that thing that changes the face of the company I feel like people could turn on this. The real-sport thing really has people cold on them right now. And I can't believe they're going to throw this opportunity away so we can re-run Mid-South 81. I'm hearing all sorts of things about time limits, and prize money and it all just sounds like the very worst of wrestling.

 

Everything has just been so depressing, and the product pitch has just sucked the life out of me. I've gone from all-in to drawing dead in days. They need to show me some good friggen wrestling and just stop talking.

[Blackman]

I'm hearing all sorts of things about time limits, and prize money and it all just sounds like the very worst of wrestling.

 

Oh god. Please don't let them try anything weird. TNA tried all sorts of 'fresh' takes on the pro wresling business, and they all failed miserably.

[Jaysin]

I’m hoping Hangman is one of the mystery entrants in the battle royale and wins. No one that’s been announced are big enough names to be in the title picture.

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I’m hoping Hangman is one of the mystery entrants in the battle royale and wins. No one that’s been announced are big enough names to be in the title picture.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> They've announced 17 people so far, that are charity cases and geeks. so 4 surprise entrants if my math is right. I'm assuming one is going to be like... Nash or something like that because he's there and why not? And then one will probably be somebody really dumb like Leva Bates or Dashwood or something, then we'll get the fake "Big surprise" which will probably be Hangman or like Lethal or something, after that it's gotta be the big fish, they're streaming this thing free on B/R so they clearly have something they want everybody to be able to see.</p><p> </p><p> You would think it's Moxley, it could be a NJ guy, but I doubt they'd be this excited to show the general audience a NJ guy. So it's either CM Punk or it's Moxley, IMO. Anything short of that will probably get a disappointed reaction considering how big they've built this up. I think the dark horse pick would probably be John Morrison because I could see them pitching "He's got WWE credibility with independent street cred" and to be fair to Johnny Elite, he'd have a wonderful match with Omega or Jericho. But he's gonna get crapped on if he's the guy.</p>

[Jaysin]

CM Punk is over 300 miles away doing commentary for an MMA event and Moxley is filming a movie.

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>CM Punk is over 300 miles away doing commentary for an MMA event and Moxley is filming a movie.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> And Ronda was in South America for Wrestlemania, right? She even tweeted the day of, then hopped a red-eye.</p>

[Jaysin]

The MMA event is going on at the same time as Double Or Nothing. You're setting yourself up to be disappointed.

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The MMA event is going on at the same time as Double Or Nothing. You're setting yourself up to be disappointed.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> No, I'm just following their booking, like they want me to. The entire Road to Double or Nothing was basically just 3 matches, with HEAVY emphasis on this Battle Royale. They put the first title shot on the line, I didn't do that but by doing it, they've told you that the winner has to be on the level of Omega and Jericho. </p><p> </p><p> Who could that be? A very small list. They know casuals are going to be curious, they want people to pay $50 for PPVs moving forward, how do you do that? I'm not putting anything on this but the expectations they've set for themselves. If they don't meet them, who's fault is this?</p>

[milamber]

The Battle Royale winner only gets a title shot because of the PAC situation. Supposedly PAC would have beaten Hangman and faced Omega but Dragon Gate kept the title on PAC so he couldn't lose to Omega. Now I could see Jericho winning and Hangman winning the Battle Royale. I would be OK with someone like Havoc or Janela winning instead. They have one more PPV before All-In 2 to make the #1 Contender look credible. I'm not expecting Moxley in the Battle Royale. He's more likely to run in at the end and attack Omega or they'll save him for the next PPV.

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="milamber" data-cite="milamber" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The Battle Royale winner only gets a title shot because of the PAC situation. Supposedly PAC would have beaten Hangman and faced Omega but Dragon Gate kept the title on PAC so he couldn't lose to Omega. Now I could see Jericho winning and Hangman winning the Battle Royale. I would be OK with someone like Havoc or Janela winning instead. They have one more PPV before All-In 2 to make the #1 Contender look credible. I'm not expecting Moxley in the Battle Royale. He's more likely to run in at the end and attack Omega or they'll save him for the next PPV.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If this is where their headspace is right now, the WWE has absolutely nothing to worry about.</p>

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="milamber" data-cite="milamber" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The Battle Royale winner only gets a title shot because of the PAC situation. Supposedly PAC would have beaten Hangman and faced Omega but Dragon Gate kept the title on PAC so he couldn't lose to Omega. Now I could see Jericho winning and Hangman winning the Battle Royale. I would be OK with someone like Havoc or Janela winning instead. They have one more PPV before All-In 2 to make the #1 Contender look credible. I'm not expecting Moxley in the Battle Royale. He's more likely to run in at the end and attack Omega or they'll save him for the next PPV.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> They pinned all there build on a Battle Royale of jabronis and now a jabroni is wrestling for the world title. We're off to a great start. The match itself was fun though, they blatantly stole WWE booking of all of their throwaway mania rumbles in a match to crown a #1 contender so that's kinda sad. No idea why they gave this a title shot though. At least put Dreamer over, somebody has heard of him.</p>

[Jaysin]

How is Hangman a jabroni?

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>How is Hangman a jabroni?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> How do you think he's not? He's clearly the X-Pac of The Elite.</p>

[Jaysin]

Hangman rules. Get out of here.

[Jaysin]

Awesome F’n Kong!!!!