cheeky question for Adam

[Sartagis]

That's definitely where it is headed the only problem lies in continuity and egos.

[D16NJD16]

[QUOTE=Phil Parent;159350]Well, everybody knows I've walked that line between fiction and reality and I'll tell you, reality is limited, fantasy is not. If you've got the imagination, fantasy is always more fun. The sim has become so detailed that you need a tremendous commitment to create and maintain an extensive real-world database. Back when I started in sims, we had 2 numerical values to fill for wrestlers, basically, talent & overness. And then we had like a 30 characters bio, a face/heel switch, a push indicator, and I think that was it. Feds were about as "Hard" to mod, And we were limited to having two controllable feds anyway, with a third fed existing, but being non-controllable. It was easy to put 2000 wrestlers in Promotion Wars pretty much by myself because it was so damn simple. Compare that to what you need to do today. A single guy who has something like a life can't do a whole set on his own, even somebody like Jeff Cartwright, probably the best data man in the sim world ever and the guy who did the EWR updates pretty much on his own, couldn't do it. [/QUOTE] I heard it pushed him over the edge of sanity, and he fled to the mountains somewhere, is there any truth to that?

[D16NJD16]

[QUOTE=Phil Parent;159350]Well, everybody knows I've walked that line between fiction and reality and I'll tell you, reality is limited, fantasy is not. If you've got the imagination, fantasy is always more fun. The sim has become so detailed that you need a tremendous commitment to create and maintain an extensive real-world database. Back when I started in sims, we had 2 numerical values to fill for wrestlers, basically, talent & overness. And then we had like a 30 characters bio, a face/heel switch, a push indicator, and I think that was it. Feds were about as "Hard" to mod, And we were limited to having two controllable feds anyway, with a third fed existing, but being non-controllable. It was easy to put 2000 wrestlers in Promotion Wars pretty much by myself because it was so damn simple. Compare that to what you need to do today. A single guy who has something like a life can't do a whole set on his own, even somebody like Jeff Cartwright, probably the best data man in the sim world ever and the guy who did the EWR updates pretty much on his own, couldn't do it. [/QUOTE] I heard it pushed him over the edge of sanity, and he fled to the mountains somewhere, is there any truth to that?

[djthefunkchris]

If people that made mods (and I know some have said this before), would say if they mind someone else using it or not, as long as they put there name on the part they copied, wouldn't mind, more would be made faster... possibly. For example, if D-Boone say's, free for all to use in any way they want, long as it's not for sell or merchandising purposes (which bassically, they are, since it cannot be copyrighted anyways), and state they have no problem with future mod maker's using their mods as a base or whatever. I think alot of people would do at the very least, more updates... "Here is an update on FOTORC, using the FOTORC Database as the base." Some of you deal with Poser and Daz's Studio, and probably would understand what I am talking about a bit easier. What goes on there is this.... There is a ton of different websights, with free already made 3D figures, etc, as well as pose's, clothing, renders, lightsets, etc. With them come the often used (copy past) .txt document, stating "Free for use of however you choose", some will state that they do not wish you to sell their creations without their permission, other's don't care. The biggest thing they do that is very different from what is done here with mod's, is that people make the same things, only changing a couple of things, and throw it back to the general public. They come with "strings" attached sometimes. For example, they will put out different style's for a sweater someone else created. Sometimes it will have that created sweater in it (yet always letting you know, created with "X"s designer sweater), or if that sweater is being sold, they will just let you know that item is needed to properly use their freeby. Geometry files are often in another format that needs a certain program, to find the parent Geo file, so that it will work (requires it, so that people can make a unique creation out of it, but keep the original as needed to use them). In this spirit, and what has been suggested as how it will have to go sooner or later, perhaps using the full mods that people use, with additions to them from other's. Let's use FOTORC as an example: I want to take that mod, and recreate the roster's to be updated and maybe add in a few different workers that were not in the original layout. I would be allowed to say, FOTORC by "X" has now been updated by "Z" as of November 10!! Six month's later someone else use's the update by "Z", to make another update. The thing is, they are using this or that mod as a base, and then just trying to bring it up to date.

[djthefunkchris]

If people that made mods (and I know some have said this before), would say if they mind someone else using it or not, as long as they put there name on the part they copied, wouldn't mind, more would be made faster... possibly. For example, if D-Boone say's, free for all to use in any way they want, long as it's not for sell or merchandising purposes (which bassically, they are, since it cannot be copyrighted anyways), and state they have no problem with future mod maker's using their mods as a base or whatever. I think alot of people would do at the very least, more updates... "Here is an update on FOTORC, using the FOTORC Database as the base." Some of you deal with Poser and Daz's Studio, and probably would understand what I am talking about a bit easier. What goes on there is this.... There is a ton of different websights, with free already made 3D figures, etc, as well as pose's, clothing, renders, lightsets, etc. With them come the often used (copy past) .txt document, stating "Free for use of however you choose", some will state that they do not wish you to sell their creations without their permission, other's don't care. The biggest thing they do that is very different from what is done here with mod's, is that people make the same things, only changing a couple of things, and throw it back to the general public. They come with "strings" attached sometimes. For example, they will put out different style's for a sweater someone else created. Sometimes it will have that created sweater in it (yet always letting you know, created with "X"s designer sweater), or if that sweater is being sold, they will just let you know that item is needed to properly use their freeby. Geometry files are often in another format that needs a certain program, to find the parent Geo file, so that it will work (requires it, so that people can make a unique creation out of it, but keep the original as needed to use them). In this spirit, and what has been suggested as how it will have to go sooner or later, perhaps using the full mods that people use, with additions to them from other's. Let's use FOTORC as an example: I want to take that mod, and recreate the roster's to be updated and maybe add in a few different workers that were not in the original layout. I would be allowed to say, FOTORC by "X" has now been updated by "Z" as of November 10!! Six month's later someone else use's the update by "Z", to make another update. The thing is, they are using this or that mod as a base, and then just trying to bring it up to date.

[Lonewolf_92]

DJ chris, D. Boon's mod already has something like that in the readme. He asks that you ask for permission first (and maybe credit, I can't recall exactly). :) It's just that people rarely pay attention.

[Sartagis]

The only other problem with that DJ is what started to happen with FOTRC. Like 5 different updates to it came out, with one or two new feds adn some new workers....but none had teh same promotions or workers and alot the new workers weren't really done on the same scale and some of the added workers seem out of place. So ya couldn't really just take all the update and import the stuff because it took so much extra work as you (at least I did) would haev to go through and re-work some guys. Which was/is already a slight problem with the original FOTRC because it uses data from so many different people. Not to mention that you'd have a million of one database. If people did like was done with T-Zone where an existing database was used and then everything adjusted then the quality would stay but that still takes a long time and we'd still not see many mods come out. Personally i don't mind that there isn't many mods, there's maybe two or three years that aren't covered that could use one. And they are all for the most part well done. I'd take quality over quantity any day. Look at EWR and how many there was and how crappy so many were. I think with 07 we will see a rise in the amount of original databases with the random generation option. Some with some good history thought out and a good selection of promotions and workers.

[panix04]

i don't think anyone should be too harsh on the prominent mod-makers, i will admit that i have never really had any real contact with Jeff or Phil, but Whenever i have asked TCP, Forlan or D.Boon if i can borrow from there work they have all been really friendly, as long as you are not going to tweak/re-release they don't tend to mind!

[HughBatey4]

It's Panix! Woot! Woot! Panix is so l33t!

[panix04]

that wasn't there exact response Hugh, but it was along those lines!

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=panix04;159956]i don't think anyone should be too harsh on the prominent mod-makers, i will admit that i have never really had any real contact with Jeff or Phil, but Whenever i have asked TCP, Forlan or D.Boon if i can borrow from there work they have all been really friendly, as long as you are not going to tweak/re-release they don't tend to mind![/QUOTE] Aye, if nothing more, you have to have alot of "respect" for anyone putting in the time to do these mods. I praise every single mod I have, or have not played, for the simple fact of what it takes to get it done. Mainly TIME. There is also alot of historical data in the release notes of alot of these mods, probably the most notable one being DOTT. For those that seem to dissagree with what I mean, I think your not understanding what I mean, which is probably my fault. I have never been great at saying/typing exactly what I mean, with alot of things ussually left out, for what I believe is common scense ('till I re-read it days later, seeing I am wrong). Let's say PANIX comes out with a MOD that I truly love, and I play it for a while, but realise after about six month's, nothing new for this mod is out yet. Let's also say that I know alot more then I really do (I would not be the one to be able to truly do this, but let's just say my knowledge and opportunities to be able to do it, would be there), and feel that I can make a legitimate helpfull update to it. So I take Panix mod, copy it into a New Mod, re-date it, and start on the updates. I would add worker's, and change popularity for other's, maybe add upgrades to skills, as some people do improve. Put people on Hiatus that are, give appropriate injuries (to those that are truly Out of Action for long periods of time), and bassically edit everything that has changed in the last six months, without totally changing the whole mod to something totally different. I then copy my edited version of Panix Mod, and release it as Update to PANIX Mod, july 07! Another way, you could get the more specialty mods around, say a Lucha Mod, Japan Mod, etc, that are all in the same time frame. Combine them into one bigger Mod, and when you release it, say EXACTLY what it is. As for all of these things, you would want (although you don't HAVE to have) permission from any and ALL MOD Maker's before doing anything for the general public. You don't just take someone's hard work and claim it as your's in either case. That is called stealing, and no one likes a thief. I know every one of the mod makers have posted their support for anyone that want's to make a mod, and ussually tell them to feel free to use any of their work they might need to make the progress go a bit faster. This is probably because every mod maker knows what it takes to do them. However, people are fickle sometimes, and you taking then leaving some of their work out just because YOU feel it isn't required, doesn't leave a good taste in all of their mouths, although I have seen some say feel free to do exactly that as well. So this is nothing to do with the MOD maker's willingness to help, etc.. as I don't know any that aren't willing to lend you something to any project you want to do. My main concern is that their work doesn't get abused. They should get proper credit, even if you edit the whole thing, since YOU didn't do the original work it took to make it, THEY did that. Some people, such as the guy (forgive the lack of names) that specialize's in the Japanese promotions, just do not like people taking what they create, then chopping it to piece's to make it fit their MOD. They would prefer you to create your own, in these case's, instead of taking from something. Want to use it, then it's all or nothing (kind of). Everything used having to have a special consent is what I am against though. I would like the use of mod's to be put in a txt note (I know some do this already), with the MOD maker saying exactly what he is willing to let his mod be used for. This way, let's say the mod maker dissapear's (this has happened) for a good amount of time, YOU know exactly what they will let you do, and what they wont. SO if your a MOD maker, please leave a .txt note saying "Please do not use this for any other MOD", or "This mod can be used with any work done for any mod's" "Free to be used for anything" "This mod can be used in it's ENTIRETY only, for use of making mod's, that want the entirety of this mods promotions/workers/angles/etc. IF you want it for any other use, or want to change anything, please contact me at ......, thanks" Putting exactly what your willing to let people do with your work, can help tremendously, especially when the desire for upgrading it comes up, and your unable to reply because your computer blew up, or something.

[Cold Cobra]

I have a real world dataset that me and my friend do. It started off as a RaveX TEW update but has since taken a life of its own. We've added feds, taken away feds, added loads of indy workers and updated bios. I'm looking forward to updating it to TEW07. It will take a while due to my job, but hey... I can't actually run the game well until I get a new PC next year, so all I'll have is the updating! (TEW wise, I obviously have a life outside of it...)

[snowy mcblow]

Now, you all are gonna think this is a stupid question, but how do you do a mod. (Please, I'm relatively new at this.........) Do you need to be able to do coding? How basically does it work? Just curious. (I know, another idiot aksing another idiot question..........)

[Adam Ryland]

You do not need any coding ability - you simply need the TEW editor (that comes packaged with all copies of the game) and the patience to fill in all the different areas. It should take less time than ever to make a mod for TEW07, due to the Quick Add feature cutting the time it takes to create wrestlers.

[snowy mcblow]

Ok, I get it. Thanks, Adam. BTW....you do great work, looking forward to TEW07..............