Still confused about bookings after reading threads

[Guest Nukester]

Ive read quite a bit about how matches are booked (more so about tag team matches though), but I am still seeing some very strange single match bookings going on where many times a babyface will fight another babyface, or a babyface will team with two heels in a 3 man tag match. This is going strictly by the DOTT scenario and not the default data. For instance, last night Chief Jay Strongbow beat Jules Strongbow in a match for the WWF. Both are lsited as babyfaces (neither had turned), and there had to be plenty of heels for one of them to fight (as the WWF roster is pretty large). Also on a different card, Pedro Morales teamed with two heels (Masked Susperstar and Orndorff maybe ?) also in the WWF. I mentioned both of these from the WWF, but Ive seem this happen on many occasions. Why would the game be booking like this ? Could it have something to do with the scenerio itself, or does this happen with the default data also ? Slight annoyance, but enough for me to wonder why......

[D. Boons Ghost]

It happens with the game itself. Again - only Mr. Ryland can answer for sure, but I believe it all boils down to disposition skills combined with wrestling styles. Chief Jay (Sports Entertainer) is Medium as both face and heel, whereas Jules (Sports Entertainer) is Good/Weak. While I probably should have matched them up perfectly, that tosses out Chief Jay's ever being a heel (which Scarpa was at various points). So... the AI sees these two undercarders that match up (both Sports Entertainers) and pairs them up, regardless. If you look at the Morales pairings, though... I just don't know. Morales is Good/Weak, Orndorff is Medium/Good, and Superstar is Good/Good in disposition skills; the AI sees the pairing fit, despite the fact it often never makes sense. No offense to the creator behind this often-times brilliant game, but... You'd have to read Ryland's description of the booking logic to try and wrap your head around it - but it's not at all pleasant, at least for 'historic/modern day' updaters. Because the AI books up and down and sideways, it twists its rosters on a daily basis, just to fill up that card with the talent at hand. Tag Team pairings, worker disposition, disposition dependent movesets - it all gets tossed out the window the second the AI begins to book that card. You'll never notice this playing the original data, as you haven't preconceived notions - but it does happen there, as well. The first time I noticed something was weird was when playing as Heel Bockwinkel vs. Face Hogan. Hogan began using his heel moveset, despite the fact he was listed going in and coming out of the match as face. I knew he was using the heel set because I made both sets and knew what he should be doing. Stumped, I go and check the original data and find that everyone has the same moveset, regardless of disposition. To make a long story no-so-short, I believe that the AI - every part of it - is basically meaningless. The only thing that 'matters', that is stationary in the gameworld is the Player. The AI, imo, doesn't look at its roster and say to itself, 'I've got 10 heels and 10 faces'. Instead, it only sees one - whichever side you are on. Everyone else is fodder.

[Guest Nukester]

Here are the first months worth of matches for Pedro Morales: - Big J. Studd/Sika/Afa beat Morales/Orndorff/George Steele - Superstar Graham/Snuka/Masked Superstar/Backlund beat Orndorff/Afa/Morales/Putski - Morales beat C.J. Strongbow - Orndorff/Morales beat Studd/Tito Santana - Morales beat Tony Garea - Ventura/Orndorff/Steele/Studd beat Morales/Putski/Soulman/SD Jones - Morales beat the Iron Sheik And for Chief Jay Strongbow: - Strongbow/Iron Sheik beat Jules Strongbow/Tony Atlas - Strongbow beat Tony Atlas - Jules Strongbow beat Chief Jay Strongbow - Morales beat CJS - Atlas beat CJS - Putski/Rocky Johnson/Atlas beat CJS/Rene Goulet/Tiger Chung Lee - CJS beat Tony Garea - Johnson/Atlas beat CJS/Tiger Chung Lee - Afa beat CJS Not many of these make sense to me, as there are faces and heels mixed every which way. The booking should at least be a basic face vs heel first, then go down the line. Makes even getting into a fantasy setting kind of hard

[Adam Ryland]

There is a set logic behind it, which can be thrown off by various factors. They are simply more noticeable in real world data because you have preconcieved notions of who should do what. Balancing Faces and Heels Step 1: Each worker is assigned to a position on the card based on his overness. Step 2: The AI tries to balance out the number of faces and heels by turning people. The turns are based on their skill in each role, when their last turn was, etc. Tag team pairings are ignored out of necessity, as if you had a lot of teams in the database it would be almost impossible to turn anyone without making a chain reaction of other turns that would be needed. Booking The Cards Step 1: Book from the top down Step 2: Each match is assigned a level, i.e. Main Eventer vs Upper Midcarder, etc, based on how high up the card is Step 3: Pick Side#1 based on the level. So if it's looking for a Main Eventer, it will pick that level of worker, ignoring disposition. The selection is mainly random, although takes into account titles, last worked, etc Step 4: Pick Side#2 based on the level assigned in step 2, plus trying to get the opposite disposition to the person in Side#1 Step 5: Repeat for each match Booking Different Levels If the AI looks for a Main Eventer Heel and cannot find him, it will either go down the card looking for the highest level of heel available, or if that isn't viable, go for a face instead. You will generally only end up getting face vs face or heel vs heel matches if there was no face vs heel match available to be booked. Booking Tag Teams Once the first person in the side is picked, the second person is booking dependent on him. If he is a tag champ, his partner (if available) is automatically picked. Otherwise it will depend on levels. Ideally he will get his normal tag partner, unless they're opposite dispositions, in which case the AI will try for someone of the same level with the same disposition. You would only end up with a face and heel teaming as a last resort if there was nothing else available. Booking Six Man Six man teams are primarily booked to be people at the same level and disposition (tag teams aren't looked at for six man teams). You'd end up with mixed disposition teams if there was a lack of people with the same disposition. In regards to DBG's comment about move sets not following disposition, I haven't been able to replicate that experience at all, it's working fine on my copy. I'll look into it further.

[D. Boons Ghost]

Probably the best thing to do with real world updates is to 'cut and dry it'. Instead of making Hogan Good at both face and heel, for example, it would be best to dub him as his ideal (face). That way, the AI will be booking the guys as such most times. I'll go through and try to better align people for the next update. The only bad thing about that is that everything would be static, for the most part. Using Hogan as an example again - Hogan would [I]always[/I] be the good guy. I'm not sure I dig that concept too much. The way I try to look at it (and I recommend others playing real world data to do the same): after the first week of operation, preconceived notions go out the window. That isn't meant to excuse foolish errors made by gameworld makers (*cough* Chief Jay as a possible heel *cough*), but the maker can only do so much. If you follow the first week of the game, you'll notice that many (not all) of the matchups do make sense. Once the rosters start changing and workers fluctuate in their overness, though, the world takes on a life of its own.

[Guest Nukester]

I think thats the way Im leaning right now. Make everyone pretty much static as either face or heel, then using some kind of house rules, every now and then randomly turn a few wrestlers within the different organizations. Thanks for the info guys.

[Guest Nukester]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland] Booking Six Man Six man teams are primarily booked to be people at the same level and disposition (tag teams aren't looked at for six man teams). You'd end up with mixed disposition teams if there was a lack of people with the same disposition.[/QUOTE] So this matchup: - Big J. Studd/Sika/Afa beat Morales/Orndorff/George Steele came about because there were no others faces that were the same level as Studd/Sika/Afa and Morales to team with Morales, so it picked two heels of the same level to partner with him instead (Morales has a different disposition than Ordorff and Steele) ? In other words, Studd the heel was picked first, teamed with two other heels of the same level, matched against face Morales, but because there were no other faces of the level of the first four wrestlers, it chose heels instead ?

[Adam Ryland]

I can't really answer that as I don't know who the faces and heels were at that point in your game world. Studd would have been the first person picked in the team though, yes, as they are always listed in the order they were selected (although obviously you can't tell which team was picked first as the winner is first).