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An observation related to overness


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I have tried various games with several datasets (default, converted 1RC, converted T-Zone 05) and I have come to the conclusion that the overness rating could do with an addition - meaning how over workers in your fed are to FANS of your fed. Best example is ROH - the game when converting the data sets their match ratio to 80 %, which means 20 % angles (I noticed if you book way less in fact no one complains so yah) .. anyhow. When playing as ROH actually, and let's say I have a video announcing Chris Daniels vs AJ Styles, or Bryan Danielson vs KENTA, it tanks .. E or below. Cause the game only deals with overall gameworld overness instead of what it should be doing, take into consideration that certain styles of wrestling, for example modern, have a fan base which just isn't comparable to the regular WWE fan (not talking about die hards here btw). But shouldn't it be more along the line of .. that a portion of the crowd, if not everybody in the arena when being at a ROH show, will know full well who the hell these two guys are and cheer on top of their lungs in anticipation of a fine match going to happen? I think what the game could do with is both the general overness AND an overness value for fans of a federation, which, in fact can be quite different. Kinda like Adam made the title prestige fed based and not overall based. I mean, it would prolly need a few more stats, like how established of a fan base you have in a certain area and go from there, but it would surely add a little bit of realism. It is somewhat stupid to hold a show in the same venue 3-4 times in a row, putting around 400 ppl into seats and not having any of these fans remember the guys they saw wrestle last time they were there, cause it implies that you always get a whole new crowd to come to your events. This, in turn of course, could also mean that if you run a niche product such as a modern fed, your general overness would take way longer to go up but at the same time, your very own fans would sing praise to the workers you have on your roster. I think it would add more depth to look into the whole fan/product thing a little more. Thoughts?
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[QUOTE=D-Lyrium;179138]I... I... *sigh* I give up ¬_¬. Remi? Rob? Someone else want to field this one?[/QUOTE] I did already, in Anubis's thread :p Harmor, you might not see this, but what you're actually asking for is for the game to be made easier. Plus, what happens when you get to global and THE WORLD is your fanbase? That would automatically give you a pretty large audience (on TV and PPV) that might just guarantee your success, just because they know who your workers are. The main reason people crap on your angles is because your workers aren't nearly as over as you think they are. Giving them seperate overness in your promotion would just muddle things to the point where you might not be able to resign a Daniels or Styles or Danielson because they're SO over to your fans, they want to be paid accordingly. But if they go up the street to WWE or down the road to IWA: Mid South, they'd take much less money because they're not as known to their fans. So you're actually asking for a failsafe mechanism in the game to ensure that if you use certain workers, you'll get certain ratings. That shouldn't be a given, in my view. Plus, how exactly do you rate these "built-in fanbases"? CZW has a regular fanbase but is its fanbase as loyal or numerous or affluent as WWE's regular fanbase? This is where your promotion's prestige factors in as well. If you're putting on shows that outstrip your overness (as ROH is wont to do), your promotion gains prestige as well as overness. If you have a record of putting on outstanding shows, your promotion's prestige will reflect that. In turn, you'll get workers wanting to work for your promotion more than others (reflected ingame with workers who work for multiple promotions). It's your job as booker to CREATE these things. Besides, what happens if you fill a 300 seat arena with 300 of these 400 fans who mark out for your top stars? Why, you'd get vastly inflated ratings on EVERYTHING you put in front of these fans. Would that not make the game excruciatingly easy? Look at [URL="http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8667"]the bigger picture[/URL].
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Yeah, I can see your point .. I still think the idea I had could work, but you made me realize it would most likely take a whole new game coded around it which ofc is not feasible. Basically the only thing I wanted was to add more depth to the whole fan/product/federation thing, loyal followers, casuals etc ... I'll live without it ^^
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[QUOTE=Harmor;179125]I have tried various games with several datasets (default, converted 1RC, converted T-Zone 05) and I have come to the conclusion that the overness rating could do with an addition - meaning how over workers in your fed are to FANS of your fed. Best example is ROH - the game when converting the data sets their match ratio to 80 %, which means 20 % angles (I noticed if you book way less in fact no one complains so yah) .. anyhow. When playing as ROH actually, and let's say I have a video announcing Chris Daniels vs AJ Styles, or Bryan Danielson vs KENTA, it tanks .. E or below. Cause the game only deals with overall gameworld overness instead of what it should be doing, take into consideration that certain styles of wrestling, for example modern, have a fan base which just isn't comparable to the regular WWE fan (not talking about die hards here btw). But shouldn't it be more along the line of .. that a portion of the crowd, if not everybody in the arena when being at a ROH show, will know full well who the hell these two guys are and cheer on top of their lungs in anticipation of a fine match going to happen? I think what the game could do with is both the general overness AND an overness value for fans of a federation, which, in fact can be quite different. Kinda like Adam made the title prestige fed based and not overall based. I mean, it would prolly need a few more stats, like how established of a fan base you have in a certain area and go from there, but it would surely add a little bit of realism. It is somewhat stupid to hold a show in the same venue 3-4 times in a row, putting around 400 ppl into seats and not having any of these fans remember the guys they saw wrestle last time they were there, cause it implies that you always get a whole new crowd to come to your events. This, in turn of course, could also mean that if you run a niche product such as a modern fed, your general overness would take way longer to go up but at the same time, your very own fans would sing praise to the workers you have on your roster. I think it would add more depth to look into the whole fan/product thing a little more. Thoughts?[/QUOTE] The idea is good, but redundent. The game must measure everything on an equal scale. For ROH, a fed that should be like 'E' over, and 'E' angle is perfectley fine for them. If you got to do it that way, teh whole show would be rated A+ and ROH would grow to WWE's size in no time at all.
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Oh, no doubt, I think the game has many features that can be expanded upon to make it better. I've no doubt that eventually, many of those features will be expanded upon. This game has SO much room to grow, it's nice to see its path of progression play out. But as you said, the game would have to have these things in mind from the moment the design document is written or else weird imbalances crop up. It's a good idea and would add to the game reflecting reality but it's a double-edged sword. Like, do Cornellverse promotions and their fanbases reflect reality? If not, then it shouldn't go in (given the game's being designed around the CV). If so, maybe give it a look.
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In your database for product though, I think for someone like ROH, you might want to add more cult to it then cutting edge... The reasoning behind my thoughts are that the Cult aspect of the game leads one to believe that you do get a more loyal fanbase (although hard to build up higher then cult level). Your fans will love your show's, but it's not for everyone. Example, The WWE relies alot more on the whimsical wrestling fan, then the hardcore. ECW was more of a hardcore (not talking about the hardcore part of the product, but the fanbase). I believe ROH has more hardcore wrestling fans, then most do. Ring of Honor, after all, is the one promotion that WWE does hold in high esteem, and believe's it to be a Great Product.
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[QUOTE=MrCanada;179220]The idea is good, but redundent. The game must measure everything on an equal scale. For ROH, a fed that should be like 'E' over, and 'E' angle is perfectley fine for them. If you got to do it that way, teh whole show would be rated A+ and ROH would grow to WWE's size in no time at all.[/QUOTE] Given that D Lyrium wanted me or Remi to take this question - I can only say that MrCanada summed it up perfectly. The other point that I think Adam made in another thread about ratings for angles, is that the angle itself (a video announcing a match in this case) will never be majorly highly rated because every segment is rated not only on crowd reactions to it (which in your example may have been C+) but also the actual quality of the angle itself, and lets be honest a hype video isn't exactly something that you are going to stick onto a "Best of" DVD is it, so the quality of the segment was probably F, giving you the E+ average.
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[QUOTE=D16NJD16;179243]Says who? I've never, ever heard such thing.[/QUOTE] I think he is assuming since WWE have let a few of their workers (Al Snow, CM Punk) be on ROH cards. I'd disagree, ROH are just a funny little foot note on WWE's epic ass.
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