loyalty (questions/discussion)

[panix04]

Another interesting feature, i do not follow the Japanese scene personally but i could see this having cool implications elsewhere - Undertaker with loyalty to the WWE anybody? Just a small question will you be able to see the stat in-game - or will it be hinted at when you try to sign someone who is affected by it?

[Adam Ryland]

It is shown in-game. Regarding the Undertaker example, the Loyalty stat is really meant to be used in conjunction with Japan only (although of course if people choose to use it elsewhere that's there choice!), as the concept isn't really part of US culture.

[panix04]

i kinda figured that, i just thought that the stats may be appropriate for a few of the US workers as well, not so much the freelance stat, moreso the loyalty stat. I was just thinking that people like the aformentioned undertaker are highly unlikely to leave there company, so despite the fact that the stat was designed with Japan in mind would it acuratly simulate undertakers loyalty towards the WWE? Or from a mod-making perspective would he be better off without it?

[Hawk1665]

This, for someone who plays the Japanese side of the Verse alot, is such an AWESOME addition. The "Freelancer" thing is something that happens quite abit in Japan, with people such as Kensuke Sasaki, Yoshihiro Takayama, Minoru Suzuki, Genichiro Tenryu, and so on not being tied down to any one promotion for long. This, along with the revamped touring as was hinted earlier, could be such an amazing boost to the Japanese data's from the Verse to real life. Awesome addition, easily one of my favorite so far. Edit: And to elaborate Adam's point...In America, you'd go where the money is. In Japan, you have someone like Hayabusa, who was one of the greatest highfliers in the history of wrestling. He REFUSED to join major companies long term, and stayed with FMW, the promotion that found him until his untimely in-ring injury that crippled him. That's what the point of this is. Now getting Emerald Angel from WLW is gonna be friggin impossible.

[Adam Ryland]

Hawk is correct, I think the accepted principal is that "In America, you'd go where the money is". Undertaker isn't really a good example of loyalty as, putting aside the strong rumours about him almost jumping to WCW, he's in such a strong position in the WWE (both financially and politically) that we don't have any idea if he actually would jump if given a better offer. He may have been there for over a decade, but you have to remember that he's been drawing big money almost the entire time, so you have to weigh up his "loyalty" with the fact it wouldn't be in his own best interests to have gone anywhere else anyway. The other guy people always mention is Sting staying loyal to WCW throughout the years, but again, if you take a critical look you have to say that his "loyalty" was probably helped by the fact he was making bucketloads of money and so had a nice safe position. There's probably one or two cases in the US of genuinely loyal wrestlers shunning bigger offers, but the reality of the situation is that that's is extremely, extremely rare. As Hawk mentioned, in Japan it's more commonplace.

[panix04]

damn greedy americans! (just talking about the wrestlers obviously!) I see your point, but for the handful of people who it does apply to outside of Japan, it is ok to use it? Thanks for clearing this up!

[Akki]

I'm guessing it would actually work for maybe Shawn Michaels, because I remember hearing about him getting a huge offer from WCW but turning it down to keep working in WWF. This could be because he had already forged ties with Vince McMahon, but I'm not sure. I guess if he had, it would be more loyalty to the owner, so that brings up a question. How much of a difference is there between loyalty to a promotion and that to an owner? Also, what would happen if you set a worker to be Loyal but to be unemployed? Or what would happen if a Loyal worker was released? Also, do generated workers in the game use one of these (obviously if they work in a region where it is on) or are they all set to None?

[panix04]

he does mention that loyaltys change in the original post, so i would imagine that generated workers would also develop loyalties

[D-Lyrium]

Like Adam said, guys like Michaels and Undertaker are only loyal because they money's good. If you were to use the Loyalty thing in the US, the best example would probably be Tommy Dreamer to ECW. But as for current examples, there are probably very few. Daniels and Styles to RoH possibly, but I don't know if they're still allowed to work there now, so probably not. [quote]Also, what would happen if you set a worker to be Loyal but to be unemployed?[/quote] The way I read it, you set them to be loyal to a specific promotion, not just 'Loyal'. So if you set someone to be loyal to CZW, and the started the game Unemployed, I'm guessing CZW would hire them sooner or later. [quote]Also, do generated workers in the game use one of these (obviously if they work in a region where it is on) or are they all set to None?[/quote] Again I'm guessing, but Loyal and Freelance are rare occurances, so I'm guessing 99% of generated workers will start off as None, like 90% of the rest of the database. They might develop loyalties as they go, though. [quote]How much of a difference is there between loyalty to a promotion and that to an owner?[/quote] I'm guessing (again) that the only real difference would be that if the owner quit, or took over a different promotion, the worker would still be loyal to the original promotion. Possibly loyalty to an owner is stronger, I dunno. Interesting point though, what if someone is loyal to a promotion, but also loyal to an owner of a different promotion? And what if the two promotions end up going to war? :p Clowns to the left of him, Jokers to his right... here he is stuck in the dole queue :p

[Adam Ryland]

D-Lyrium is correct, the common sense answers to all those questions are right.

[dime]

I'd love to play the cornellverse in america or canada with this feature on...will existing workers there have loyalty values or will it only be built in for the japanese workers?

[darkfire423]

For those who dont know japan to well.....picture if TNA backed a big truck load of money up to Hogans house......Hogan is loyal to Vince. Always has. He would have to have a BIIIIIIIGGGG truck and Vinces blessing.....like he did when he went to WCW.....

[Jacko00]

Yes, I was going to bring up Hogan, he will work WWE events every so often, but that may also be to do with the fame and money. How about US indy workers like Daniels and Styles? I would say that they were freelancers and AJ has turned down WWE cause of his wife, and stays on the indy scene.

[Lukiep8]

[QUOTE=darkfire423;140115]For those who dont know japan to well.....picture if TNA backed a big truck load of money up to Hogans house......Hogan is loyal to Vince. Always has. He would have to have a BIIIIIIIGGGG truck and Vinces blessing.....like he did when he went to WCW.....[/QUOTE] Yay, and nay... The thing with the loyalty in Japan, is that EVERYONE is loyal to the promotion that breaks them into the business, but it also depends on the actual character of the person. Eg. Katsuyori Shibata was treated really well in New Japan, and was loyal to them, and still is (in a sense), but he didn't like the direction of the company, and wanted to bring across a new worked-shoot style, so chose to leave New Japan and held form BML.

[Thriller]

[QUOTE=Hawk1665;140033]The "Freelancer" thing is something that happens quite abit in Japan, with people such as Kensuke Sasaki, Yoshihiro Takayama, Minoru Suzuki, Genichiro Tenryu, and so on not being tied down to any one promotion for long.[/QUOTE] Whenever I use Danger Kumasaka in the game I often wonder if he was created with Tenryu in mind, but then again Tenryu isnt exactly a submission expert. But anyway, this feature is great :).

[Guest Acenate Prophet]

Hogan [QUOTE=darkfire423;140115]For those who dont know japan to well.....picture if TNA backed a big truck load of money up to Hogans house......Hogan is loyal to Vince. Always has. He would have to have a BIIIIIIIGGGG truck and Vinces blessing.....like he did when he went to WCW.....[/QUOTE] I've never been under the impression Hogan was that loyal to Vince. Besides him taking WCW to war with WWE for so many years, he's had numerous conflicts with Vince and went so far as to make a TNA appearance or two. I can only see loyalty contracts applying in the U.S. for people like HHH - who would probably fall under a lifetime contract anyway. So it really probably is best suited for Japan.

[Akki]

When I talked about Michaels, I meant that apparently his offer to go to WCW had a lot more green in it than his WWF contract, but he stayed. I think one person I could use an example of now (and it really hit me) is Chris Jericho. He said that if he ever comes back to wrestle, it will be in WWE. He said that's where he wants his career to end, and something about mucking with history, I believe. I also think that for Styles and Joe, or just about any wrestler on a TNA contract, it's hard to simulate in-game. TNA wrestlers are allowed to work the indies (as long as those idies don't have TV shows), but their contract still counts mostly as what a Written contract is in TEW. By that, I mean they can't sign an actual contract with another promotion (WWE) without breaking the contract and facing the consequences. The only difference between a TNA contract and a written contract is the ability to work indies (this is probably more due to the fact that TNA runs a few shows a month and doesn't have house shows except the sporadic UWF ones and the wrestlers need to make money somewhere) and that workers get paid by appearance (and for nights when multiple episodes of iMPACT! are taped, they get paid for however many shows they work. I guess I really went off on a tangent here, but my point is that TNA contracts can't be simulated properly in the game, and with the differenct contract types already announced, won't be in 07. Loyalty, right? :cool:

[shipshirt]

Freelance = Bruiser Brody (although moreso his US runs). This will be a very cool feature to use with DOTT...especially with AJPW and NJPW.

[D-Lyrium]

AJ has also said (almost a direct quote) "Business is business, don't get all excited if I turn up in WWE by 2010". So I wouldn't go as far as saying he was a freelancer. Just enjoying his time in TNA at the moment. Besides, Styles has what is essentially a written contract (I agree with Akki, although contracts are contracts, whatever the terms of them), which would be a bit hypocritical for a Freelancer :p

[NickC13573]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland;140031]It is shown in-game. Regarding the Undertaker example, the Loyalty stat is really meant to be used in conjunction with Japan only (although of course if people choose to use it elsewhere that's there choice!), as the concept isn't really part of US culture.[/QUOTE] Isn't in the US of A. Rhino wont go to WWE because he is loyal to TNA. Team 3D wont go back to the E. Aj wont go to the E either.

[kettley]

Oooh it's been ages since I've posted round here... Although this probably isn't the most appropriate place to discuss this I thought I'd mention it anyways as it annoys me. The whole AJ Styles is loyal theory does my nut in. Yes he turned down a contract with the WWE a few years back but the thing that seems to have been forgotten about that story is that he was only offered a standard WWE Developmental Deal worth $25k a year. Considering he was a huge deal on the indie scene at the time he could pick and chose his own dates and make substantially more than that.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=NickC13573;140172]Isn't in the US of A. Rhino wont go to WWE because he is loyal to TNA. Team 3D wont go back to the E. Aj wont go to the E either.[/QUOTE] I think you're very probably in a minority with those opinions Nick.

[hurricanendp]

agreed, Rhino? loyal to TNA? no, he ripped up a WWE cotnract, he burned his ECW title, that to me just says he wants to make a statement that he's not going back, if ROH all of a sudden get a new financial backer that is willing to pay Rhino double his TNA salary you think he'll stay with TNA? hell no! Same with Dudleys, they weren't, if i remember correctly, contacted about returning to ECW, but i'm sure if WWE threw enough money their way they'd return. And as for AJ, yeah, he is loyal to TNA, but as already noted, he's enjoying his time with them, but he knows he can get more money elsewhere, so if he does leave TNA, it will be to WWE, and it'll be on more money aswell

[Hawk1665]

You just really can't compare what happens in Japan to what happens in the US...Basicly, in Japan, you are usually brought up within the system of the promotion, which immediately breeds loyalty to the fed given how HARD the training often is. You also generally have loyalty to those who take you under their wing and help you improve. It's 100% different from the US, where you jsut...show up and wrestle as an indy guy. The Freelance is what's got me excited. That could have maaaajor implications of a Japanese data. What if you're building up Hyobanishi in PGHW only to find out that he thinks he shouldn't have a long term deal when his current one expires, and he starts going to GCG, BHOTWG, and INSPIRE *WHILE* being your champ? Could be awwwwwwesome.

[weirdo_man]

Team 3D isn't not going to the WWE because they like TNA, they're not going to WWE because they dislike Vince and what was done to them, more than likely. Team 3D probably isn't too happy about Vince copyrighting everything about their team, and in the rare times that I've watched TNA, I've seen Team 3D insult the WWE several times. Maybe there should also be likes/dislikes for promotions...