Death of the Territories Released

[D. Boons Ghost]

Does anyone have an opinion on whether or not I should keep the promotion pacts as they are? While the web of pacts worked well in TEW: DOTT, I'm not so sure about WreSpi. On one hand, it puts the reigns on the AI hiring to conform to the 'gentlemen's agreements' back then. On the other hand, it limits who the player can contact for a job. On a lark, I started a game as Kerry Von Erich and found that I could not contact any of the bigger U.S. promotions, save the AWA, due to non-aggression pacts with World Class (my home promotion). Should I perhaps have all of the NWA promotions under working agreements and not worry about AI hirings? Detailing the era doesn't really matter if someone finds it a drag that they can not apply to work for whomever without quitting their initial gig. Thanks for any input.

[TEWFan]

I say eliminate them. I dont like having those type of restrictions. I played some as Arn Anderson and wanted to go to Mid Atlantic and see if I could for a tag team with Flair, but I could not do to the agreements. That really pissed me off and wanted me to switch characters.

[potty]

I just want to give my thanks to you D.Boon for putting in all the time for this fantastic addition to a fantastic game. It kept me playing the original WreSpi long after I normally bore of games, & I'm looking forward to the same experience from the WreSpi 2 edition. Thanks again!

[Moderndaywarrior]

[QUOTE=D. Boon's Ghost]Should I perhaps have all of the NWA promotions under working agreements and not worry about AI hirings? Detailing the era doesn't really matter if someone finds it a drag that they can not apply to work for whomever without quitting their initial gig. [/QUOTE] I would think that all the promotions under the NWA umbrella would have working agreements with each other,and non agression pacts with the non-NWA promotions.Remember that the NWA umbrella also includes AJPW. I believe the AWA should have a working areement with CWA and SWCW. SWCW had a working agreement with MSW.They also had working agreements with HCW and GCW,though I am not sure if those are in place in '83. CWA is also kind of a unique case as they had a working agreement with SWCW;I think they also had some kind of deal going with MSW where they would trade talent,but I am not 100% sure it was a true working agreement.Speaking of the CWA,should they be located in the South East or Mid South region?They're kind of right near the borderline of the two areas,but they did the the arena "The Mid-South Coliseum". PNW definitely had an arrangement of some sort going with Tomko's ASW.

[Vladamire Dracos]

PNW was also a long time member of the NWA under Don Coss, and I'm pretty sure they had some sort of working agreement with the AWA (just look at the talent that traveled between the two). Remember, most of the larger promotions looked at PNW as a testing ground of sorts, letting their younger talent get time in front of live cameras before they hit the bigs. Oh, I can't recall which month your data starts in, but I found a list of card results for PNW from Jan. to June in '83 and I would be happy to pass them on if you'd like. :)

[D. Boons Ghost]

Thanks guys, your insights are very helpful. Many of the promotional pacts mentioned are already in (Pacific Northwest working with AWA, WWF, Tomko's All Star, etc.), but I've tightened the entire NWA umbrella so that more promotions are working with each other. * Because so many names came from the area, PNW is now working with a bunch of promotions; Florida, MACW, GCW, WCCW, etc. * Mid Atlantic, Georgia, CStates, Florida, and to a lesser extent World Class are now entirely tied together with working relationships (which will help TEWFan's problem of Arn not being able to go to MACW). As the Moderndaywarrior mentioned - considering they all operated under the NWA banner, an 'NWA' worker should be able to travel to just about every NWA territory freely. * Southwest's pacts are tightened up. I went ahead and gave them working relationships with Mid South and GCW (they already had Houston, CWA, & AWA). I know that the relationship between Joe Blanchard & Georgia was very short lived, but I felt like it made sense. To go along with that, Boesch in Houston had already dumped his partnership with World Class & Southwest at this point - focusing entirely on their agreement with Watts' Mid South - but in the spirit of things, I felt they should be in place. Plus, Gino Hernandez needs a pipeline straight into wherever Boesch works. :) * The War Relationships: WWF is now at war with MACW, AWA, CState, & GCW. This goes with the existing; SWCW is at war with WCCW... AJPW & NJPW ... EMLL & UWA ... and Joint & All Star U.K. [QUOTE=Vlad]Oh, I can't recall which month your data starts in, but I found a list of card results for PNW from Jan. to June in '83 and I would be happy to pass them on if you'd like.[/QUOTE] Thanks, Vlad. Nice to see you, btw. You've always provided great info and support for this project; very much appreciated. I have been using Clawmaster's Results Archives from [URL="http://www.oldschool-wrestling.com/"]Old School-Wrestling.com[/URL]. I imagine it is pretty complete, but any results around May of '83 you'd wish to pass along would be very helpful. Again, thanks guys! I'll work on testing this stuff today. If it looks good, I'll release the update soon.

[D. Boons Ghost]

Speaking of - heh. Not sure if you've seen this, or even interested - but [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bN6ZYRrQSA"]You Tube[/URL] has a great Portland battle royale from 1977 up. It has some great names from back then: Moondog Mayne, Buddy Rose, Ed Wiskowski, and a young Gino Hernandez. Plus, on that page check out the link to the Buddy Rose & Mega Maharishi (Ed Wiskowski) interview! Holy cow... it's super.

[Bigdummie]

O.K. Mr. D.Boon, here is some names from the past ( Michigan )My personal favorite Leaping Larry Chane (sometimes spelled Shain) George "Crybaby" Cannon, Brute Bernard, the man of a 1,000 holds Lou Klein, Bull Curry, "Gentleman" Jim Hady, Ricky Cortez, The Sicilian Beast, Percy Pringle. I grew up with these guys alon with of course The Shiek, Bobo Brazil, and many others. Thanks again for all the enjoyment of D.O.T.T.

[Vladamire Dracos]

[QUOTE=D. Boon's Ghost]Speaking of - heh. Not sure if you've seen this, or even interested - but [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bN6ZYRrQSA"]You Tube[/URL] has a great Portland battle royale from 1977 up. It has some great names from back then: Moondog Mayne, Buddy Rose, Ed Wiskowski, and a young Gino Hernandez. Plus, on that page check out the link to the Buddy Rose & Mega Maharishi (Ed Wiskowski) interview! Holy cow... it's super.[/QUOTE] Yep, I know who posted them. ;) Those bits were actually taped by "Playboy" Buddy Rose on one of the first home tape recorders on the market, predating Beta/VHS. The system itself weighed in at over 50 pounds. When Beta/VHS became the popular formats, Rose eventually put the tapes in his garage. Check out the flying headbutt by Ed near the end of the clip. Then remember this is circa 1977 and realize how uncommon that must have been back then. :) You can also see some Caden mathews (a student of buddy Rose and Ed Wiskowski) stuff linked there.

[Moderndaywarrior]

Didn't Crybaby Cannon manage The Fabulous Kangaroos for a while?Also,are there any plans to add the Detroit promotion to D.O.T.T. in the future?I know in '83 they were still airing on TV as Big Time Wrestling,a few years later the program morphed into a goofy wrestling/country music combo show called Big Time Country. On a side note:In Ernie Roth's bio you forgot to note he also worked as J.Wellington Radcliff.

[D. Boons Ghost]

[QUOTE=Moderndaywarrior]Didn't Crybaby Cannon manage The Fabulous Kangaroos for a while?Also,are there any plans to add the Detroit promotion to D.O.T.T. in the future?I know in '83 they were still airing on TV as Big Time Wrestling,a few years later the program morphed into a goofy wrestling/country music combo show called Big Time Country. On a side note:In Ernie Roth's bio you forgot to note he also worked as J.Wellington Radcliff.[/QUOTE] Not sure on Cannon, but that sounds right. Was that the Don Kent & Bob Della Serra version of the 'Roos, or was that still Costello & Kent? I always get the Kangaroos timeline messed up. Regardless, Crybaby Cannon is in the game as a manager/backstage guy. Starts off working for the Montreal promotion. Detroit is in as a Future Promotion homage, actually. I was on the bubble as to whether or not to include them and Bruiser's WWA as active promotions, but felt that it didn't do much for gameplay purposes; too many small promotions in a game that allows Regional promotions to hire rookies equals excess clutter. I decided to go with a Toronto mish-mash, instead - heh. I moved the Sheik and some workers at the end of the Detroit promotion to Maple Leaf. Living in Northeast Ohio, I could sometimes get the Sheik's promotion in - but it was spotty. I sure wish I could have seen Big Time Country, though. I can picture the hilarity of the Sheik fireballing Tonya Tucker. :) And the Roth as Radclife bit didn't fit the bio space, heh. It was more important to me to mention just how darned great he was. ;)

[Moderndaywarrior]

[QUOTE=D. Boon's Ghost]Not sure on Cannon, but that sounds right. Was that the Don Kent & Bob Della Serra version of the 'Roos, or was that still Costello & Kent? I always get the Kangaroos timeline messed up. Regardless, Crybaby Cannon is in the game as a manager/backstage guy. Starts off working for the Montreal promotion. Detroit is in as a Future Promotion homage, actually. I was on the bubble as to whether or not to include them and Bruiser's WWA as active promotions, but felt that it didn't do much for gameplay purposes; too many small promotions in a game that allows Regional promotions to hire rookies equals excess clutter. I decided to go with a Toronto mish-mash, instead - heh. I moved the Sheik and some workers at the end of the Detroit promotion to Maple Leaf. Living in Northeast Ohio, I could sometimes get the Sheik's promotion in - but it was spotty. I sure wish I could have seen Big Time Country, though. I can picture the hilarity of the Sheik fireballing Tonya Tucker. :) And the Roth as Radclife bit didn't fit the bio space, heh. It was more important to me to mention just how darned great he was. ;)[/QUOTE] Heh,Big Time Country was pretty much The Shiek's stab at the Rock n. Wrestling/MTV thing,only with Country Music and Detroit wrestling....Sabu did some of his first matches on that program. Oh,It was Costello and Kent....I was positive I remembered seeing Cannon managing the 'Roos on old footage,though I admit I did have to go look up which version it was. That does remind me though,back in their heyday,The Fabulous Kangaroos had a poster with a bunch of wrestling holds listed on it,the middle part said "Know Your Holds" or something like that,it is now a sought after collector's item. I remember seeing the occasional bit of Big Time Wrestling growing up...since back then wrestling used to draw such high TV numbers,the local public access type channel used to buy wrestling programs from various places around the country and show them at oddball times....one of the best memories of my childhood is tracking down the obscure times they put them on,sneaking down to the TV room if I had to so I could watch...since we live right by Agricultural Hall (When i go there my friend and I still stand in the spot where Piper beaned Snuka with a coconut),we only had WWF programming....the styles of Detroit,PNW,WWC,etc. were so radically different it was like a whole new exciting and unexplored world for me. Remember back when TBS used to show 10 hours of wrestling from all the major promotions every Saturday Night? Man,do I miss that....

[D. Boons Ghost]

Thats what happens when you live in a small market, heh. From the mid 70s until about '82, Cleveland had basically nothing as far as wrestling programming. Once the Johnny Powers-led promotion shut down and Sheik stopped coming into Ohio, we were considered a vast wasteland. :) Not even WWF programming could stick here, I guess - as no local networks would broadcast it. As Ole Anderson mentioned in one of his interviews, everyone just assumed that Farhat had burnt this territory to the ground. For a long time, my friends and I were fans through the Weston mags of the day exclusively. It wasn't until cable started taking hold in '82-ish that we got in Georgia Championship on TBS. That was the one and only promotion that bothered to promote shows up here until McMahon started his expansion. ------------------- Anyway... The testing on the new promotion pact system is going well. I'm starting to see a lot more roster movement. More importantly, I've yet to have a career thwarted by a pact. Also, after watching the Steamboat v. Savage match from WM III for the first time last night (yeah... I'm ashamed, heh), I added a couple of moves; Deep Arm Drag, Falling Double Axe Handle, Punch to Arm, etc., and tweaked a few move sets.

[Jaded]

This gets more awesome every time I play it... currently playing my rookie, Jaime Roberts, in ASW and SWCW, got a fluke win of the ASW TV title in my debut there (2 minutes and 50 seconds!!), lost it in my second defense and have been trying to regain it from Randy Rich ever since!

[Guest .SVA]

Oh joy, oh happiness. A great scenaroi and I just got WreSpi 2 ten minutes ago. This is great! I'm certainly gonna enjoy myself, playing this scenario. I might even make a Dynasty! Oh, im so thrilled! :D

[Jaded]

Exhibition match, FINALLY managed to beat Flair playing with Robbie Brookside, nailing him with a beautiful Angel Press at the 25 minute mark! And somehow pressed C too fast to see the match rating :mad:

[D. Boons Ghost]

Heh! As a fan of Brookside, you might appreciate a couple of move additions for the next update. :) As a matter of record, in the very first post in this thread, I will document the upcoming additions in whatever update that is on the horizon. And speaking of, it's looking darned good. I've finally witnessed two things this weekend that I have yet to see in career testing; Bob Backlund loses the WWF Heavyweight title to Masked Superstar (which he should have historically, heh) - and... after three years and four different versions of DOTT, Hulk Hogan has finally beaten Nick Bockwinkel for the AWA World Heayweight strap. I had just about given up hope that Hogan would ever get that title there - heh. It might be silly, but the reason I selected 1983 as the starting date in these scenarios has always specifically been for the Bockwinkel v. Hogan feud. After all this time, I'm pretty stunned that the AI managed to pull Hogan's big win off. :)

[Jaded]

Can't wait for the update :) Once I've got through the tournament, think I'll try another diary with Robbie - this time, world domination WILL happen!! Although I'm sure it's easier with a bigger guy... anyone wanna see Shirley Crabtree as WWF Champion?!

[damiende]

Nice mod but you gotta keeep em finishers right. Terry Funk should have the spinning toehold as his finisher. Kevin Sullivan I think used a crossface chickenwing as his finisher in those days. Buddy Rose used a ddt variation called the Las Vegas something. Big John Studd used a Backbreaker or the Heartpunch. Barry Windham used the Superplex or a Bulldog Afa and Sika used the Samoan Drop as their finisher. These are just a few that I have seen is missing. Damiende [url]http://www.rmtexposed.com/cpg1.4.5/cpg145[/url]

[D. Boons Ghost]

Just because a move isn't specifically made for a wrestler does not mean it isn't there, Damiende. Had you looked at the worker move sets, you'd see that the only one actually missing from your list is Rose's DDT. We went over this during the shelf-life of the first Wrestling Spirit: D.O.T.T., though finisher madness may have clouded your recollections. ;)

[damiende]

Finisher madness nah I just want them to be correct. Like George Steele's Flying Hammerlock. Daniel

[D. Boons Ghost]

[QUOTE=damiende]... Like George Steele's Flying Hammerlock.[/QUOTE] Again... had you looked, you would see that move is already in as the 'Animal Elevated Hammerlock'. If it is the semantics that bother you, there's not much I can say.

[damiende]

I have played George the animal Steele several times. So I knew about your "Name change" And I renamed it to Flying Hammerlock. That's because that is name I have seen for that move. The reason for this is that I believe that if a finisher or a trademark move had a certain name it went under it should be named like those names. One that comes to mind is Iceman king Parsons butt bump. I dont know if you have named his finisher butt butt. But I did see the flying hip attack listed. Daniel

[damiende]

And one thing i came across is that the slingshot into turnbuckle move can be countered by going behind. That can't be right. Daniel

[D. Boons Ghost]

According to whom? It is a move I borrowed from Adam's data for the first Wrestling Spirit. I happen to agree with his counter set-ups for that particular move. Considering he left it for WreSpi 2, he must have as well. ;) Re: "Name Changes": When I watched Steele, they called it the elevated hammerlock. Regardless, I'm really not going to argue with you over the data, Damiende. I know you; it's a waste of time. I'm not a smark. I don't wish to be a prowres historian. And unlike others, I no longer pretend this (or any) scenario is anything more than what it really is: a silly little hobby for silly little hobbyists such as myself. I'm simply someone who has tried to maintain the nostalgia I feel for the era I grew up in, despite having to come into contact with over-analytical, one rung below soap opera fanatic wrestling fans during the course of its research. And here's where I'm supposed to say... [i]'And that's a shoot, bro!'.[/I] I share this with others in the hopes I can help them do the same, as well as helping Adam and GDS sell at least one more copy of Adam's work. That's it. If you disagree with what I called a move or the stats for it, so be it. That's the beauty of the editor. Hopefully it doesn't get too much in the way of your enjoying the data.