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Recruiting Frustration


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I've only tried a couple of careers but I'm becoming very frustrated with recruiting. Some of the frustration is the interface but most of it is the feeling that I have no input into the process. I've played with a nunber of schools with similar Above Average Prestigue (Georgia Tech, Penn State, Pittsburgh, and West Virginia). When recruiting starts I scout almost everyone who shows green interest or above and at least 3 stars. On some players that I know I'd like I start at least some recruiting in the first week. I do the visits. In week 2 I start heavy recruiting and offering scholarships. Generally in about week 3 I'll start adding specific pitches based on my scouting emails. At this point the guys that I like are at max recruiting, have pitches made, have visited if possible and are generally at 9's and 10's for interest. Many are even listed as The One (I have forgotten the exact wording) in my scout's email. As far as I know I can not do anything more to help the process. So I'm stuck sitting and clicking advance. Is it just me or is there really nothing I can do to effect recruiting of a specific player after about the 2nd or 3rd week? I'm sure that some of this is just a mental illusion but it feels like I have loads of prospects that every in game indicator says should commit to me but then I wait week after week with no commitments and watch most of them dribble away to other schools. Guys who should get to play right away spend weeks sitting at 10 interest, The One, maximum recruiting money, a waiting scholarship and a correct pitch only to sign late with a less prestigious school. There are also two interface problems. For scouting I have to open up each possible player and click scout plus the confirmation and close the player card. In general I'd like to scout 30+ players during the first week (if I have the money I like to scout 50 or so). 4 clicks per player is a lot when it seems the action screen could have had a Scout button. The second problem, why is there no way to have the scouting email information available on the player card screen? I have to use a pad of paper to record the scouts suggested pitches.
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Just a quick follow up to forstall any mistaken conclusions. I love the game. I don't even think that the recruiting is a poor model of real recruiting. The frustration is really connected with the choice of words and numbers that, as far as I can tell, are giving me a false sense of the interest of many recruits.
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if you don't start offering scholarships and physically recruiting (paying the money on the drop down) guys until a few weeks into the process that will explain your lack of success. there is no pre-season for the recruiting, scout/offer/recruit from the first week on. also, check your emails, if you are "top one" there is a good chance you will land him if he commits the next week, otherwise, you probably won't get him if he commits next week.
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I can give you one piece of good advice. Don't even bother trying to recruit good running backs or good run blocking linemen because it's useless. Get you some pass blockers, a nice gun-slingin QB, 3-4 great wideouts and sling that baby 50 times a game. There have been many and i do mean MANY posts about the running game so i guess i'm beating a dead horse here, but it's only because i wanna believe i'm doing something wrong rather than a flaw in the engine. But i can't be doing something wrong EVERY time i call a run play. It can't be the wrong time to call a run EVERY time i call one. Even an average team is not gonna miss a block 9 out of 10 running plays. So at this point i'm giving up on the run game which in turn decreases my fun factor in this game quite a bit. You'll get the few who come out of the woodwork with " i have no problem running the ball" yet they never devulge their little secrets because mixing the playcalling is so not the answer. I'd like to see one of u run guru's post some of your gamelogs so the rest of us can get some insight. Arlie says lesser talented teams are possibly gameplanning to stop your run and the A.I. adjusts to your playcalling. Adjusts should be replaced by PREDICTS. I just called a play in a game that i hadn't called ALL season and somehow the "defense anticipated the play" (insert barf here). Even if a team gameplans to stop it should that mean it automatically is gonna work? I mean really. If this was more or less coded into the game to increase difficulty, then fine, but admit it and stop giving that false sense of hope to those of us who are not running the upper echelon programs and have 4 or 5 green and blue starters on the O-line.
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I guess I don't understand the running game issue. I've run a smash mouth offense for 10 years now in my solo career and have had a lot of success. I've won a couple of NTs and even had a few guys average 6 YPC for a season with over 2000 yards for the year.
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One thing to consider is what scouting service you are using and how good your coaches are at scouting. Maybe you are getting incorrect interest readings because of poor recruiting services or coaches. It's not only you who has this problem and not only with big schools. I've got a career with Boise St. Our prestige is generally between 50-55. Just this last year I had a JR tailback who finished 2nd in both the Heisman and Doak Walker award, and I have a history of running the ball and having good rushing stats. Only one year have I failed to have a back with less than 1,200 yds and that was this tailback's freshman year when he split time with a Senior. My stud leaves early and because of this I have the nation's top backs very interested in my school. 5 backs in the top 100 and another 5 in the top 300 all have 9 or 10 interest in my school. Each week I have two or three of them maxed out, and each week one after another signs with another school. By the end of recruiting, none of the 10 backs who were so interested signed with me. I end up with a back in the 500s who had high interest the whole time and a back in the 900s who signed with only 8 interest. It's frustrating to watch them keep signing with other teams, especially when they all seem to be going to the same teams! I mean I can understand USC getting 2 backs in the top 100, because they have the highest prestige in my career, but how does Arizona State end up with 2 backs from the top 100 and another 4 star back in the top 300?! For the most part it is very realistic and that is what makes it so fun and frustrating at the same time. I would take this over NCAA's recruiting any day. P.S. - I simulate or watch the games, that is why my running backs do so well. It seems that even watching the game, there are many 1 yd or negative runs, but the computer usually picks a few plays that bust for big gains. And when simulating, the running engine works fine.
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Guest Nukester
[QUOTE=hitmanwa;182931]I guess I don't understand the running game issue. I've run a smash mouth offense for 10 years now in my solo career and have had a lot of success. I've won a couple of NTs and even had a few guys average 6 YPC for a season with over 2000 yards for the year.[/QUOTE] Ive had great success with the running game also. Never a problem, except I thought FB's were hard too gain ground with, until I drafted a good one, and he was actually my main ball carrier for the season. He ended up with 225 carries for 1322 yards (120.2 YPG) for me (Army w/ 1989 mod). I sim all of my games, so maybe thats the issue
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[QUOTE=Nukester;182940]Ive had great success with the running game also. Never a problem, except I thought FB's were hard too gain ground with, until I drafted a good one, and he was actually my main ball carrier for the season. He ended up with 225 carries for 1322 yards (120.2 YPG) for me (Army w/ 1989 mod). I sim all of my games, so maybe thats the issue[/QUOTE] Yup. Played games are waaaaay different.
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I signed a couple of expensive coaches in my first off-season, so in the 2nd season I was forced to use the cheapest scouting service. According to them, just about every recruit in the nation had yellow for interest towards me. In my current, third season, I'm back with the most expensive guys and I'm again getting the entire scale of interest from recruits. About the running game: a good running back is essential (and don't forget endurance -- even the most awesome runner is of little use if he's always winded after 2 downs). Mix inside and outside runs with surprise passes every now and then, and you can gain a lot of yardage on the ground; power runs can work extremely well if you have a good blocking FB. My only concern is goal-line running; I haven't figured out a way to reliably run the ball in from the 1-yard line even against defenses who otherwise let me run almost at will.
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I ran 30 years of a career with Wake Forest quick-simming and playing out some seasons and only had 4 1,000 yard rushers. When i quick-sim they maybe end the season with a ypc over 3.5. When i play the games out-forget about it. If i schedule 3 non-conference patsies we're fine for those three games. After that it's all downhill. I mix inside and outside. Call runs in passing situations. Run and pass from the same formations. Nothing works. There's only so much "mixing" that can be done with the number of plays on hand. Whatever i do at the end of the game the stats usually read something like 34 carries for 50 yards with the leading rusher something like 19 carries for 47 yds. This is every game. I even started a brand new career with Colorado who starts out with pretty good prestige of 65 and a nice roster and nothing has changed.
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I am at CSU currently with a 79 rated RB (a 5 star top 50 recruit transfer we were lucky to land.) Our offensive line is led by a 4.0 star OG and several 3.5's. Our FB is quite poor 1.5 stars. We are only at 51 prestige, and our QB isn't that good either. In spite of this our RB has run for 1560 yards (4.8 YPC) through 11 games. (I coach all the games personally.) The key is using lots of outside runs, using formations where you have a benefit, and giving your back a breather. My RB2 (3.5 star) averages 4.5 YPC and comes in for short-yardage/third down since he is a bruiser back. This way, my star RB can get a break. Also if he gets tired, I will pull out a surprise (usually a spread pass screen on a first down) to get him off the field for a play. But yes, if your offense is vertical, you have a poor offensive line and an easilly fatigued running back, give it up. Also, try running on 3rd down or 2nd and longs. Catching the D by surprise works well--if you only run on 1st-10, and 3rd-2, the D will catch on fast.
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[url]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showpost.php?p=161012&postcount=28[/url] i called every play those seasons in-game and there is still no problem with game engine regarding run plays. Pay attention to the type of run plays you call. If you have a speed back "outside runner", sending him on power inside runs probably isn't the best choice. Also pay attention to the situation. Running a slow developing play like a draw or counter on 3rd and 1 isn't the best plan either. [URL="http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?6915e3d44c.jpg"]here's an example of a problem with run plays and a game engine[/URL]
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I would say i'm about a 60% passer on first down and i usually stay away from running on 3rd and short and inside the 10. In my new Colorado career i have two good backs. Ben Howry 5-8, 201lbs, a run rating of 78, speed 69 and endurance of 81. He's labeled a Third down back. His backup is Jim Pearson 5-10, 187lbs, a run rating of 82, speed 71 and endurance of 77. Also labeled a Third down back. I was of the same thinking that outside runs would best utilize their skills and when i run inside i usually call a "straight" play and an occasional counter so i don't know what gives
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We started this thread complaining about not getting recruits who had 10 interest in our programs. I just signed a player with 2 interest in my team. I signed QB early and his interest dropped to 2 when that happened, but I kept recruiting him and offering him a scholorship b/c I want to move him to RB. Pretty crazy. [url]http://udlb58.zoto.com/img/original/9f2cf5edd83d9801e25204f6ad49bb5e-.jpg[/url]
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I'm new to the game and I noticed this too. There were a lot of players with 10 interest and thed only one I got was the one in th email who's lifelong dream it was to attend and he had a whopping potential of 1.5. The people I got were more in the 7-8 range. Part of it may be related to other realistic things. For example, if another school offered them a scholarship and you didn't, or if someone is recruiting them much harder, or if you are their 2nd choice and they are waiting to hear from the first choice. As for the running game, at this point I'm ust simming and trying to get the recruiting under my belt (I screwed up and left next to nothing in my budget the 1st season, went out and got 2 good assistants, minimized my recruiting (i.e. not give visists much since the people that wanted them weren't any godd) lowered my scouting stuff to the min (i.e. 15000 each region, 10,000 each position, cheapest recruiting service) and still ended up with -60,000. So the next off season should be fun. That said I noticed two things.... 1, my whole team changed all of the sudden. Nobody transfered or left early, and I don't see and of the previous year's players including my 2 good Jr HBs that carried my team. Second a lot of the HBNs I scouted (and thi was when I had the best service) have speed in the 30-50 range. Some are rated highly too (i.e. top 100) What gives? how can they seriously be that slow and play college ball? maybe those with running problems just have slow backs
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[QUOTE=udlb58;183577]We started this thread complaining about not getting recruits who had 10 interest in our programs. I just signed a player with 2 interest in my team. I signed QB early and his interest dropped to 2 when that happened, but I kept recruiting him and offering him a scholorship b/c I want to move him to RB. Pretty crazy. [url]http://udlb58.zoto.com/img/original/9f2cf5edd83d9801e25204f6ad49bb5e-.jpg[/url][/QUOTE] yea sometimes that happens if you keep after a guy. most of the time it's a waste of time though.
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[QUOTE=C-Bailey24;183525]I would say i'm about a 60% passer on first down and i usually stay away from running on 3rd and short and inside the 10. In my new Colorado career i have two good backs. Ben Howry 5-8, 201lbs, a run rating of 78, speed 69 and endurance of 81. He's labeled a Third down back. His backup is Jim Pearson 5-10, 187lbs, a run rating of 82, speed 71 and endurance of 77. Also labeled a Third down back. I was of the same thinking that outside runs would best utilize their skills and when i run inside i usually call a "straight" play and an occasional counter so i don't know what gives[/QUOTE] i think third down backs are generally good receiving backs, they can still run it though. strength helps inside running too i think.
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[QUOTE=Deltoidius;183610]yea sometimes that happens if you keep after a guy. most of the time it's a waste of time though.[/QUOTE] I know, you can't see it there, but his running ability was projected in the high 90s, and he has good speed, so I really wanted him so he could play HB since I can't get any good high school tailbacks. I think a lot of good backs are labeled 3rd down backs because their hands are so good.
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A lot of the time you can get 3-star kids who have low interest in your school in the late recruiting weeks. If you go and look through them, there will be a few who have no current offers from anyone; I suspect they were recruited by someone or other earlier but the school just gave up on them. If you're lucky, you'll be the only one offering them a free ride through college. It takes some time to go through all the recruits, but sometimes it pays off handsomely (especially if you're coaching a lesser program).
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I decided to check out the running game issue myself and with a 1.5 star back at akron I got 150-200+ yds in each of my 1st three games I played (not simmed) and only have one man on the OL above 1.0 Not sure what the issue is with those who can't run, maybe its the teams you're playing
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Level of competition could be a factor because my first dynasty was with Wake Forest and now with Colorado. So of course the talent level is always high in those conferences, but at the same time the backs and linemen i'm recruiting are certainly no slouches. They should be able to compete and not get dominated and overmatched every game. I've never played in conferences like CUSA or maybe the WAC where the talent is a notch down. I'd be interested to hear if anyone who doesn't have trouble running the ball is playing in one of the major conferences ..
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[QUOTE=MadMarcus;182768]I've only tried a couple of careers but I'm becoming very frustrated with recruiting. Some of the frustration is the interface but most of it is the feeling that I have no input into the process.[/quote] You do, you just need to understand how the system works [QUOTE=MadMarcus;182768]I've played with a nunber of schools with similar Above Average Prestigue (Georgia Tech, Penn State, Pittsburgh, and West Virginia). When recruiting starts I scout almost everyone who shows green interest or above and at least 3 stars. On some players that I know I'd like I start at least some recruiting in the first week. I do the visits. In week 2 I start heavy recruiting and offering scholarships. Generally in about week 3 I'll start adding specific pitches based on my scouting emails. At this point the guys that I like are at max recruiting, have pitches made, have visited if possible and are generally at 9's and 10's for interest. Many are even listed as The One (I have forgotten the exact wording) in my scout's email. As far as I know I can not do anything more to help the process. So I'm stuck sitting and clicking advance. [/quote] Ok, I see 3 problems with this. First, players are much more impressed if you start the recruiting pitch on the first week Second, players are much more impressed if you offer a scholarship the first week Third, you are trying to recruit way to many players. 1) the game designer mentioned that you get a huge bonus if you get the best pitch and that the bonus is higher if it comes in the first week. This does mean guessing the pitch, but sometimes you can get an idea by a recruits top 10 schools. If they are all in/near his home state Location is often a good choice. If they are all high prestige, it might be Team Prestige. 2) Rather than try to chase all the 3 star and above recruits. Look at what positions you need to fill and what kind of player you want. Speed, Possession or Balanced wR, West Coast, Drop Back, Mobile or Balanced QB, etc. Then look for the 2-3 recruits with high interest that also fit your style of play. If you are running pure Smash Mouth, you might be more interested in that blocking FB than a higher interest receiving FB. You need to recruit for who will best fit. The players do seem to react to this. 3) Players react to who you've already signed. If you sign a 3 star QB and have a good sophomore and senior on your roster that 5 star you really want might decide to go to a lower prestige school. Decide who you want on your team and offer them the scholarships. Your second choice players should receive recruiting pitches, but don't offer scholarships unless your first choices signed elsewhere. [QUOTE=MadMarcus;182768]Is it just me or is there really nothing I can do to effect recruiting of a specific player after about the 2nd or 3rd week? I'm sure that some of this is just a mental illusion but it feels like I have loads of prospects that every in game indicator says should commit to me but then I wait week after week with no commitments and watch most of them dribble away to other schools. Guys who should get to play right away spend weeks sitting at 10 interest, The One, maximum recruiting money, a waiting scholarship and a correct pitch only to sign late with a less prestigious school. [/quote] After the first couple of weeks, unless you decide to stop recruiting someone there isn't much. You can never change a pitch, and players sign when they sign. I usually have 2-3 weeks where I do nothing but set up my 5 visits for the week because no one that I'm currently recruiting signed with anyone. [QUOTE=MadMarcus;182768]There are also two interface problems. For scouting I have to open up each possible player and click scout plus the confirmation and close the player card. In general I'd like to scout 30+ players during the first week (if I have the money I like to scout 50 or so). 4 clicks per player is a lot when it seems the action screen could have had a Scout button. The second problem, why is there no way to have the scouting email information available on the player card screen? I have to use a pad of paper to record the scouts suggested pitches.[/QUOTE] Scouting 50? Wow. If I have 18 scholarships available I might scout 10 players or so. If he's in my top 10 players I don't have time to wait and will offer a scholarship and guess the pitch in week one of the recruiting season. As for the scouting e-mail. That is a good idea, although the scouting e-mail itself is new and was added with the most recent update.
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2 questions. 1) If you only recruit say 10 players and only get 1 of them, will the computer still have some extras coming your way or are you screwed with just the guy you recuited and maybe the email guy? 2)I've nticed that when I scout the sales pitches suggested in email often don't match the ones when I click on the player. which should I follow?
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