Question about popularity and storylines...

[MrKain]

I've noticed that in the game the only way to gain popularity is to win. But in real life that's not true... if you put on great matches, even jobbers become known. Shouldn't the actual matches you're in help your popularity, also? I mean, think about it this way... Mikey Whipwreck. He lost every match he was in for ages, but because he was so good at it, the fans backed him up, and soon he "accidentally" won the world title. Same with Spike Dudley. The other thing I'm a little lost is that the game has no storylines. I really think that if you could put the TEW storyline ideals into the game, so that they could somewhat randomze when you're in feuds, it could be really cool. TEW was great for the storylines (though complicated as hell...) but WreSpi2 seems to be a little behind in that aspect... My reason for asking this is because after having a long five match feud with E.M.M.Moe, in which I beat him down pretty hard in a 2/3 Fall match in the end, the week after suddenly he was my tag partner for the tag team titles in CZCW... That made no sense whatsoever. :(

[Sartagis]

The idea behind WreSpi 2 is that the wrestling world is more of a legit wrestling then real life, thus why you only get more popular through a win. Take boxing for example a guy can have 20 great matches but if he lost all 20 he isn't gonna be too popular despite every match being great. Now maybe a small pop gain for a highly rated match but be ok but nothing too much.

[Remianen]

MrKain, I don't think you're 'getting' WreSpi. TEW is the game with all the pomp and circumstance behind the wrestling business. WreSpi is the fighting half. Nothing in this game is as important as the in-ring action. IMO, nothing in this game should even approach the in-ring action. Also, realize that every promotion doesn't even LIKE storylines. Several of them are staunchly against them. So would you have Pure, Hybrid, and Underground promotions use storylines too? Personally, I can do without the storylines. If they don't get me paid, leave 'em out. Why? Because gettin' paid is the only way I have to improve myself therefore things that don't get me paid (or contribute to me gettin' paid) are things I'm not interested in. Improving my skills costs money. To earn money, I have to win matches (not participate in storylines). Give me more matches! :)

[MrKain]

I don't know. I've actually done some wrestling, and although I know that you have to appease the fans to make them cheer, there's something added to a match when there's a story to tell. Not only would you be fighting to win a match, but you'd also be trying to tell a story with your fists, to make the fans like you more. Popularity is NOT based on wether you win or lose in the business, but how good of a show you put on. I'm not saying this is a bad game, but I really think that there's a lot missing from this that isn't portrayed. TEW is about that, but I would LOVE to get into the shoes of a wrestler and do that on top of actually wrestling the matches, you know? What is the point of having enemies in a federation, or friends, then? What is the point of run-ins, and title matches? I'm not saying a 100% linear storyline. I'm saying when you ask for a feud, there should be a storyline placed into it. Make it a choice thing... you know? Otherwise, what's really the point of the feud option in the game? It doesn't even get you more money in the end. And for that matter, then that option is completely pointless as a feud wouldn't be legit in wrestling at all then... ESPECIALLY if everything is ranked on popularity. In the end, popularity means absolutely nothing in the game, then. It should just be called rank.

[Remianen]

I totally understand what you're saying and I agree with it to a point. But there comes a time when all the ancillary stuff starts to bog the game down. Popularity in WreSpi seems to be your foot in the door. If you're someone like Chris Masters (no skills but a good look and some popularity), you can get a job with a bigtime promotion because you have what they're looking for (popularity). To a certain extent, popularity IS rank as that determines your push. But I think the beauty of WreSpi2 is in its simplicity. In WreSpi1, in order to really do myself any good, I had to string out matches far longer than I would've liked to. Sure, it made things a bit less controlled on my end where an opponents who COULD'VE been pinned 5 mins ago comes back to beat me because I was trying to pad the match rating, but that assaulted my sensibility. In RL, in a fight, I'm putting the SOB out ASAP since to string the fight out any longer would mean more charges that can be tacked onto my case. The longer the fight lasts, the weaker my 'self defense' plea looks. :p In wrestling, it's almost cliché the way a match can be extended due to one person trying to pull off just another big spot. Or, as it used to be back in the day, pinning the opponent and then lifting them up at the count of 2. WreSpi2 takes its cue from boxing in this respect, as Sartagis alluded to. The 37-0 fighter is MUCH more marketable ("Can end his/her winning streak?!?") and thus, more popular than the 3-27-7 fighter who puts on great matches. No one cares how great the matches are. They care about who WON. Why keep win-loss records at all, if they don't mean anything? They don't mean anything in professional wrestling so why should they matter in the game? Because you need something to measure progress by other than who the fans like (or hate, in the case of heels) more. I like the simplicity of WreSpi2 now. You win, you make money. You make money, you make yourself better. You make yourself better, you get better jobs that make you more money. Repeat.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=MrKain]Popularity is NOT based on wether you win or lose in the business, but how good of a show you put on.[/QUOTE] I think the problem might be that you seem to be under the impression that WreSpi2 is supposed to mirror the real wrestling world. It's not. It is set in a [U]kayfabe world[/U]. Yes, we all know that in reality that winning isn't the be-all and end-all, but this isn't even attempting to mirror that. In short, this isn't a simulator trying to show what being a wrestling is really like in any way, it's a game set in a fantasy world where wrestling is real. [QUOTE]In the end, popularity means absolutely nothing in the game, then[/QUOTE] I don't really understand this statement at all. Popularity is key; the more popular you are, the better the jobs you can get, the more money you get, the more successful you are. The aim of the game is to have a good career, so popularity is one of your key elements.

[barbarossa]

Is there somo sort of guideline, daying: A Worker havin Popularity x gets a job at a promotion size y or lower? If there is such a guideline, where are the "critical points"?

[dime]

I think the complaint is that there is really no incentive to be a good performer or put on a good "show"; it's treated as football where the result is all that matters. I like the kayfabe environment, but at times it will clash with the user's RPG sensibilities. If I want to imagine I'm a pro wrestler, it's hard for me to pretend that I wouldn't care about things like selling ability or industry respect. In this game, you have no reason to care about those things. That said, I really love the potential of WreSpri and Markus' Inside the Park...athlete RPG/simulations are a fantastic game genre that hasn't even had its surface scratched yet!

[MrKain]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland]I don't really understand this statement at all. Popularity is key; the more popular you are, the better the jobs you can get, the more money you get, the more successful you are. The aim of the game is to have a good career, so popularity is one of your key elements.[/QUOTE] It's basically a ranking system in the game, though. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm just saying that the name of it doesn't exactly fit what it is. As even in the real world in boxing some of the world's best boxers lose matches but it doesn't make them lose popularity. Like UFC, Ken Shamrock came back for a one-night-only and lost. No one lost respect for him because of it, though. Meh... I guess it's because I liked the original TEW so much, that i wished this game ran like that as well. It'd be fun to play as a wrestler having to work stories and such... But here's my big question then, Adam... what is the real point in having feuds in the game, then? Why is that an option if a feud just makes you fight the same guy over and over again for no reason. I'm sorry if I sound like a pain in the bleepside... I really do like the game, but I guess it kinda loses the emotion connection that TEW did in my eyes.