Moeru Toukon '05: GSH Released

[Lukiep8]

Moeru Toukon '05: German Suplex Hold This is the third installment of Moeru Toukon '05, for Total Extreme Warfare 2005. I have updated overness rankings, deleted some promotions, updated everything, added new wrestlers, etc. etc. Any problems, opinions, or requests, please don't hesitate to ask. [url=http://users.tpg.com.au/salta8/Moeru+Toukon.zip]German Suplex Hold[/url] Right-click and save as. > I have never released these stats here on GDS before, but given that they will be used in conjunction with TCP, I thought I should. These stats are solely for the Japanese Puroresu scene, and do not feature promotions from other countries. Given the way I do my stats independantly, I do not advise using them with other stats updates (except TCP). Thanks.

[TCP1]

That is awesome work. With that, the final piece of the puzzle, the BETA for my mod should be out by the end of this weekend coming.

[That Crazy Guy]

Great Lukie, thanks a lot.

[forlan]

Why do people like Lyger have full stats over their whole body when they are clearly banged up

[Lukiep8]

[quote]Why do people like Lyger have full stats over their whole body when they are clearly banged up[/quote] Unless they have known serious ailments, I thought there wasn't much point. It is rare for Liger to miss time for 'nagging' injuries of any kind, so if I put low stats for whatever reason, then he would be missing time he usually doesn't. The only serious injury he has had (except his brain tumour in 96, which he is fully recovered from) was a really bad ankle break in 89/90. It happened so long ago, and he has changed his style as soon as he returned all those years ago, it doesn't effect him anymore.

[forlan]

But As far as when i've been playing it injuries hardly ever occur in the game and people don't take time off for poor physical

[Lukiep8]

[quote]But As far as when i've been playing it injuries hardly ever occur in the game and people don't take time off for poor physical[/quote] Welcome to the world of Japanese wrestling. Look at guys like Kobashi and Mutoh. They literally have no knees. They are buggered, and with Kobashi, he should have retired by now because of it. Most guys work through their injuries, unless it will really hamper their wrestling.

[forlan]

Yeah but that doesn't say why physicals arent done, i was meaning in the game poor physical doesnt seem to effect much from my experince

[Lukiep8]

Oh ok. Now I get ya. Take it that the excuse above covers my laziness :P

[forlan]

Will do ;)

[S-kay]

Good job LukieP. Nice mod. However, as per your request, here's a list of errors and suggestions. As you may notice, most of the things are Dragon Gate/Toryumon related since that's where most of my interest lies. [U]Name Errors[/U] Takamichi Iwasa should be called Taku Iwasa in Dragon Gate Muscle Outlaws should be called Muscle Outlawz Naoki Tanisaki should be Naoki Tanizaki? (Saw this spelling on one of the latest Infinitys. I think it was spelt Tanisaki before but has now become Tanizaki to reflect his Muscle Outlawz affiliation). Touro Owashi should be Touru Owashi Pro wrestling El Dorado should be El Dorado or El Dorado: Next Door Project. [U]Contracts issues[/U] Taiji Ishimori should have a written or Exclusive PPA with NOAH. Takuya Sugawara works at M-pro as well I think Don't believe Kensuke Sasaki/Kenskee works for Dragon Gate anymore due to the end of Florida gimmick. Also would mean that Katsuhiko Nakajima would not be at DG. Don't think Dragon Gate has A PPV Carrier at the moment. They just have the infinity show on GAORA. Perhaps not an error for you to fix but instead, for TCP. Matt Sydal, Jimmy Rave, Austin Aries, Roderick Strong, AZ(Azrieal), Chris Bosh and B-Boy will be working for Dragon Gate. Put them as PPA. [U]Style Issues[/U] Zero One MAX uses Jr. Heavyweights, thus perhaps not Traditional? Hard to say what style would fit them... Pure perhaps? El Dorado - Lucha Traditional not Traditional Dragon Gate aren't really Lucha Traditional. They have far too many promos for that. However, due to their recent use of 3 way and Ladder Matches, also their rock atmosphere (described by some people) perhaps their style should be cutting edge? Otherwise Lucha Entertainment. Marufuji - Spot Monkey (I understand that there's a lot of Marufuji hate (and I'm generally a bit ambivalent towards him) but I don't think he's a spot monkey [U]Push suggestions[/U] Susumu Yokosuka should be a main eventer due to him being Dragon Gate Open the Dream Gate Champion and various wins over DG main eventers. [U]Overness suggestions[/U] Dragon Gate should be perhaps more over in Honshu. They have done quite well in competition with NOAH and New Japan when running shows on concurrent days in the area. Certainly should be more over in Honshu than in Shikoku. CIMA should have higher overness in Dragon Gate. He is still pretty much the main draw. I suggest a low B- perhaps going with how the overness system currently is. Magnitude Kishiwada should have higher overness in the Shikoku region due to his big popularity in Osaka. Susumu Yokosuka should have higher overness to match his changed Main Event status. Overness perhaps too low for top workers in the smaller promotions (i.e. Otani only B-? CIMA only c? Jinsei Shinzaki C-? Great Sasuke C+?). [U]Relationship problems[/U] CIMA Shingo Takagi relationship wrong way around. CIMA is the mentor of takagi Same with BxB Hulk and Magnum Tokyo Same with Ultimo Dragon and Tsubasa May be the same with all other Protege/Mentor relationships Protege not Loyalty between Katsuhiko Nakajima and Kensuke Sasaki? Other instances of Loyalty instead of Protege/Mentor. Super Delfin and Super Dolphin. Loyalty is same both ways unlike protege/mentor. [U]Missing Relationships[/U] Hiromi and Genki Horiguchi are blood relatives Susumu Yokosuka & K-ness should be Best Friends Ryo Saito loyalty/protege to Magnum Tokyo? Naoki Tanisaki loyalty/protege to Genki Horiguchi? Perhaps have a Protege/Mentor relationship between Ultimo Dragon and his main aces? (aka CIMA, Magnum Tokyo, Milano Collection AT, Taiji Ishimori and perhaps Hiromi Horiguchi) Protege relationship between Jun Ogawauchi and CIMA Strong Dislike between Milano Collection AT and Magnum Tokyo Dislike between Magnum Tokyo and Takuya Sugawara Strong Friendship between KENTA and Naomichi Marufuji Takuya Sugawara friendship with Shogo Takagi, Brother Yashi and Shuji Kondo? Strong friendship between Los Salseros (Mango Fukuda, Pineapple Hanai, Takeshi Minaminno) [U]Missing?[/U] No Hustle? Yu Yamagata is not at K-Dojo Hisamaru Taijima is missing and should be in Toryumon Japan [U]Gimmick Problems[/U] Akira Tozawa and Taku Iwasa should probably not be in a Geek Gimmick. A new gimmick will probably have to be made for them to describe this [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakigake!!_Otokojuku[/url] which is what their gimmick is based on. Otherwise, maybe degenerate? Naruki Doi is in a Wild Man Gimmick. However, he does not have the stats to perform in it. Perhaps he should have co-cky Youth instead? (great censorship there) [U]Statistical errors[/U] Kenta Kobashi is currently at A psychology. However, I feel he should have A* perhaps? Mototsugu Shimizu has F psychology and although he may not be the greatest worker, I do not think he is this bad. [U]Other errors[/U] Milano Collection AT should be active not semi active The TenKoji tagteam should be made up of Tenzan and Satoshi Kojima not Koji Kanemoto Mutoh perhaps should have politician as his personality Kaz Hayashi should have passable English. I think one of the NOAH shows is on G+ Blood Generation currently does not have Shingo Takagi in their stable anymore but does have Jack Evans. Naoki Tanizaki should be removed from Do Fixer Dragon Gate gets quickly kicked off GAORA since it is a big TV company and Dragon Gate overness isn't high enough. I may find more in other promotions but this was just a quick overview.

[S-kay]

Also looked and found that some people deserve higher psychology especially when compared to others. Hiroshi Tanahashi and Shinsuke Nakamura only have a C in psychology whilst part time comedy wrestler Stalker Ichikawa has C+. I also feel that Yutaka Yoshie has been treated harshly with low stats in a few areas such as Mic skills and psychology

[Lukiep8]

[quote]Naoki Tanisaki should be Naoki Tanizaki? (Saw this spelling on one of the latest Infinitys. I think it was spelt Tanisaki before but has now become Tanizaki to reflect his Muscle Outlawz affiliation).[/quote] Thats how it has always been spelt on Infinity, so I just take it as a misspelling, like that do with Super Siesar... [quote]Touro Owashi should be Touru Owashi[/quote] It can go either way. I use Touro, because well, thats how I always used it. [quote]Pro wrestling El Dorado should be El Dorado or El Dorado: Next Door Project.[/quote] The full name of the promotion is: Pro-Wrestling El Dorado: Next Door Project I think that the next door project monicker isn't so important, so I went with Pro-Wrestling El Dorado. It's much like Dragon Gate, the full name of the promotion is Dragon Gate Pro-Wrestling, but in the idea of it, it's no important. Contracts issues [quote]Takuya Sugawara works at M-pro as well I think[/quote] He worked once, and hasen't worked since. [quote]Don't believe Kensuke Sasaki/Kenskee works for Dragon Gate anymore due to the end of Florida gimmick. Also would mean that Katsuhiko Nakajima would not be at DG.[/quote] Yeah, this was a hard one. I don't know if they will be used in the future for the Revolution storyline or not. So I might pull them out. [quote]Don't think Dragon Gate has A PPV Carrier at the moment. They just have the infinity show on GAORA.[/quote] Once again, it's hard to say. They recently dropped the idea of having monthly PPV's, but that wouldn't stop their other PPV's. World is coming up in July. Style Issues [quote]Zero One MAX uses Jr. Heavyweights, thus perhaps not Traditional? Hard to say what style would fit them... Pure perhaps?[/quote] Zero One MAX fits nowhere in style (that is why I made up a new list in the suggestions thread.) It wouldn't fit in pure, because the way the in-ring style comes across, and the way they shows are done up. Traditional is the best fit. [quote]El Dorado - Lucha Traditional not Traditional[/quote] The way El Dorado is run, is hard to pick right now. Lucha means it will be running excessive 6 man tags, when really, the only 6 man they run is the main. I think it will be heading to a more traditional puro way. Just have to wait and see, and change it accordingly. [quote]Dragon Gate aren't really Lucha Traditional. They have far too many promos for that. However, due to their recent use of 3 way and Ladder Matches, also their rock atmosphere (described by some people) perhaps their style should be cutting edge? Otherwise Lucha Entertainment.[/quote] I tried Cutting Edge, and it didn't fit very well, same with Lucha Entertainment. Lucha Traditional seems to fit the promotion, when looking at the way shows are down out. The Ladder matches and 3 ways are pretty much only being used for their cross-promotional crap they have going in the next few months. And they aren't important matches anyway. [quote]Marufuji - Spot Monkey (I understand that there's a lot of Marufuji hate (and I'm generally a bit ambivalent towards him) but I don't think he's a spot monkey[/quote] Def. a spot monkey. And a bad one at that. I think I have been generous to Maru. [quote]Magnitude Kishiwada should have higher overness in the Shikoku region due to his big popularity in Osaka.[/quote] I wouldn't say much higher. Kishiwada was a total failure as champion. My friend (Japanese friend), who enjoyed watching Kishiwada in Dragon Gate, said that apart from his agility, no one liked him much. [quote]Overness perhaps too low for top workers in the smaller promotions (i.e. Otani only B-? CIMA only c? Jinsei Shinzaki C-? Great Sasuke C+?).[/quote] I am just trying to keep it reasonable. Having one run-a-way star could mean they end up leaving the promotions, or basically BEING the promotion. I would put Magu up to the same, or even more overness right now, given his Tenryu Revolution storyline, is gaining him strong publicity outside of Dragon Gate. Relationship problems Seems I didn't understand these properly :S Missing Relationships Hiromi and Genki Horiguchi are blood relatives Susumu Yokosuka & K-ness should be Best Friends Ryo Saito loyalty/protege to Magnum Tokyo? Naoki Tanisaki loyalty/protege to Genki Horiguchi? [quote]Perhaps have a Protege/Mentor relationship between Ultimo Dragon and his main aces? (aka CIMA, Magnum Tokyo, Milano Collection AT, Taiji Ishimori and perhaps Hiromi Horiguchi)[/quote] The problem with these, is everyone splitting from Ultimo. There must be some reasons behind it. The only one I could is Milano/Ultimo at the moment. [quote]Strong Dislike between Milano Collection AT and Magnum Tokyo[/quote] I don't know why there would be a strong dislike here? Milano left to go to America, thats about it. Missing? [quote]No Hustle?[/quote] HUSTLE is not Pro-Wrestling, and is not seen as Pro-Wrestling in Japan. It is Fighting Opera, and has no place within my game, and never will. It's the same with MUSCLE. I wanted to put MUSCLE in, but once again, it's a parody of HUSTLE, and has no place within my game. Gimmick Problems [quote]Akira Tozawa and Taku Iwasa should probably not be in a Geek Gimmick. A new gimmick will probably have to be made for them to describe this [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakigake!!_Otokojuku[/url] which is what their gimmick is based on. Otherwise, maybe degenerate?[/quote] I generally don't like making new gimmicks, as I find it hard to balance them out. I went for geek, as thus far, it is basically where the gimmick lies. Statistical errors [quote]Kenta Kobashi is currently at A psychology. However, I feel he should have A* perhaps?[/quote] Hmmm... A* is pretty damn high. I base it on other strong workers, and I feel I may have overrated Kobashi. I think certain parts of his matches and the way he thinks are detrimental, so I wouldn't place him so high in Psychology. Other errors [quote]Milano Collection AT should be active not semi active[/quote] He bases himself out of America, and works spot shows in Japan. [quote]Blood Generation currently does not have Shingo Takagi in their stable anymore but does have Jack Evans.[/quote] Shingo has left for America. Evans has joined Blood. It's basically a trade with ROH. Dragon Gate gets Evans, they get Shingo for a bit. What a bloody joke. Read my Myspace if you want to know how I feel about Dragon Gate right now... Most other things are me either missing them, or just minor mistakes. Thanks for going through though. I will aim to fix them.

[TCP1]

[QUOTE=Lukiep8]Thats how it has always been spelt on Infinity, so I just take it as a misspelling, like that do with Super Siesar... It can go either way. I use Touro, because well, thats how I always used it. The full name of the promotion is: Pro-Wrestling El Dorado: Next Door Project I think that the next door project monicker isn't so important, so I went with Pro-Wrestling El Dorado. It's much like Dragon Gate, the full name of the promotion is Dragon Gate Pro-Wrestling, but in the idea of it, it's no important. Contracts issues He worked once, and hasen't worked since. Yeah, this was a hard one. I don't know if they will be used in the future for the Revolution storyline or not. So I might pull them out. Once again, it's hard to say. They recently dropped the idea of having monthly PPV's, but that wouldn't stop their other PPV's. World is coming up in July. Style Issues Zero One MAX fits nowhere in style (that is why I made up a new list in the suggestions thread.) It wouldn't fit in pure, because the way the in-ring style comes across, and the way they shows are done up. Traditional is the best fit. The way El Dorado is run, is hard to pick right now. Lucha means it will be running excessive 6 man tags, when really, the only 6 man they run is the main. I think it will be heading to a more traditional puro way. Just have to wait and see, and change it accordingly. I tried Cutting Edge, and it didn't fit very well, same with Lucha Entertainment. Lucha Traditional seems to fit the promotion, when looking at the way shows are down out. The Ladder matches and 3 ways are pretty much only being used for their cross-promotional crap they have going in the next few months. And they aren't important matches anyway. Def. a spot monkey. And a bad one at that. I think I have been generous to Maru. I wouldn't say much higher. Kishiwada was a total failure as champion. My friend (Japanese friend), who enjoyed watching Kishiwada in Dragon Gate, said that apart from his agility, no one liked him much. I am just trying to keep it reasonable. Having one run-a-way star could mean they end up leaving the promotions, or basically BEING the promotion. I would put Magu up to the same, or even more overness right now, given his Tenryu Revolution storyline, is gaining him strong publicity outside of Dragon Gate. Relationship problems Seems I didn't understand these properly :S Missing Relationships Hiromi and Genki Horiguchi are blood relatives Susumu Yokosuka & K-ness should be Best Friends Ryo Saito loyalty/protege to Magnum Tokyo? Naoki Tanisaki loyalty/protege to Genki Horiguchi? The problem with these, is everyone splitting from Ultimo. There must be some reasons behind it. The only one I could is Milano/Ultimo at the moment. I don't know why there would be a strong dislike here? Milano left to go to America, thats about it. Missing? HUSTLE is not Pro-Wrestling, and is not seen as Pro-Wrestling in Japan. It is Fighting Opera, and has no place within my game, and never will. It's the same with MUSCLE. I wanted to put MUSCLE in, but once again, it's a parody of HUSTLE, and has no place within my game. Gimmick Problems I generally don't like making new gimmicks, as I find it hard to balance them out. I went for geek, as thus far, it is basically where the gimmick lies. Statistical errors Hmmm... A* is pretty damn high. I base it on other strong workers, and I feel I may have overrated Kobashi. I think certain parts of his matches and the way he thinks are detrimental, so I wouldn't place him so high in Psychology. Other errors He bases himself out of America, and works spot shows in Japan. Shingo has left for America. Evans has joined Blood. It's basically a trade with ROH. Dragon Gate gets Evans, they get Shingo for a bit. What a bloody joke. Read my Myspace if you want to know how I feel about Dragon Gate right now... Most other things are me either missing them, or just minor mistakes. Thanks for going through though. I will aim to fix them.[/QUOTE] It occurs to me that I know bugger all about Puro. Still I'm still liking the stats on this mod as they are strong, but not overly blown-up. Good work.

[S-kay]

[QUOTE=Lukiep8] Style Issues Zero One MAX fits nowhere in style (that is why I made up a new list in the suggestions thread.) It wouldn't fit in pure, because the way the in-ring style comes across, and the way they shows are done up. Traditional is the best fit. The way El Dorado is run, is hard to pick right now. Lucha means it will be running excessive 6 man tags, when really, the only 6 man they run is the main. I think it will be heading to a more traditional puro way. Just have to wait and see, and change it accordingly. [/QUOTE] The problem with the traditional style is that it means high flyers do not do very well in those promotions, as stated in the game. This means that Zero One matches with Jr. Heavyweights will probably have low ratings since it doesn't fit with their style. The same with El Dorado, where it is much more of a problem due to the promotion being made up of high flyers. [QUOTE=Lukiep8] Relationship problems Seems I didn't understand these properly :S [/QUOTE] Basically, the mentor/protege relationships are the wrong way around. i.e. you have the relationships as: CIMA is the protege of Shingo Takagi Shingo Takagi is the mentor of CIMA. This is the wrong way around. It should be: Shingo Takagi is the protege of CIMA CIMA is the mentor of Shingo Takagi. [QUOTE=Lukiep8] Strong Dislike between Milano Collection AT and Magnum Tokyo I don't know why there would be a strong dislike here? Milano left to go to America, thats about it. [/QUOTE] I don't think Milano just left to go to America. Milano seems to want nothing to do with Dragon Gate at all. For example, quiting Ring of Honor when they started their working relationship with Dragon Gate. I also read somewhere that Milano was at odds with Magu near the end of his run at Dragon Gate. Magnum Tokyo was going for his "Social Dance" theme for DG while Milano did not agree with this direction. This led to changes to his moveset and style urged on by Magu. For example, he does not use the original IR anymore (which was used in DG) and has gone more towards the Llave style mixed with his new US influences rather than focusing on the impact style he had near the end of his Dragon Gate run. He has also been using the AT locks more now which was being phased out in DG. However, in hindsight, I do not have a source for the latter statement concerning the specific disagreement between Milano and Magnum Tokyo. [QUOTE=Lukiep8] Missing? HUSTLE is not Pro-Wrestling, and is not seen as Pro-Wrestling in Japan. It is Fighting Opera, and has no place within my game, and never will. It's the same with MUSCLE. I wanted to put MUSCLE in, but once again, it's a parody of HUSTLE, and has no place within my game. [/QUOTE] Ok, I understand that. However, I do feel it may deserve a place in TCPs mod due to it's sports entertainment style and faint similarities to WWE. [QUOTE=Lukiep8] Other errors Milano Collection AT should be active not semi active He bases himself out of America, and works spot shows in Japan. [/QUOTE] Yes, this is also true. Again, TCP needs to change this when implementing this into his mod.

[TCP1]

[QUOTE=S-kay] Ok, I understand that. However, I do feel it may deserve a place in TCPs mod due to it's sports entertainment style and faint similarities to WWE. Yes, this is also true. Again, TCP needs to change this when implementing this into his mod.[/QUOTE] Hustle won't be in my mod, but Milano is active.

[S-kay]

If you want, I can give you the information to put Hustle in your mod, TCP.

[TCP1]

[QUOTE=S-kay]If you want, I can give you the information to put Hustle in your mod, TCP.[/QUOTE] I honestly don't think I have time I'm afraid, plus as a promotion it holds little to no interest for me. If there are lots of people who want it, I'll add it, otherwise it gets bumped.

[Lukiep8]

I can put it in, but I still choose not to, and stand by my reasoning, that this game is a Pro-Wrestling game, and HUSTLE is not a Pro-Wrestling company. It would be very unrealistic, and one of the biggest reasons I see, is that HUSTLE runs at a MAJOR loss to DSE. How can you put in a proper promotion, that loses thousands and thousands of dollars a month, but is covered over by what DSE make in other ventures?

[flashmagic]

[QUOTE=Lukiep8] It would be very unrealistic, and one of the biggest reasons I see, is that HUSTLE runs at a MAJOR loss to DSE. How can you put in a proper promotion, that loses thousands and thousands of dollars a month, but is covered over by what DSE make in other ventures?[/QUOTE] Kind of like New Japan & Yukes ;)