Stats?

[NickC13573]

Adam, I dont know if you already figured this out but what stats are there going to be? I know this seems to be a stupid question but I would really like to know. I think I got a couple, like guard and guard escape.

[GDE71]

Striking Stand-Up Take-down/Grappling Submission Defense/Guard Power Stamina Toughness Defense/Sprawl Hand-Speed Some possible stats.

[Guest loves2spooge]

Maybe stats for left and right hands and feet it would be good to have some fighters in the game that can end it with one punch or kick

[D16NJD16]

Durability hopefully.

[mad5226]

And reversals

[BuddyGarner]

Reach Height Walking Weight Fighting Weight Bodyfat %

[BlizzardVeers]

My suggestions! Not that they matter. [B][U]Height[/U][/B] This should be obvious what this is, but Height should affect certain stats like strength and speed. [B][U]Weight[/U][/B] This should technically be limited to how it is in TEW I think. It could be expanded on in a 'number' system, but that would be a lot of work, I think? Flyweight, Lightweight, Welterweight, Middleweight, Light Heavyweight, Heavyweight, Super Heavyweight. [B][U]Arm Reach[/U][/B] This is a fairly important stat in a fight, but it's not really necessary in the sim itself. If you were going to add it, it should of course add or subtract to the ability to throw punches. [B][U]Leg Reach[/U][/B] Same as the Arm Reach. [B][U]Age[/U][/B] This should play a big part in it, really. Unless you're Randy Couture. o.O [B][U]Experience[/U][/B] This should have a huge part in the game as well, a more experienced fighter can make use of only having mediocre skills against a more skilled younger less experienced opponent after all. Experience might be the difference between and upset and a big win. [B][U]Styles[/U][/B] Rather then say having a fighter have stats in certain skills like Takedown and Striking, I say have the fighter have stats in styles. Jiu-Jitsu, Wrestling, Boxing, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Combat Sambo, Judo, Karate and the like. But, if you're going to do it like TEW then.. [B][U]Stats[/U][/B] [B][U]Punching[/U][/B] Punching skills, this isn't necessarily 'boxing' but it is punching, you can know how to punch and not know how to box. And this should also be the ability to defend and offesively use this stat. [B][U]Technical Punching[/U][/B] This is pretty much the 'boxing' stat. You can probably get away with just naming it 'Boxing'. But it can also expand itself into palm strikes (illegal), elbows, spinning backfists and the like. And this should also be the ability to defend and offesively use this stat. [B][U]Kicking[/U][/B] Anyone can throw a kick, it's not a hard thing to do. This is just the ability to throw a kick. And this should also be the ability to defend and offesively use this stat. [B][U]Technical Kicking[/U][/B] This is usually reserved for people like Mirko Crocop or Andy Hugs who's kicks are just utterly amazing. This might be called the kickboxing stat, but it would likely also apply to Muay Thai and the efficiency of the knees. And this should also be the ability to defend and offesively use this stat. [B][U]Takedowns[/U][/B] In my opnion, the takedown stat shouldn't equate to the ability to -defend- it. Mirko Crocop has a great sprawl, but he has a crap takedown in reality. Basically what this is the ability to take the fight to the ground, usually a Judo Practicioner or a Wrestler's secret weapon! [B][U]Sprawl[/U][/B] The ability to defend a take down and sprawl out, keeping someone from taking you to the ground. GSP has an excellent sprawl, as does Fedor, and pretty much every top striker in the game - aside from Sylvia .. though he doesn't count anymore. [B][U]Clinching[/U][/B] Seen Anderson Silva dominate Rich Franklin in the clinch? That's what it's all about. But this should be defense and offense, usually fighters that can properly fight offensively in the clinch know how to defend it. [B][U]Heart[/U][/B] The fighter's will to fight, this should really influence several other things in fight. Like if the fighter is getting their ass kicked, if they'll have the heart to stick it out and look for a way to win or if they'll just give up. [B][U]Submissions[/U][/B] Ever watched Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira? Maybe you should. He is the definition of Submission Master, simply put. This stat should handle locking on submissions and defending against them. [B][U]Technical Expertise[/U][/B] This should likely get another name, and possibly be a 'hidden' stat but it would likely determine whether someone was capable of pulling off say .. a flying armbar or a rolling kimura. [B][U]Ground Striking[/U][/B] Fedor Emelianenko is the very definition of this particular stat. A ground striker is also known as a Ground and Pounder, they take the opponent to the mat and just beat them senseless. [B][U]Ground Positioning[/U][/B] This should be a defense against ground striking, basically, the ability to move yourself even if you're controlled on the mat. It should also handle the fighter getting up from the ground. [B][U]Conditioning[/U][/B] How long can a fighter last? This stat determines cardio, it could also just be 'Stamina'. [B][U]Physical Toughness[/U][/B] Can the fighter take a beating? That would be what this stat determines. Does he have a hard head like Chris Leben, or is he prone to being KO'd in the first couple seconds? [B][U]Physical Strength[/U][/B] This would be the determining factor for a lot of stats, I think. The ability to take someone down, to hit them hard, to defend against their submissions .. to hold them into the submission. Basically this might be the most important stat I've mentioned. [B][U]Physical Speed[/U][/B] This is probably the second most important stat. It simply determines the fighter's speed, punching speed, kicking speed, ability to shoot in, ability to sprawl .. everything might rest on that split second! [B][U]Demeanor[/U][/B] Demeanor might decide how intimidating a fighter is, and might scare another fighter before the fight. Or the demeanor might make the fighter look far less imposing then he really is and have another affect on the fight entirely. [B][U]Mental[/U][/B] I can't think of a good name for what this stat would be, but it would basically control the fighter's mental state. If the fighter is easily flustered, then when he starts throwing punches and the guy doesn't go down he'll start getting stupid. However, if he's not easily flustered, he'll move onto another area that he's strong in that he thinks will work, and won't get bothered so quickly by it not working. Though if he's not smart enough, he might keep trying the same game plan over and over .. even though it's not working hoping that it eventually will. (I.E. Mark Coleman vs Fedor Emelianenko) [B][U]Respect[/U][/B] This stat is completely different from the respect stat in TEW, at least I think it should be. This shouldn't be how much respect a fighter has earned, because a fighter should -always- be respected. This should play into the fighters demeanor and depending on the level of respect he has for other fighters as to whether he should be a disrespectful fighter (Cheating), or be an ******* outside of the ring. (Tito Ortiz is a huge example.) [B][U]Aggressiveness[/U][/B] This should be a fairly straight forward stat. If you want the best example of a fighter with the aggressiveness of a wild animal, look up a top form Wanderlei Silva, or Matt Hughes. This stat determines how aggressive a fighter will be in trying to hurt their opponent, not just looking for the win, they're looking to hurt someone and hurt them bad, because they enjoy it. This should also effect whether a fighter looks for a KO instantly, or looks to win by jabathon. [B][U]Counter Style[/U][/B] Some fighters make a living off of waiting for the enemy to make a mistake. This is the art of countering your opponents moves, and waiting for them to make the mistake of coming for you when you. If you need good examples of counter fighting, look up Chuck Liddell, or Mirko Crocop versus Wanderlei Silva. A fighter with a high counter will look simply to counter his opponent, while a low counter will mean they won't attempt to counter punch much and will likely be aggressive or passive based on whether their aggresiveness is high or low. There are a lot of other factors that play into a fight other then this too, but MMA is a lot more indepth then just two guys going out there and slugging. I'm sure I can think of more stats, but I'm also sure you guys will think of more then what I just came up with.

[Adam Ryland]

Thanks BlizzardVeers, excellent post.

[toddthebod]

I think that another stat that should go into the game would be training. Whether the fighter trains easy, moderate, hard, and extreme. Some fighters will train harder for bigger fights and don't train as hard for smaller fighter. Some people completely blow their shot (Travis Lutter). This could all factor into a momentum meter, attitude, or something along those lines. I think this would be an excellent idea and thanks to Adam for making this game!

[Goldenskillz]

Another interesting stat (altho it would prop be better used the same way personality is in TEW) is how they react to seeing their own blood. Some people may see that they are bleeding and think well im gonna lose on points unless i try and just go all out to knock their opponent out. Others may see blood and think geez im bleeding and their only concern would be protecting themselves from further injury. Im sure their is alot more possible reactions not only to this but to also seeing the opponents blood this is just an idea tho.

[ACCBiggz]

[QUOTE=BlizzardVeers;215626][B][U]Stats[/U][/B] [B][U]Punching[/U][/B] Punching skills, this isn't necessarily 'boxing' but it is punching, you can know how to punch and not know how to box. And this should also be the ability to defend and offesively use this stat. [B][U]Technical Punching[/U][/B] This is pretty much the 'boxing' stat. You can probably get away with just naming it 'Boxing'. But it can also expand itself into palm strikes (illegal), elbows, spinning backfists and the like. And this should also be the ability to defend and offesively use this stat. [B][U]Kicking[/U][/B] Anyone can throw a kick, it's not a hard thing to do. This is just the ability to throw a kick. And this should also be the ability to defend and offesively use this stat. [B][U]Technical Kicking[/U][/B] This is usually reserved for people like Mirko Crocop or Andy Hugs who's kicks are just utterly amazing. This might be called the kickboxing stat, but it would likely also apply to Muay Thai and the efficiency of the knees. And this should also be the ability to defend and offesively use this stat.[/QUOTE] To me the "Punching" "Technical Punching", etc stats seem like its going a bit overboard. I think it'd be better to break down the stats by style. Boxing, Muai Thai, Jiu-Jitsu, etc. etc., as opposed to "Punching and Kicking". I think it would be better to break it down into the styles even with Wrestling and other styles that are used. [QUOTE][B][U]Arm Reach[/U][/B] This is a fairly important stat in a fight, but it's not really necessary in the sim itself. If you were going to add it, it should of course add or subtract to the ability to throw punches. [B][U]Leg Reach[/U][/B] Same as the Arm Reach.[/QUOTE] I think this can factor in with height. Because to the elite fighters this isn't as big of a stat as most make it out to be. It really is all about the style. Monson/Sylvia & Couture/Sylvia would show how the styles were different and training wise. Height is not always the factor in reach, but it usually is the top reason for a longer reach. [QUOTE][B][U]Respect[/U][/B] This stat is completely different from the respect stat in TEW, at least I think it should be. This shouldn't be how much respect a fighter has earned, because a fighter should -always- be respected. This should play into the fighters demeanor and depending on the level of respect he has for other fighters as to whether he should be a disrespectful fighter (Cheating), or be an ******* outside of the ring. (Tito Ortiz is a huge example.)[/QUOTE] I always defend Tito in this aspect. To anyone who has met Tito he is a stand-up guy (even with ducking Dana earlier this week). All his grave digger taunts and shirts are for show, that is where a Charisma stat should also come in so-to-speak. He may not be the Randy Couture say all the right things, but outside of personal matters with other fighters, Tito is not an "butt" outside of the cage. But I guess that is open to interpretation depending on what you believe. [QUOTE][B][U]Aggressiveness[/U][/B] This should be a fairly straight forward stat. If you want the best example of a fighter with the aggressiveness of a wild animal, look up a top form Wanderlei Silva, or Matt Hughes. This stat determines how aggressive a fighter will be in trying to hurt their opponent, not just looking for the win, they're looking to hurt someone and hurt them bad, because they enjoy it. This should also effect whether a fighter looks for a KO instantly, or looks to win by jabathon.[/QUOTE] This could go along with your respect stat. Silva, Hughes, etc. they don't try to hurt their opponent in terms of intentionally holding onto holds to break bones and such. Both men have incredible amounts of respect for their counterparts in the ring/cage. There are of course others who don't care one way or the other. [QUOTE]There are a lot of other factors that play into a fight other then this too, but MMA is a lot more indepth then just two guys going out there and slugging. I'm sure I can think of more stats, but I'm also sure you guys will think of more then what I just came up with.[/QUOTE] It is very tough and there are tons of different stats to come up with. But I wanted to respond mainly to just the "punching & kicking" stats. I think with each individual style you'll have stats. The Noguiera's would obviously be high 90's in Jiu-Jitsu, while someone like Anderson Silva who does have a black belt from them would be in the 80's or low 90's maybe because he is a much better Muai Thai fighter. Which is where stats are open to interpretation because just because they have black belts doens't mean they are as skilled in that area, we can agree on that. Boxing, Muai Thai, Wreslting, Jiu-Jitsu, and all the other stats to go along with other more personal type stats.

[BlizzardVeers]

Well, I do believe that Styles would be preferrable to Stats .. but the problem with that is, that there are so many different styles in the Martial Arts World that it might be impossible to accurately get them all. You'd have to select a few prominant styles and determine that every fighter needs training in them. But to do that properly, you wouldn't take away the stats I've already posted. They'd just be hidden beneath the Style Stats .. and be added to in there. But, I think that might take away from some of the customization as the fighter. I'm sure Adam and GDS will do what they think is best for playability with it though. As for Tito, personally I think he's a dick with how he acts at times. Frank Shamrock might be a better example of no respect for other fighters other then himself. But, I agree with your assessment of Respect and Arm/Leg reach as well. Low Respect and High Aggressiveness would of course make a fighter more prone to just going all out and doing whatever without worry. While a High Respect and a High Aggressiveness would mean that fighters would have no problem with his style, and though they might get beat the fighter would put them away and leave it alone.

[BuddyGarner]

I definately think arm and leg reach should be in the game. It creates more tangental characters and makes them different. If you have a six foot tall guy with a seven foot wingspan he's special now and makes him more interesting. If you have a short guy with a really short torso but long leg reach it makes him unique too. Like how Rick Law was unique for being six feet and 330lbs which is lost in the size stats of TEW2007. Or how Narato was six foot four and 220lbs.

[ACCBiggz]

As I said, it should be in the game... but maybe not a stat onto itself. It should factor in with height more than anything. There are some that have exception reach for their size, but nothing like their arms are so long they are dragging on the ground while he walks. Corey Hill is a good example, a 6'5"-155lbs fighter. He will have great reach for this size, but with the human body it is a lot about proportion.

[BlizzardVeers]

Well. Arm reach in MMA has some effect on say, Ground and Pound. Fedor Emelianenko and Igor Vovchanchyn come to mind when I say that. Taller bulker guys with shorter reach can throw more velocity into punches from what I've noticed really. That has no bearing on the argument what-so-ever, but, yeah. I know that it would be nice for cosmetic reasons at the very least. If it has no bearing on the mechanics of the game, I couldn't care less really.

[dubb93]

While stats are great, I don't think we can over look tendencies in situations. Having a great striker constantly attempt takedowns would be a bad thing. For instance, while standing a fighter could: Punch Kick Clinch Attempt Takedown Setup Big Shot On the Ground a fighter could: GNP Advance Position Attempt submissions On his back: Tie up oppenent Work for submission Attempt to stand up etc. I think while creating fighters we should be able to set these tendencies somehow. And they should apply for just about every situation that could happen.

[BlizzardVeers]

If you're going to get into that, yes, Fighter Strategies might be needed as well. You could either go simplistic with it, and just set up say.. [B][U]Overall Strategy[/U][/B] Each strategy should be divided up into 100 points overall, because it works and it's efficient. [B][U]Punching[/U][/B] A fighter's will to simply stand up and strike. If most of the fighter's strategy is in this, they will work actively to stand it up so they can punch. [B][U]Kicking[/U][/B] A fighter's will to throw kicks as much as he can. If most of the fighter's strategy is in this, they will work actively to stand it up so they can get into a position to throw kicks. [B][U]Grappling[/U][/B] Basically this is the overally setting for whether a fighter is going to want to goto the ground or not, or is going to look for 'holds' over striking on their feet. This basically determines the urgency to take it to the ground. [B][U]Resting[/U][/B] This is just determining how much the fighter takes a break during the fighter to cool themself off, just in case. [B][U]Cheap Fighting[/U][/B] Likes to bite ears, kick people in the groin, eye gouge and whoo? This would determine how likely a fighter is to actually incorperate dirty fighting into their strategy. This will play into their 'respect' and 'aggressiveness' stat. [U][B]Punching Strategy[/B][/U] [B][U]'Counter Puncher'[/U][/B] Does the fighter look only to counter punch when using punching skills? That would be what this decides. If a fighter with a low Counter style attempts to this, it could be disasterous for him against someone that has a good ability to throw bombs. [B][U]'Street Fighting'[/U][/B] This would be directly related to the punching stat of course, when a fighter has no real training in throwing punches it sometimes seems like throwing a bomb to KO the opponent is the best choice. A fighter with a low punching attempting this would likely leave themself open to a percise striker. [B][U]'Boxing'[/U][/B] This might be one of the more important strategies for a boxer type. I think it would tie directly into the technical punching stat. If a fighter with a poor ability to technically box went up against someone with a good one, they'd likely get their hat handed to them. At the same time, they'd likely leave themself open to a counter puncher just looking for an opening or even someone who's just throwing bombs. A fighter attempting to be a boxer with no real training might find themself on the mat faster then either of the other two. [B][U]Kicking[/U][/B] [B][U]'Muay Thai'[/U][/B] Basically this would be Muay Thai, and determines whether the fighter is going to throw knees a lot or high kicks, which tend to be a norm in Muay Thai fighting. This appeals to technical kicking, and will affect the fighting style in that they'll likely throw more flying knees then the usual fighter. You'll also see elbows thrown from a fighter of this discipline. A Muay Thai strategist might find themself in trouble with someone like a highly trained Kickboxer, but should have no real problem with other styles. [B][U]'Kickboxing'[/U][/B] This stat also appeals to technical kicking, but you're more likely to see high kicks, axe kicks and low kicks from someone with skill in this stat. Not to mention if they have a good technical level of punching, you'll see boxing from them as well. Kickboxers should have no real trouble with any of the other kicking styles aside from a better kickboxer. [B][U]'Simple Kicking'[/U][/B] This only ties into the kicking stat, as a person with a simple ability to kick is just going to throw middle kicks or even kicks to the calf. Nothing impressive here, and someone with a focus on this will likely be defeated by the other styles. [B][U]'Counter Kicking'[/U][/B] [B][U]'Grappling'[/U][/B] 'Muay Thai Clinch' 'Ground and Pound' 'Wrestling' 'Jiu Jitsu' 'Judo' [b][u]'Resting'[/u][/b] Does this need any real explaination or stats to it? It's just the fighter taking a break. [b][u]'Dirty Fighting'[/u][/b] I don't know that this needs anything special to it, unless you want the ability to have a fighter crave ears. :D I got lazy about halfway through here, but I still posted what I was going to do with it. I think you might get my point, and I might finish it later if someone else doesn't finish it off for me. :p

[JMimic]

I might add Sambo to the grappling category...unless you want Fedor at your house...Hah

[praguepride]

I think that there can be a lot more depth added to the "check boxes" from TEW. I'm referring to the personal tab where you can mark if a wrestler was "religious" or had alcohol problems. I thought this was a great way to measure important attributes that don't fit as much on a scale, but can be resolved with a simple yes or no. Some thoughts on additions to that: Format: [B]Attribute Name[/B] Description Trigger: What increases/decreases the chance of this attribute coming into play during a match. Result: The aftermath of the attribute. =================================== [B]Bleeder:[/B] The fighter is more likely to bust open in a match. Trigger: Increased chance if opponent triggered dirty fighting or beserk. Result: Bleeder's performance is reduced slightly by the effects of blurred vision, blood loss etc. and it increases his chance for an injury (sloppy work, cause of blood etc) [B]Dirty Fighter:[/B] This fighter is known to use dirty/cheap/illegal moves. Trigger: Increased chance of triggering if relationship is bad between fighters. Decreased chance if relationship is good between fighters or fighter is professional Result: Causes an increase in injury chance for opponent, as well as a popularity hit for the dirty fighter. Can also get him banned from getting licensed in state. Increased chance of dirty fighter winning. [B]Beserker:[/B] This fighter is known to lose his cool and go into a complete rage during fights. Trigger: Increased chance if there's a bad relationship between fighters or other fighter triggered 'dirty fighting'. Decreased chance if fighter is "professional" or good relationship between fighters. Result: Increased chance of injury for both fighters, increased chance of winning for beserk fighter. [B]Merciful[/B] This worker has a professional attitude and tries to not cause lasting injury to opponents. Trigger: Increased chance of triggering if fighter is "very nice" or good relationship between fighters. Decreased chance if bad relationship between fighters. Result: Decreased chance of injury for opponent, decreased chance of merciful fighter winning match. Increase in likelihood of positive relationship between fighter forming as a result. Increased chance of being re-licensed if not able to for some other reason. [B]Obsessive Gambler[/B] This worker has a gambling addiction and this may impact his performance. Basically the gambler is in debt so bets against himself and throws the match. This has two types: Subtle and Obvious. Trigger: Increased chance if good relationship between fighters. Decreased chance if bad relationship between figthers or fighter is "professional" Result: If triggered, the fighter "throws" the match. The fighter automatically loses the match. If Obvious: Match rating suffers, fighter loses popularity and might get licenses revoked If Subtle: Nothing other then fighter losing the match. [B]Entertainer[/B] This worker is involved with other aspects of the entertainment industry. As a result he might suddenly become successful in another area and gain a popularity boost. Trigger: Increased chance if high star quality/looks/ whatever replaces these Result: Small pop boost all across home region. ======================================= That's a list i compiled. I'm sure more can be added My other opinion is on styles. Styles for me are for fluff and filters. My arguments here: [url]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showpost.php?p=216548&postcount=26[/url]

[RaptorRobertRage]

I'd have to agree with BlizzardVeers on his stats. I see a lot of people posting that things could be generalized, but in doing so you're taking out key, distinguishable points that could make or break a fighter in a match. I have a few friends that are in various MMA establishments throughout the US and all I can say is these guys worry about practically everything before, during and after a fight (eating something improper before a match that might give ya gas, etc). In my mind, after seeing a tonne of MMA matches and hearing stories from my friends currently in the industry, every little bit counts and there really is no generalizing. Somebody can be great at submissions and takedowns, but suck at keeping guys actually on the mat long enough to do any damage, or vice versa. A guy could know how to strike a person really good and where yet have very little punching power (just because somebody knows how to strike doesn't mean that they all have "Brick Houses" for fists, so to speak). Also just because somebody can throw in the odd kick doesn't mean they potentially have the flexibility of others who could easily kick their head off. In any case I'm really against generalizing the stats, as every little bit, no matter how insignificant, counts in a fight. Bleed should definately be some kind of stat, although I don't agree with it simply being a "checkbox", but with that being said a 1-100 stat seems way too blown out. Perhaps a drop-down menu with Very Rarely, Rarely, Average, Often, or Very Often being the Bleed options with some injuries in-game potentially being able to permanently (or even temporarily) raise this level, as bleeding can and sometimes does stop a fight (due to lack of vision or whatever else). So in closing I'd like to say that keeping the stats very specific instead of generalizing or numbing them down will set up much more realistic match results.

[ACCBiggz]

[QUOTE=RaptorRobertRage;216783]I'd have to agree with BlizzardVeers on his stats. I see a lot of people posting that things could be generalized, but in doing so you're taking out key, distinguishable points that could make or break a fighter in a match.[/QUOTE] I think you are mistaking what some of us are saying. I think having a "punching" stat is more simplifying it than Muai Thai and Boxing seperatly. Because they have two different styles, even though Muai Thai also includes kicks and elbows. I can't speak for everyone, but some of us are simply saying a "Punching" stat would not do that well. What are you saying by putting that high? He's good at Muai Thai punching, Boxing, what exactly? I know I simply put down the major styles, but of course Adam would probably expand that into different elements. Like Wrestling for example. You have different types of wrestling and sprawling from the takedown that could fall under it. So on and so forth, but for the sake of the argument I simply put down the main styles and say that stats should fall under certain styles instead of individual attributes like "punching".

[y2trav]

i think there should be power cats as well for kicking and punching. for example chuck lidell throws some of the most ugly, ackward punches in the world, but throws them harder than anyone else in the world(yes i believe hes the most dangerous puncher out there!) on the other hand someone with great technical punching(im thinking nick diaz) doesnt have the same power. id go technical punching, and punching power. maybe same for kicks.

[Unregistered]

Here's a few of my ideas on what has been said. I like the thought you put into to yours Blizzard! These are basically to be added aside of yours, not to go against. I also agree with the need for stratigies in the game. I wonder, have you played No Holds Barred? I think there should be something on Intellegence and Instinct too. [B]Intellenge[/B] A fighter who see's ahead of the game. A guy who you can tell who is thinking about his next move. Normally would go well with submission master, but can go well with a striker as well. I've seen a few times Mirko Cro Cop show a great deal of proper intellegence. Really waiting for his opponent to put his hands down so he can get in one of his excellent kicks. He may not be a mastermind, but it is really something that should be seen in the stats. Lots of people are great kickers, but some people will just wail away on a guy who still has his hands up to protect himself, while others like Mirko tend to make theirs matter more (either by spontienity (spelling?) or by waiting it out). This stat would obviously be much more important with fight break downs, play-by-play or something else that goes into much more debth then just a match overview. I also see this alot in submission fighting, when you see a guy in position to put on some type of a armbar, and instead of just throwing it on right away, he lets the defender worm around trying to get away, and he'll eventually mobilize his arm, making it easier for the agressor to tork it. [B]Instinct [/B] Quite obvious really. Mike Tyson would have been screwed without it, and no one would have ever heard of Mirko. I guess this could also could be seen as agressiveness, or possibly agressiveness could be made its own while this could be split between that and intellegence. The abillity to stay on top of their opponent. In a book I read not too long ago about Jack Dempsy (A boxer, but it fits) was that he fought so agressively because he didn't want to get hit himself. Instinct to me is what keeps a person on the offense, or at very least, keeps himself on his toes and uses the rope/cage to his advantage. Another big thing is, I hope Adam knows of/has played himself the NHB sim. Its great fun, and a very good sim of fights. What makes this game so exciting for me, is that I hope that the fighting simulator is hopefully as good as NHB, but luckily it also encomposes all the outside of the ring stuff that you don't have in the other game. -Edit- Forgot! [B]Styles[/B] Almost as important. I think Styles should be in a seperate menu, like gimmic abillity in TEW. A fighter can grow and fall in abillity in seprete styles. And in a sense, with all the stats that should be in to show how good he is at everything, are somewhat unimportant to the game. However, if they will be in, I think they might as well be put in like the gimmics menu was (but with the abillity to train on them to get better at it). It will show how good they are at everything, since now adays it seems everyone has a good bit of training at several types of Submission, Grappling, Striking. And of course, they're all split into diffrent fight styles, such as Wrestling, Mui Thai, Kickboxing, and many others. It could be split into more then the three groups I put above (Submission, Grappling, Striking) but it would allow you to put in your favorite type or style in under a certain type of degree. I guess what I'm saying, is that it'll allow people to put in fight styles which for whatever reason aren't able to be put in on the original release (such as legal issues or not enough popularity).

[Ghostface]

I think to be as accurate as possible the stats should be broken down as much as they can. Some fighters have great punching power, yet aren't what I'd consider a boxer per se. Other fighters have nasty elbows but aren't strictly Muay Thai fighters either. I think with the sport growing into a more truer form of Mixed Martial Arts, everyone is becoming more diverse in what they can actually do, so the stats will have to be broken down into a fair bit of detail to accomadate that and portray the sport accurately

[y2trav]

[QUOTE=Ghostface;222568]I think to be as accurate as possible the stats should be broken down as much as they can. Some fighters have great punching power, yet aren't what I'd consider a boxer per se. Other fighters have nasty elbows but aren't strictly Muay Thai fighters either. I think with the sport growing into a more truer form of Mixed Martial Arts, everyone is becoming more diverse in what they can actually do, so the stats will have to be broken down into a fair bit of detail to accomadate that and portray the sport accurately[/QUOTE] i agree 100%, the more detail the more realistic your fights will be.