Tag Team Title Match Frequency?

[XellenceOfXecution]

Now, I know (or have a feeling at least) that this has been discussed before, but for the life of me, I can't find it! I'm hoping someone can point me toward an answer as to why tag team title booking is so infrequent in the game? Some promotions have only one or two tag title matches in six months or a year, and others don't have much more. The six man tag titles are particulary bad as they seem to be defended once a year if you're lucky. Like I say, I have a feeling this has been answered before, so I apologize if that's the case, but someone please explain! ;)

[D. Boons Ghost]

Here's probably the best answer to that, XoX: [QUOTE=Ryland]It's not programmed to work like that. The fact they're a regular team doesn't mean they are primarily booked as a tag team, it means that they simply have an increased chance of being teamed together. Firstly, the game is booked "top down" - i.e. from main event to opening match, based on push. So if the AI wants to book the main event as Main Eventer vs Upper Midcarder, it books a main event wrestler, then books an upper midcard opponent of a different disposition. If Warlord Pain happens to be an upper midcarder of the right disposition, he has as much chance of being booked in that bout as any other upper midcarder - and obviously if he gets booked in that match, he can't be booked lower down, so it doesn't matter where Agony is booked, the Lords Of War won't be teamed. Secondly, tag teams are booked "left to right" - i.e. if a midcard heel tag team is needed, it will book one midcard heel, then find the best tag team partner for him. For the sake of example, let's suppose the game wants a main event heel tag team, and the only main event heels you have are Warlord Pain, Warlord Agony, and Sam Strong. If Pain or Agony are the first person booked in the team, then you'd be almost guaranteed that the Lords Of War would be teamed together. But if Strong happened to be the first one booked, then he'd probably end up with Pain or Agony as his partner - as they're the best remaining choice - which means that the LOW can't be booked lower down the card as one partner is already in action. Thirdly, remember that people can turn, so there's no guarantee that two people you think should be tagging are the same disposition. For example, Bart and Brett Biggz usually end up on different sides after a few months, as one usually ends up heel. Therefore, sometimes you can see tag teams not teamed for a while for a variety of reasons. This is especially true if it's a main event level team, as the chances of it getting to a tag bout without one of the partners already being booked for a high level singles bout is quite small.[/QUOTE] It seems to me that set tag teams are a crap shoot all the way. Using the Lords of War as an example (considering I'd be a fool to use Hawk and Animal ;) ): if the LoW have title belts and are set as a Regular Team, it makes no sense to see Warlord Pain fighting some schmoe, followed by Agony against another schmoe. Why not just book a tag team match against the schmoes? If Pain and Agony are virtual clones of each other, which they are, then the schmoes must match up with each of them - so why not a tag team? Why? Because the AI is greedy, imo. Instead of putting a premium on the title belts and having one tag team match, it sees card filling matchups elsewhere. Because it does that, it messes with the dynamics of that tag team; One guy might win some matches and gain overness, while the other takes a dive. Pretty soon, the two guys will be so far apart, the AI would be silly to even bother. I believe that no matter what, tag team titles should be a premium to the AI. The booking is very good at regularly scheduling singles champions (as long as there is someone on the roster that can match up with them), but tag teams are another story altogether. Again, I can understand the 'whys' and the 'hows' - I just don't like that it has to be that way. We need 30 day stipulations, drad gummit! :)

[XellenceOfXecution]

Thanks D.Boon's! I knew I'd read that somewhere before. Too bad that's something that can't be fixed, like a "thirty day" rule, for example. :(

[Derek B]

A 30 day rule? What about places that only run monthly shows? If they run early in one month then late in the next, they'd have to vacate the belts constantly. Methinks that would be even worse. oh, and I've neverhad problems with tag matches and tag titles. I seem to get more of them than anything else, even when I'm nearing the main event. I held every tag belt in Japan at one point with different partners. I didn't even want to...... Derek B

[XellenceOfXecution]

Yeah, I guess in the original data, thirty days is a little unrealistic. I've been mostly using the DOTT mod where all the promotions have at least two shows a week. The thing is though, I picked up the tag belts in Stampede Wrestling and haven't defended them in three months, and in the history of some other careers, major tag titles have only been defended 3-5 times per year, which is a little low considering most promotions run 150 shows a year. I guess it may not be so noticeable in the original data. I might have to check that out!

[XellenceOfXecution]

I just wanted to add to this while it's still fresh in my mind. I checked out the data from a Rookie to Legend career I've been running for eleven year and came up with the following: [list] [/list] [B][U]Lower Midcard Tag Titles tend to be defended very infrequently.[/U][/B] SWF had the best record with the titles being defended about every two months on average. The worst I saw was the NOTBPW Tag Titles which had been defended by the current champs ONCE in SEVEN YEARS! Most of the other Lower Midcard Tag Titles seemed to be getting defended once a year on average. [U][B]Upper Midcard Tag Titles tend to be defended much more frequently.[/B][/U] Of the few Upper Midcard Tag Titles the average seemed to be once every couple of months. [U][B]Six Man Tag Belts are extremely infrequently defended.[/B][/U] All three of the Lucha promotions have a six man tag title. MPWF's has been vacant for eight years after previously being defended once in two years. OLLIE's has been on the same team for ten years with 7 defenses. SOTBPW's has been on the same team for eleven years with 8 defenses. In my opinion, the six man titles have a serious flaw! And even though some of the small promotions run shows only once a month, I think their titles ought to be defended at least twice a year, if not four times. For a large promotion like NOTBPW to have only had one tag title contest in seven years is inexcusable. And that's about all I've got to say about that.

[smartman]

When you consider how many shows SWF runs though, that's about the same number of shows as the others that are booking the tag titles once per year. Which is pathetic, I agree. This is why I'm not buying TEW 2005. Adam, you are a good programmer and game designer, and I applaud you for making wrestling games for the PC since there aren't that many done well in the last 10 years. However, what you call design choices that we, as the player, just have to live with, I call shortcuts. IMO, your games have too many shortcuts that really hurt the games. The tag belts being horribly booked and booking in general is just a fatal flaw in this game. Also, the opponent AI is terrible and masked by the inability to be DQ'd. Too many times the AI will do nothing but illegal moves for 95% of the match. As for TEW 2004, you know what I didn't like about it, and considering that another one of my friends, who I didn't even know got the game, has the same complaints I did pretty much validates them. My predictions for this post are 100% chance of getting viciously flamed with statements like "Well, why don't you program a game and get it released." and other nonsense like "Adam is the greatest game developer out there so shove it." 100% chance of a severely terse response by Adam. Since he does that to everyone else who questions any decision he makes, that is a lock. 20% chance that someone will agree with me and actually post it. I'll buy BBCF when it comes out, and I'm thoroughly enjoying TPB 2005 so GDS will see plenty of my money without me buying TEW 2005.

[XellenceOfXecution]

Well, for me, even with the tag team flaws and at times questionable AI, I still love WreSpi and play it almost everyday! :D

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=smartman]When you consider how many shows SWF runs though, that's about the same number of shows as the others that are booking the tag titles once per year. Which is pathetic, I agree. This is why I'm not buying TEW 2005. Adam, you are a good programmer and game designer, and I applaud you for making wrestling games for the PC since there aren't that many done well in the last 10 years. However, what you call design choices that we, as the player, just have to live with, I call shortcuts. IMO, your games have too many shortcuts that really hurt the games. The tag belts being horribly booked and booking in general is just a fatal flaw in this game. Also, the opponent AI is terrible and masked by the inability to be DQ'd. Too many times the AI will do nothing but illegal moves for 95% of the match. As for TEW 2004, you know what I didn't like about it, and considering that another one of my friends, who I didn't even know got the game, has the same complaints I did pretty much validates them. My predictions for this post are 100% chance of getting viciously flamed with statements like "Well, why don't you program a game and get it released." and other nonsense like "Adam is the greatest game developer out there so shove it." 100% chance of a severely terse response by Adam. Since he does that to everyone else who questions any decision he makes, that is a lock. 20% chance that someone will agree with me and actually post it. I'll buy BBCF when it comes out, and I'm thoroughly enjoying TPB 2005 so GDS will see plenty of my money without me buying TEW 2005.[/QUOTE] Not buying TEW2005 is your choice, although I would have liked you to have at least played the trial before you completely dismissed it. Clearly you like wrestling games or you wouldn't have played the previous two, so to not even take a look and see if I'd done drastic improvements to the AI, even when it's a free trial, is baffling to me.