Flashiness without aerial?

[Blackman]

The way I understand the instructions of the manual, it seems that Flashiness as a stat matters only if the Aerial stat of the worker is the highest of all primary skills and therefore is used in the match calculations. If it's not it has no effect. For the worker's stats like on the screenshot, it is a therefore useless stat, apart from shaping the player's perception of the worker, because Aerial will never feature in match calculations unless you put him in a "high flying" match type, which would be a bit stupid.

My suggestion would be to have the effect add to the other categories as well. The Rock, for one, is a flashy brawler who - as far as I know - rarely went on the turnbuckle if at all. But he sure was flashy, and I would argue that his flashiness definitely had an effect on his in-ring performance. It wasn't just his amazing charisma. His brawling got augmented by it, as well as the sharpshooter, were he in a submission match. In the game, this isn't correctly represented. Modders might as well ignore the stat as there's no in-game effect, not even hiring preferences.

[TheDeep5ix]

I agree that Flashiness should be reworked to be more of a Showmanship kind of stat. TEW tries to describe flashiness as how exciting a wrestler is and how they "wow an audience" (based on the Creative section of Show Stoppers, anyhow), yet being limited to just Aerial is too limiting. They are plenty of flashy technical and power moves that I've seen wrestlers do to "wow an audience", yet you can't replicate that in TEW as easily.

I get that Charisma might kinda do what a reworked Flashiness would do, but they're not mutually exclusive. Like, I would consider Alexa Bliss to be charismatic, but not very flashy in terms of her most recent matches.

Speaking of useless stats, I really wish Power did more in TEW. It should realistically be part of the Primary skills (or a modifier on them like Athleticism), not just limited to creating a few spots every now and then.

[Blackman]

6 hours ago, TheDeep5ix said:

Speaking of useless stats, I really wish Power did more in TEW. It should realistically be part of the Primary skills (or a modifier on them like Athleticism), not just limited to creating a few spots every now and then.

I wanted to make a separate post for that one too. Those are the two stats that annoy me the most as they do so little.

Similar to athleticism, power could have special spots during matches that elevate the match. I remember the angles with Braun Stroman where he throws a grappling hook and lifts a truck. Sure, you could use menace for that to make it somehow ok, but for some spots in matches, you gotta have the power or it doesn't happen.

[benjirino]

17 hours ago, TheDeep5ix said:

I agree that Flashiness should be reworked to be more of a Showmanship kind of stat.

That's how I've always understood it myself. Like I wouldn't call Shawn Michaels an aerial guy, but I struggle to think of many people flashier in the ring.

[benjirino]

10 hours ago, Blackman said:

I wanted to make a separate post for that one too. Those are the two stats that annoy me the most as they do so little.

Similar to athleticism, power could have special spots during matches that elevate the match. I remember the angles with Braun Stroman where he throws a grappling hook and lifts a truck. Sure, you could use menace for that to make it somehow ok, but for some spots in matches, you gotta have the power or it doesn't happen.

And angles. Feats of strength are a major part of a lot of older wrestling angles and shows (obviously they can be gimmicked to an extent, but still).

[Skummy]

If anything, this is a question of how you interpret the word "Flashiness", not a shortcoming of the stat. Its role in the game is a modifier for Aerial, that's it, so whether The Rock's punches are especially "flashy" is irrelevant to flashiness as the game understands it. It's basically the difference between a high-flyer doing a Top Rope Splash or a Sky Twister Press. That is explicitly what the stat means, and nothing else; so either it's a question or replacing Flashiness with a new "Showmanship" stat, adding Showmanship as an additional stat, or renaming Flashiness to something else.

What you're describing in terms of Shawn Michaels or The Rock having an extra flair in how they wrestle in general, to me that falls somewhere in Charisma and Star Quality.

 

I agree that I would like to see more uses of Strength as an important stat or modifier; it might not be possible to get this granular, but it could play into the Min/Max weight difference for finishing moves - a wrestler with a very high Strength stat would be able to perform certain moves on someone far heavier than someone with a lower strength stat, and that could affect their ability to perform certain moves, or at least to perform them well.

"Feat Of Strength" could even be a road agent note for a match or angle, to simulate something like Hogan slamming André, or Brock Lesnar hitting the F-5 on Big Show for the first time, or the kind of angles that benjirino mentioned. It could have positive and negative effects - Cesaro bodyslamming Big Show can give the match a higher rating, maybe give him a momentum/popularity boost for how impressive it is, but if someone bodyslams Big Show every week, that positive boost can be slowed or even reversed, and it ceases to be special, and trying to overuse the same spot could hurt the quality of the match.

Aiming for a Feat Of Strength, or a finishing move that requires a high Strength stat to cover the weight difference, with someone who maybe isn't strong enough to achieve it would have negative effects - a worker with a more caring or cautious personality might refuse to do it, a road agent might warn you against it, but a more mercenary or selfish worker might go ahead and try the spot as instructed without trying to talk you out of it (and a poor road agent might not pick up on it), and increase the risk of injury to either worker by botching the spot. While there should be a degree of randomness in whether the spot works or not, it should also scale based on the ration between Strength and weight to replicate how likely it is that the spot would go to plan on those grounds -to keep with the slamming Big Show analogy, Mark Henry doing it would be an almost 100% success rate, while Rey Mysterio Jr. doing it would be closer to 0%, even with a high Safety stat.

[Blackman]

Then why not scrap it? Why not just raise or lower the aerial stat? Its easy to assume a 90 aerial guy is going to do the flashy stuff and not a body splash. 

It could serve a purpose for AI hiring rules but that doesnt seem to be the case. 

Flashy striking is not always better striking to some. So definitely a case to be made for a "showmanship" stat instead. 

[amdi331]

I think someone like Zach Sabre Jr. is a good example of non-aerial flashiness. His work is obviously technical but in a different manner to a lot of MMA-based technical workers, far more entertaining and showboat-y. Maybe there's an attribute that would represent that but I can't think of an appropriate one.

[fourbrothers366]

So overall, I think the easiest way is to have Flashiness be a sub-stat for each primary stat base on what stat is being used for the match (Hardcore match using Hardcore, High spots using Aerial, ETC) (basically the way it works right now, except for all stats not just aerial) then, if there is ever any sequel to TEW IX, they can do more of a deep dive into the stat and maybe change the name and such. 

I will also state that Flashiness should be also an important stat for Steal the Show, Epic, and Once in a Lifetime road agent notes. 

Lastly, as someone else suggested, maybe a road agent note for "worker A does a feat of strength during the match" with the possibility of boosting the match rating with a greater chance of succeeding based on Power of the worker. 

Just trying to summarize the request while trying to make it easy to mod/patch/code it cause if we are trying to change a lot, its not going to happen until the next version (again, if there is one).