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In any sports game I've ever played, my favorite thing has always been creating a world where the best of all eras come together in one. Babe Ruth hitting against Roger Clemens. Jim Brown rushing against the '85 Bears. Muhammad Ali battling Mike Tyson. That kind of thing. My hope is to accomplish that for TEW. The D.O.T.T. work is positively incredible, but it's based on a particular year. What I want to do is basically merge the best wrestlers ever, rated at their peak, into one database. I'm relatively new here, so I don't know how old school people here are, or if you're mostly 90s and on fans (which is fine, that's no knock). But given the popularity of the DOTT '83, my guess is there are a fair number of old school wrestling fans here. My proposal is this: I would post a series of spreadsheets with, say, 50 wrestlers a pop on them. I'd try and break it down by era, or fed, or somesuch to keep like guys together. Then it would be trusted to you to help rate them. You would rate only guys you felt knowledgable enough to rate. It's not like there's a requirement of you to rate 100 guys when you only really know a lot about 20 of them. If that's how much you know, that's how many you rate. Basically, what this would do is create consensus peak ratings for all of these guys. Nobody would take on a huge project on their own and everyone would have a say in it. A lot of you know this forum better than I do, so you would know if this could work better than I. But I think it would be a very cool project to put together. All feedback is appreciated. GH
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Go for it, I would love to see this. Of 'course, I would also love to see their actual debut year's and month's put up at the same time. That way I could also make my biggest dream, have a good starting point, and play the game over a 30 or 40 year time frame, and see who is the greatest in my game, compared to real life. You know, starting at like 1970 and ending at the current time. That would be very kewl for me. I like the idea of battling out with the best of the best of all time's as well... In fact, don't forget to put Mike Tyson, Ali, and of course Mr. T in this game as well. We don't want to forget the times they showed up, even if nothing but guest referee.
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I actually started work on a scenario exactly like this, but ditched it when I realised how much work it was for one person, hehe. I don't know about the spreadsheet idea, it will take too long to get a consensus on things. What I'd do is get a team of a few people together to work on seperate eras - 80's, 90's and 00's. Figure out a wrestler's peak so you don't have crossover (obviously Hogan and Flair would be made by the 80's guy), then import all the data. I wouldn't mind helping out with the 90's, and if you get some permission from the DOTT and FOTORC guys, you could use some of their data for the 80's and 00's? Would definitely reduce the workload.
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Not trying to stop you making this scenario, but in my opinion it would make the game soooo easy to have every worker as a star. If you are taking everyone at the height of their popularity and skill, then every worker is going to be A/A* overness, which will mean that every match, even as a small fed, will be coming out at A/A* ratings, thus making the point of the game (to be a good booker) redundant.
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Bah, you guys are missing the point really..... It's not about just playing the game and trying to be more popular with a MOD like this.... My thing would be having them all come out when they really did, but for this MoD, and I don't mean to talk for the OP, but for me it would NOT be about having the best promotion. It would just be to have these people get into feuds, see what happens, what legends would end up having the great match's, which one's don't get along, which ones do, etc. Having a little fun with the database is all this is about, not winning the game. In my opinion for TEW anyways, is it's not about winning the game. YOU have two different choice's, you can run it with yourself being booker and having to worry about the owner's specific goals, or......you can be the Owner and not worry about anything, thus never really having any goals outside of personal. This Database would just represent the "Ultimate" promotion, and mainly the "Ultimate" scenario. The never could happen, happens. I aggree that it would make for a challenging Wrespi Game. I just tried that game, and I didn't really like it, mainly because I am one of those people that says "Wow, that looks kewl!!" but if you asked me what move they did, I would have to explain the move, not knowing move's outside of thier finishers. I like TEW better mainly for the same reason I liked the GM mode in WWE game Smackdown vs. Raw. I never played the guys, I just let the AI decide who won. IF you play long enough, and get to putting the match's together in a certain way, you can end up with alot of your Pre-Made characters being on top. The same is true for TEW. You can have Hulk Hogan, The Rock, Andre the Giant, Samoa Joe, AJ STyles, etc.. all in the same promotion, but sooner or later, depending on how you book etc.. some of them will lose overness, and eventually your promotion will even itself out, even if everyone started as A+/A+. You could still "lose" later in the game, lol..........Although I don't believe I would ever tell anyone about it. Just the idea of having something like Jimmy Snuka in a feud with Jeff Hardy, or Andre vs. Big Show, etc... Just like now, only able to have the legends at their peaks as well... Brock Lesnar vs. Bobby Lashley (although technically this could still happen). How many people have had Umaga and Samoa Joe in a feud, just because they are both undefeated (or were) in Real life, yet cannot really duke it out being on seperate promotions. Bah, you guys get the point I'm sure. Just wanted to throw in my two cents on this. I support everything from Sci-Fi mods, to alien's invading earth, to real life mods, to historically unbalanced mods like the one the OP wants to do. I just think the more things we have available for the game, only makes it richer and more versatile, thus can appeal to many different people. I know the MoD featuring all the different games, such as Street Fighter, Mortal Combat etc.. if it's ever finished I can tell you my son would want to play that.. ALthough he has no interest in C-Verse or Real life Mods (would rather play Svs.R), however something with the other games he plays, all in one mod would appeal highly to him. All-Time Database = ALL TIME GREATEST (they done it for Boxing, and went pretty good, so doing it for Wrestling might be something people really would like to see). Although I do think if this mod is ever made, it should be for both platforms... TEW as well as WreSpi. Just a matter of time and willing people to convert the information after its completed.
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[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;162052] Bah, you guys get the point I'm sure. Just wanted to throw in my two cents on this. I support everything from Sci-Fi mods, to alien's invading earth, to real life mods, to historically unbalanced mods like the one the OP wants to do. I just think the more things we have available for the game, only makes it richer and more versatile, thus can appeal to many different people. I know the MoD featuring all the different games, such as Street Fighter, Mortal Combat etc.. if it's ever finished I can tell you my son would want to play that.. ALthough he has no interest in C-Verse or Real life Mods (would rather play Svs.R), however something with the other games he plays, all in one mod would appeal highly to him. All-Time Database = ALL TIME GREATEST (they done it for Boxing, and went pretty good, so doing it for Wrestling might be something people really would like to see). Although I do think if this mod is ever made, it should be for both platforms... TEW as well as WreSpi. Just a matter of time and willing people to convert the information after its completed.[/QUOTE] Very well said. I totally agree. I think this could potentially be a very good thing. Not only because the all in one nature of this database would exapnd the appeal of the game. But also because of the interesting variations that might happen as things evened out. I used to play TNM this way back in the day when it was king. And over the course of my TNM, one of my game's personal legends was Kamala. Yes. The Ugandan Giant. That Kamala. I'd never set out to make an iconic figure of him. What I did was sign guys to my circuit and hold cards like wrestling was a real sport. Usually letting the computer decide all the winners and moving guys up or down based on record. Somehow utilizing this system, Kamala rose to the top time and again. And I always used the default stats. So it wasn't like I'd made some mutant hybrid of the guy either.
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[QUOTE=Rob4590;162040]Not trying to stop you making this scenario, but in my opinion it would make the game soooo easy to have every worker as a star. If you are taking everyone at the height of their popularity and skill, then every worker is going to be A/A* overness, which will mean that every match, even as a small fed, will be coming out at A/A* ratings, thus making the point of the game (to be a good booker) redundant.[/QUOTE] Actually Rob, that's not really true. Remember, A/A* ratings, especially with regard to overness, are very much a generational thing. Like, you could say The Rock & Stone Cold would be A* overness but would Ronnie Garvin or Ric Flair in their primes reach that level? Nope, because the industry hadn't gotten to the level of popularity (not to mention worldwide exposure) required for them to do so. Besides, I don't think a mod like this would be made for the purpose of challenging folks. It would best serve as a great jump-off point for "What if?" type scenarios.
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I like the idea myself. and have what may or may not be a good idea to consider along with it. As for All-Time Greats in other sports, wondering what would happen if Babe Ruth batted against Roger Clemons and all, I've often wondered who'd win a series between the 1927 Yankees and the 1961 Yankees. Long story short, for the purposes of TEW, you could divide the game world into all-time great promotions. Like, you could have the WWWF, with Bruno Sammartino as its figurehead, the WWF, headed up by Hulk Hogan, WWF: New Generation, headed up by Bret Hart, and WWF: Attitude, headed up by Stone Cold Steve Austin and The Rock, just for example. Not sure how well this would gell with the rest of the concept here, just seemed an interesting concept to me. :)
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[QUOTE=javier_83;161997]Hi Gforce what a surprise looking you here :D so also do you like wrestling :D[/QUOTE] Hey Javier! Hope all is well. I used to like wrestling, don't really pay much attention anymore. I guess in the database situation I'm discussing, I'd be totally unqualified to rate guys from 2000 on :) GH
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Thanks for the feedback guys. I appreciate all the responses, and believe me, I understand this may not be everyone's cup of tea for the reasons previously mentioned. I just think it would be fascinating to have a greats universe. I don't have the game in front of me, and I only played the '05 demo. But if I'm recalling ratings right, you could set popularity based on where guys did the best. I mean, I'd want to implement Japanese stars into this if we could get enough people who know enough to rate them accurately. But their popularity would, for most, be very local there. For some guys who were huge in the 80s, they were over in southeast or midwest, perhaps, but not really universally (think someone like Kerry Von Erich). Grading on somewhat of a curve would be necessary, I'd think. But if you think about it, the most popular wrestler of all-time, universally, would be Hogan. His "overness" would be 100, or A*. You could work down from there. There's a lot of leeway here for options as to how to go about this. Someone brought up the point before about Flair compared with the Rock or Austin. Do you punish Flair in terms of overness because his prime was before wrestling was international? I can see both sides. I hope we keep throwing out ideas, discussing this and maybe we can develop something people will enjoy. As for the all-time great promotions, it's an interesting concept, I'm just wondering if you would have a hard time grouping guys appropriately. A lot of guys made their mark in multiple places. Guys who were huge in Mid-South, such as Junkyard Dog, DiBiase...those guys are known to more people for their WWF work...but their BEST work was probably down South. Keep up the discussion. I hope this can develop into something. Have the ratings categories for TEW '07 been released yet? GH
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[QUOTE=GForce22;162141] Have the ratings categories for TEW '07 been released yet? [/QUOTE] Yep. F- and A* cover 5%. The rest of the categories are 6% each. But I think for the purpose of this thread it's best to talk in numbers. I agree with your last post - a Hogan, Austin or Rock would be high 90's. A Goldberg or Andre The Giant would be mid 90's. A Flair or Savage would be just on the cusp of 90. Then, as you said, you work your way down. Regional overness would definitely help to balance things out. Flair might be 88 in the North, but 94 in the Carolinas. The Ultimate Warrior would be 90 in strong-WWF areas, but lower in the South. Your DiBiase and JYD problem is an interesting one. I think for things like this, we ignore their working peak and look to their peak of successs. JYD was never hotter than he was in Mid-South, just like DiBiase was never hotter than when in the Hogan/Andre feud. I think the most difficult problem is figuring out how to incorporate the older workers into the modern game. Do we have an NWA and a TNA? A WWF and a WWE? Do we include new workers who are yet to make their mark, like Rob Conway or David Young, and if we do, do we also include old workers who never made it big, like S.D Jones?
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Include whatever, and as many as you want to. That's the point to making something YOU want, or in this case the OP. He wants feedback, and wants help in planning it so that everyone has somewhat of a say so, even if it's very minimal... Someone here might know alot about one worker, where some other's might know tons about a dozen workers. Long as the posts are as objective as possible, and supportive as well as constructive, this should really be interesting in the long run. Just do me a favor, and rate the Looks of the Ladies as they really look, unless someone can find a place where it says that looks is not what looks means, lol. I looked it up over and over, and no where have I found anything saying different yet. It does say that there are other things to consider, that would make someone's look better.... Like the Massiveness of Lashley, maybe upping his looks, but nothing saying if they look good but are wrestle bad, then they should not look as good as they do, lol.
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[QUOTE=tommytomlin;162151]Yep. F- and A* cover 5%. The rest of the categories are 6% each. But I think for the purpose of this thread it's best to talk in numbers.[/QUOTE] But I mean in terms of looks, athleticism, etc. Have those things changed at all or are they the same as in '05? There were like 15 categories you could rate a guy in I think. GH
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Is this correct? Mat Chain Submission Brawl Power Strong Hard MMA Aerial Flash Mic Charisma Acting Looks Stamina Basics Psychology Safety Consist Selling Intensity Stiffness Resillience Menace Ref Business Booking Respect Announcing If so, it seems to me the place where you would really need to be careful in the ratings is when you get into popularity and specific regions. But all these ratings should be pretty straight forward (though I admit having no idea about doing business/booking/respect ratings. Largely seems like guesswork to me) GH
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[QUOTE=GForce22;162199](though I admit having no idea about doing business/booking/respect ratings. Largely seems like guesswork to me)[/QUOTE] Depends on the region, I think. I can tell you from the perspective of women workers in Japan, some workers would be obvious. I'd expect the same to apply to the North American workers as well, to an extent. Like, a Jaguar Yokota gets A respect right off the bat. Maybe Chigusa Nagayo (who would also have pretty darn high Business skill) and Lioness Asuka as well. A Yumiko Hotta gets an E- at worst or D- at best in booking (she's kinda like Triple H is [B][I]reputed[/I][/B] to be: always looking to put herself over to the detriment of the promotion). The Matsunaga brothers might get B range in business (they founded and ran arguably the most influential joshi promotion of all time in AJW) if not A. There would probably be very few wrestlers who would even have business or booking skill. Plus, depending on the time period you use for their peak, those skills may not have ever been used. A good example of that is Tony Atlas, who didn't start promoting shows until well after his prime (like 20 years after his highest point as a performer). And he'd get a D in booking & business, at best (lot of folks not gettin' paid after working his shows).
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[QUOTE=D16NJD16;162397]But like, what's the fun if every wrestler is great, and at their peak? The fun is building them up.[/QUOTE] At their historical peak. Ted DiBiase was an excellent heel, but he never managed to reach the next level. He can still be built up. Brian Pillman was a gifted talent, but never broke into the upper mid-card. He can still be built up. Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrestled like crap. He can be built up. Just because there's lots of good wrestlers doesn't mean the game loses all purpose. Your fed might have better talent than it would in a mod like DOTT, but so does every other fed. The inherent challenge is still exactly the same.
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[QUOTE=tommytomlin;162408]At their historical peak. Ted DiBiase was an excellent heel, but he never managed to reach the next level. He can still be built up. Brian Pillman was a gifted talent, but never broke into the upper mid-card. He can still be built up. Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrestled like crap. He can be built up. Just because there's lots of good wrestlers doesn't mean the game loses all purpose. Your fed might have better talent than it would in a mod like DOTT, but so does every other fed. The inherent challenge is still exactly the same.[/QUOTE] I guess your right. It would be cool to have a Legends Of Wrestling video game style promotion with a blending of 3 decades worth.
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