CornellVerse 2020

[ChairToFace]

I have been thinking about the CVerse idea and an idea that incorporates the new Child Company feature.

 

Now the initial idea is DIW gets acquired by RAW. Of course The Comedian wouldn't be keen on the idea, but reaching retirement, RAW make an offer that he can't just knock back as well as promising him a future TV Title reign as part of his new contract. For RAW it is introducing more edgy wrestlers to the RAW roster for the modern day fan base and getting a feeder company.

 

It would be great to see RAW forced with giving The Comedian a title shot/reign to see off his career. As well as RAW cleaning out DIW roster and introducing more rough youthful guys and getting rid of any bad eggs. (Looking at you Cesar). A fitting way for The Comedian to leave the business. Giving up a fight he did for so long, to become relevant in mainstream wrestling, if just for a moment than to have DIW die and be a footnote.

 

------------

 

Now realistically The Comedian would never do that and RAW would never offer that to DIW due to the stark differences in Product. However it would make sense for APW to be sold to RAW as a Child Company. J. J. McAllister (Is that his name not on PC) made APW to unite Australian Wrestling. It was unsuccessful due to the emergence of RAW. So it makes sense for him to cut his losses and sell the place. RAW would have no issues as the place is already a glorified breeding ground for its talent with picking up anyone of nkte. With somewhat similar products.

 

This does sound interesting. For DIW, I think they'll just be dead by 2020, with most of their talent going to APW or a new company. Older guys like The Comedian or Big Jim Teasdale might be out of the business.

 

I could certainly see RAW buying APW. Perhaps they massively raid the company and ultimately force it to sell to them. They turn it into their child company with a vastly different product, making people like APW over RAW, since APW has better wrestling than RAW, similar to WWE and NXT. However, without RAW, APW is dead.

[HiPlus]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Steven James" data-cite="Steven James" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46550" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This does sound interesting. For DIW, I think they'll just be dead by 2020, with most of their talent going to APW or a new company. Older guys like The Comedian or Big Jim Teasdale might be out of the business. <p> </p><p> I could certainly see RAW buying APW. Perhaps they massively raid the company and ultimately force it to sell to them. They turn it into their child company with a vastly different product, making people like APW over RAW, since APW has better wrestling than RAW, similar to WWE and NXT. However, without RAW, APW is dead.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Oh don't get me wrong I definitely agree with you. DIW will most likely close it's doors when or shortly after The Comedian retires. I mean he will be 44 by the time the next game comes out. I could see Jim handing over the book if DIW is still active, but not retiring from CC.</p><p> </p><p> Imo Australia has too much hardcore talent for that to go to waste, if DIW shut its doors I would hope a new fed reopened in its place.</p>

[ChairToFace]

Little thought about hardcore companies. What if Big Magic leaves GSW and forms an MMA/hardcore hybrid to combat GSW and IPW?

[scorpion]

years ago I created a promotion for my game called EVAD- Evolution of Violence And Danger

I think that "The Supreme Star" Spencer Spade is still forgotten developement and that a Cult Entertainment promotion named EVAD is active in the Tri State area.

[BigINMoldova]

So I hate to bring up an old fight but I think it's worth mentioning, The Cornellverse has a real problem with old wrestlers. I know there's a massive debate about whether or not time decline is real or not but I think it is and I think I can prove it pretty easily.

 

 

These are the last MOTYs as voted on by the Observer and the age of the participants involved in them at the time they occurred.

 

 

2018: Kenny Omega (34) vs. Kazuchika Okada (30) -Two out of three falls match

 

2017: Kenny Omega (33) Vs Kazuchika Okada (29)

 

2016: Kazuchika Okada (28) Vs Hiroshi Tanhashi (40)

 

2015: Shinsuke Nakamura (34) Vs Kota Ibushi (33)

 

2014: AJ Styles (37) Vs Minoru Suzuki ( 46)

 

2013: Hiroshi Tanahashi (38) Vs Kazuchika Okada (26)

 

2012: Hirohsi Tanahashi (37) Vs Minoru Suzuki (44)

 

2011: CM Punk (33) Vs John Cena (34)

 

2010: The Undertaker (45 ) Vs Shawn Michaels (45)

 

2009: The Undertaker (44 ) Vs Shawn Michaels (44)

 

So of the last twenty people involved in the Match Of The Year, Only seven were over the age of forty when the match took place.

 

 

So 35% percent which isn't terrible but that's only one measurement. Let's see what percentage of wrestlers of the year were over 40 in the last ten years. Since some people have problems with The Observer, I'll also use PWI's ranking as well.

 

 

2018:

 

WON WOTY: Kenny Omega (34)

 

PWI #1: Kenny Omega (34)

 

2017:

 

WON WOTY: Kazuchika Okada (29)

 

PWI # 1: Kazuchika Okada (29)

 

2016:

 

WON WOTY: AJ Styles ( 39)

 

PWI #1: Roman Reigns (31)

 

 

2015:

 

WON WOTY: AJ Styles (35)

 

PWI #1: Seth Rollins (30)

 

2014:

 

WON WOTY: Shinsuke Nakamura (33)

 

PWI #1: Daniel Bryan (33)

 

2013:

 

WON WOTY: Hiroshi Tanahashi (37)

 

PWI #1: John Cena (36)

 

 

2012:

 

WON WOTY: Hiroshi Tanahashi (36)

 

 

PWI #1: CM Punk (34)

 

2011:

 

WON WOTY: Hiroshi Tanahashi (35)

 

PWI #1: The Miz (31)

 

2010:

 

WON WOTY: John Cena (34)

 

PWI #1: AJ Styles (33)

 

2009:

 

WON WOTY: Chris Jericho (39)

 

PWI #1: HHH (40)

 

 

I feel like this is pretty conclusive. Only a single wrestler has been ranked number one on PWI's top 500 list who was over 40 in the ten last years and no wrestler has won the Observer's wrestler of the year who was over 40 in the last decade.

 

In fact, the last person to win the Observer WOTY who was over 40 at the time they won it was Ric Flair in 1992 and he's the only wrestler over 40 to win the award in its entire 39-year history.

 

 

I think this proves the common knowledge of wrestling correct, Wrestlers tend to peek in their 30s except for a very small number of outliers who excel into their forties.

 

I feel like Minoru Suzuki and Shawn Michaels ar less examples of the average and more The exception that proves the rule.

[Matt_Black]

Counterpoint- Dustin Rhodes is 50, and he was on the shorlist for Match of the Year back in May.

[Self]

I think it exists, but TEW punishes it too hard in popularity promotions, and it can be minimized/overcome with great psychology/experience.

 

I absolutely believe that when wrestlers hit a certain age their stats should go down, but the cream of the crop can still be amazing giving good booking, storylines, and psychology. Goldust is doing great. Matt Hardy isn't delivering what he used to.

[Teh_Showtime]

The difference is the Cverse is all numbers unfortunately

 

People like Jushin Luger or Minoru Suzuki or Negro Casas, etc still have the talent to be among the best, but in reality fans don’t necessarily want to see the old guys at the top as much, and companies realize they need new guys there due to the inevitability of retirement of severe decline.

 

TEW on the other hand has zero incentive to depush old legends so long as they are still able to deliver consistently. I do feel the AI has gotten a lot better at pushing young talent and seems even better in that regard, but the old guys always have the psychology to remain relevant and deliver beyond their expected lifespan.

 

It’s why before the evolution of the world, NOTBPW used to reign for years and dominate MOTY lists with their over 40 club of legends mixing it up every week. You don’t see much of Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker on a weekly basis once they get to that age.

[dude-1981]

Counterpoint- Dustin Rhodes is 50, and he was on the shorlist for Match of the Year back in May.

 

I would suggest that rather than make a counterpoint you've merely pointed out a statistical outlier.

[Historian]

So I hate to bring up an old fight but I think it's worth mentioning, The Cornellverse has a real problem with old wrestlers. I know there's a massive debate about whether or not time decline is real or not but I think it is and I think I can prove it pretty easily..

 

I think this proves the common knowledge of wrestling correct, Wrestlers tend to peek in their 30s except for a very small number of outliers who excel into their forties.

 

I feel like Minoru Suzuki and Shawn Michaels ar less examples of the average and more The exception that proves the rule.

 

I don't think TEW has a problem with old wrestlers at all. Your mainstream companies hang on to popular main eventers out of necessity. In The Climb, where I got to 2024, wrestler of the year was only won by someone 39 or older once -- when 41 year old El Leon won it (he did win it at 38 & 39 though).

 

People also forget the TEW match rating system *is not* the Meltzer star system. It takes a whole range of things into account, from worker performance to fan interest and heat, to storyline heat, etc.... so it doesn't directly correlate to Meltzer's rating (Adam has been on record saying this)

 

The wrestling business has *always* held on to stars longer than their prime because of their popularity and recognition with fans. Adam's already stated that 2020 will allow for more stars to be created and for companies to push more people to the top, so that part has already been addressed -- but Time Decline is very real. I had a 41 year old Rick Law who was in time decline and in the course of a year his Stamina went to a point where he couldn't wrestle for longer than ten minutes.

[Makhai]

I don't think TEW has a problem with old wrestlers at all. Your mainstream companies hang on to popular main eventers out of necessity. In The Climb, where I got to 2024, wrestler of the year was only won by someone 39 or older once -- when 41 year old El Leon won it (he did win it at 38 & 39 though).

 

People also forget the TEW match rating system *is not* the Meltzer star system. It takes a whole range of things into account, from worker performance to fan interest and heat, to storyline heat, etc.... so it doesn't directly correlate to Meltzer's rating (Adam has been on record saying this)

 

The wrestling business has *always* held on to stars longer than their prime because of their popularity and recognition with fans. Adam's already stated that 2020 will allow for more stars to be created and for companies to push more people to the top, so that part has already been addressed -- but Time Decline is very real. I had a 41 year old Rick Law who was in time decline and in the course of a year his Stamina went to a point where he couldn't wrestle for longer than ten minutes.

 

It's made real-world games basically unplayable. The way this should work should default to physical peak 35, decline age 45, retirement age 50. Obviously random stuff like drugs and injuries, etc should skew this down a bit but that's where we are. A few guys should wrestle into their 60s(Flair, Hogan, etc) in diminished roles, and some guys shouldn't even debut until their in their 30s.

[HiPlus]

<p>I think TEW handles things perfectly as it is now. Up until 40 years old is roughly where the turn or decline happens for workers with most dropping into a drastic decline after that. I mean look at guys like Undertaker/Goldberg/Matt Hardy as someone said. These guys can have great spectacles but in terms of matches they are awful. Then you have guys like Shawn Michaels, Christopher Daniels, Chris Jericho. I think with the new attributes system there could be an attribute for over 40 year olds that aren't hindered by time decline as harshly. </p><p> </p><p>

But I think 60 is far too old for them to be giving MoTY candidates. Sure some workers will work until then but none are more than nostalgia acts.</p>

[Matt_Black]

I think the post that resurrected this argument focused too much on "great". Yeah, while most 40+ guys are going to struggle to be great, quite a few are going to be "good", or at least "good enough".

[ChairToFace]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="HiPlus" data-cite="HiPlus" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46550" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think TEW handles things perfectly as it is now. Up until 40 years old is roughly where the turn or decline happens for workers with most dropping into a drastic decline after that. I mean look at guys like Undertaker/Goldberg/Matt Hardy as someone said. These guys can have great spectacles but in terms of matches they are awful. Then you have guys like Shawn Michaels, Christopher Daniels, Chris Jericho. I think with the new attributes system there could be an attribute for over 40 year olds that aren't hindered by time decline as harshly. <p> </p><p> But I think 60 is far too old for them to be giving MoTY candidates. Sure some workers will work until then but none are more than nostalgia acts.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think that it already depends on their destiny roll as to what age they decline at. Some guys begin the decline around their late 30s. Others begin around 40. Some guys like Steve DeColt haven't declined yet, and a guy like Steve Flash either hasn't begun his decline, or is on a very slow decline.</p>

[Historian]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Steven James" data-cite="Steven James" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46550" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think that it already depends on their destiny roll as to what age they decline at. Some guys begin the decline around their late 30s. Others begin around 40. Some guys like Steve DeColt haven't declined yet, and a guy like Steve Flash either hasn't begun his decline, or is on a very slow decline.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Flash is almost always in Decline at the start of the game, but his bio specifically says he's kept himself in great shape and injury free and primarily works in NYCW which is incredibly less physically taxing then say a CZCW. So product matters too.</p>

[ShaunGBD]

<p>Let's be honest. Their gonna be a c-verse aew. Newer company, tv deal, ppv deal, smaller roster where the player can make the company their own. O yeah it writes itself.</p><p> </p><p>

Also TCW will be out of business</p><p> </p><p>

SWF will fall and be crippled after the FBI takes down the company.</p>

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="HiPlus" data-cite="HiPlus" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46550" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think TEW handles things perfectly as it is now. Up until 40 years old is roughly where the turn or decline happens for workers with most dropping into a drastic decline after that. I mean look at guys like Undertaker/Goldberg/Matt Hardy as someone said. These guys can have great spectacles but in terms of matches they are awful. Then you have guys like Shawn Michaels, Christopher Daniels, Chris Jericho. I think with the new attributes system there could be an attribute for over 40 year olds that aren't hindered by time decline as harshly. <p> </p><p> But I think 60 is far too old for them to be giving MoTY candidates. Sure some workers will work until then but none are more than nostalgia acts.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I've gone over this a zillion times at this point, but everybody who's great right now is between 40-50 for the most part. And historically it's been a bit lower but that mostly due to the cocktail of Steriods, Cocaine, and Pain Killers.(Blow up your heart, atrify it, then make it beat faster... nothing could go wrong here.) </p><p> </p><p> But yeah, only Okada is under 30 and he's a freak anomaly. Cody is 34, Bucks are mid-30s, Braun Rollins and Reigns are 30 something. WWE guys don't even get into the Performance Center these days unless they're over 30. Wrestling isn't like normal sports. You're best years are between 35-45. Jericho is 2 years from 50. And besides a limiting back issue and few extra lbs, same dude.</p><p> </p><p> This is a new era, guys are in way better shape, they eat way better, they train way smarter, they last way longer. Really only massive injures prevent this.</p><p> </p><p> Since there's always many sides on this, the best solution is probably to let us screw around with time decline settings ourselves.</p>

[Peppermint Rage]

This may have been pitched already, but I'd love to see 4C rise and become a strong #2 in canada, surpassing an either dead or dying CGC, playing themselves up as the true alternative to the two different versions of old school that have ran the country for years, I could see them with a small t.v. deal and getting at NOTBPW's heels, with a younger hungrier roster (alongside some of NOTBPW better high fliers who defected to or returned to 4C after being ignored by the old school NOTBPW) and a vengeful Edd Stone. the basic premise of the war being 4C with a younger roster with their cult heavy Pop>Perf product and young roster, and NOTBPW's aging but better and more over roster. also 4C's. Also I could see 4C being the first serious in tone promotion to go fully integrated with their roster.

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ShaunGBD" data-cite="ShaunGBD" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46550" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Let's be honest. Their gonna be a c-verse aew. Newer company, tv deal, ppv deal, smaller roster where the player can make the company their own. O yeah it writes itself.<p> </p><p> Also TCW will be out of business</p><p> </p><p> SWF will fall and be crippled after the FBI takes down the company.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The US is overloaded, and it has 2 huge companies that should cannibalize a lot of the smaller feds. I don't see TCW folding, I think it's got too many committed die hard fans on the boards. Bingo hall fed, most likely. </p><p> </p><p> Companies I'd fold are: PSW, FCW(Power goes to USPW), and I'd fold RIPW, as a cost cutting measure.</p>

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jameschaos" data-cite="jameschaos" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46550" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This may have been pitched already, but I'd love to see 4C rise and become a strong #2 in canada, surpassing an either dead or dying CGC, playing themselves up as the true alternative to the two different versions of old school that have ran the country for years, I could see them with a small t.v. deal and getting at NOTBPW's heels, with a younger hungrier roster (alongside some of NOTBPW better high fliers who defected to or returned to 4C after being ignored by the old school NOTBPW) and a vengeful Edd Stone. the basic premise of the war being 4C with a younger roster with their cult heavy Pop>Perf product and young roster, and NOTBPW's aging but better and more over roster. also 4C's. Also I could see 4C being the first serious in tone promotion to go fully integrated with their roster.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This seems like where it's going. But CGC is HUGELY popular on the boards. My prediction is that CGC goes under, and the DeColts sign with NOTBPW, which spurs fans to 4C and you get New School vs. Old School as we head into the 2020s.</p>

[BoredomTM]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Makhai" data-cite="Makhai" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46550" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The US is overloaded, and it has 2 huge companies that should cannibalize a lot of the smaller feds. I don't see TCW folding, I think it's got too many committed die hard fans on the boards. Bingo hall fed, most likely. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'd honestly consider not buying a new entry if TCW wasn't in the game. This is probably how DAVE fans felt from 2007 to 2008. They're unique, a product that honestly had no real world similars until AEW came around, being the workrate company while still having focus on the entertainment aspect of pro wrestling. Plus, they have just been bought out in 2015, and I honestly can't see their new management being so bad as to put them out of business in 4 years. Maybe cult while having lost Rocky Golden and Wolf Hawkins, but readily replacing them with hungry indie guys...or a poached Bumfhole, unhapy with their lack of push for so many years. </p><p> </p><p> If any promotion is set for a major decline, it's SWF. By 2020, Jack Bruce will either be retired or part timing, and they have no guy readily able to replace him at the helm. And there's also a major issue here: As Richard Eisen looks towards his fallow years, he created a power struggle between Jerry and Eric when he made Jerry the booker. An unproven Jerry could've easily created a bad product for SWF moving forward, losing ratings even further. Another problem SWF have is their aging upper card: their continued refusal to push their younger guys like the Bumfholes, Paul Huntingdon, Robbie Retro could very well lead to those leaving for USPW or TCW, becoming a major star over there.</p>

[Chikbot]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BoredomTM" data-cite="BoredomTM" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46550" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'd honestly consider not buying a new entry if TCW wasn't in the game. This is probably how DAVE fans felt from 2007 to 2008. They're unique, a product that honestly had no real world similars until AEW came around, being the workrate company while still having focus on the entertainment aspect of pro wrestling. Plus, they have just been bought out in 2015, and I honestly can't see their new management being so bad as to put them out of business in 4 years. Maybe cult while having lost Rocky Golden and Wolf Hawkins, but readily replacing them with hungry indie guys...or a poached Bumfhole, unhapy with their lack of push for so many years. <p> </p><p> If any promotion is set for a major decline, it's SWF. By 2020, Jack Bruce will either be retired or part timing, and they have no guy readily able to replace him at the helm. And there's also a major issue here: As Richard Eisen looks towards his fallow years, he created a power struggle between Jerry and Eric when he made Jerry the booker. An unproven Jerry could've easily created a bad product for SWF moving forward, losing ratings even further. Another problem SWF have is their aging upper card: their continued refusal to push their younger guys like the Bumfholes, Paul Huntingdon, Robbie Retro could very well lead to those leaving for USPW or TCW, becoming a major star over there.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah, honestly, TCW going would just make me sad considering it was technically the successor to HGC, basically the TNA to its WCW. It'd be a sad loss if it did happen. But then again, change is always inevitable, like with what happened to DAVE(which I wish was still around myself in some form, PSW doesn't cut it)</p>

[Chikbot]

<p>I apologize for the doubleposting however I wanted to put some specific predictions/things I hope for out</p><p> </p><p>

-I always saw Ash Campbell as a Jon Moxley-esque figure despite being Nemesis' son. I think he's going to be in SWF due to his heritage</p><p> </p><p>

-Sorry to steal from the CV2019 mod that came out recently, but a Lucha Underground style company could definitely fun for a new sort of playstyle, maybe SOTBPW ends up getting a famous director on board through Champagne Lover and it goes from there? or it ends up being its own sort of entity</p><p> </p><p>

-The Bumfholes end up not getting renewed contracts and end up in Japan</p><p> </p><p>

-Brandon James retires and becomes a color commentator in SWF</p><p> </p><p>

-Eddie and Doug Peak reunite in USPW after taking big money to team together again</p><p> </p><p>

-An indie similar in vibe to Game Changer Wrestling ends up forming</p><p> </p><p>

-Lucas Danger ends up getting a Joey Janela style cult following which ends up with him getting signed to TCW</p>

[Juce]

<p>I would like to see CGC bought by USPW and become their development company.</p><p> </p><p>

TCW would be great rebuilt in the image of a real world AEW. Maybe some rebranding as Total Wrestling (I love that logo). They are a strong performance based product and #2 in America while working with some small global companies.</p><p> </p><p>

SWF I would like to see be taken down by the FBI and drop to a lowly cult company under new ownership. Maybe a youth movement with some smaller stars than normal. The history around this promotion I don't want to see lost honestly so trying to rebuild the company around some new philosophies might be a lot of fun.</p><p> </p><p>

Swoop McCarthy coming to America for SWF or TCW would be preferred by me.</p>

[Editor6]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ShaunGBD" data-cite="ShaunGBD" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46550" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Let's be honest. Their gonna be a c-verse aew. Newer company, tv deal, ppv deal, smaller roster where the player can make the company their own. O yeah it writes itself.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Makhai" data-cite="Makhai" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46550" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The US is overloaded, and it has 2 huge companies that should cannibalize a lot of the smaller feds. I don't see TCW folding, I think it's got too many committed die hard fans on the boards. Bingo hall fed, most likely. <p> </p><p> Companies I'd fold are: PSW, FCW(Power goes to USPW), and I'd fold RIPW, as a cost cutting measure.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If this happens, it won't be in the U.S. And in keeping with the C-verse being full of things that are <em>like</em> this real-world thing, but not <em>exactly</em> like the real-world thing... I think the UK makes the most sense. The developing pool of talent and 21CW's expansion into Europe means some folks are gonna get left behind. Just find the money man, get a couple of defections, and there's your UK-based AEW type.</p>