tristram

You just reminded me of one of the dumb things about the show I just watched (the 11/1 show). We see Sting in the rafters, with the 'Band' in the ring. Ok... ok... it worked in 1997/98, but it was SO much better back then. Sting sitting there doing nothing... not working. And then to top it off, 'after the break', Taz and Tenay go "We've reviewed the footage and we're pretty sure that's Sting". What? You're """"""PRETTY SURE"""""""" that that is one of your marquees? We all KNOW that was Sting, yet you're not so sure? Give me a break. Lame. And the other lame piece of commentary from Flair was "I haven't really been watching these two and don't really know their issues but there's a lot of intensity" in the Tomko-Styles match. Weird. Ok, firstly, that sounds like a negative comment in my book. If someone within the industry hasn't been paying attention, why should people outside the industry care? If someone has been placed as a mentor/manager of a figure, shouldn't that person not make it their job, if wrestling was real, to understand a bit about that particular wrestler? Wouldn't that make sense? Either that was poorly written, or Ric got that one way wrong.

Ok, I've finished the show. Sadly, that start to the show was the highlight, and everything for me went downhill from there. Points of interest: * Not overly happy with Lethal Consequences being on the end of a beat down by 3D because they were angry and wanted mic time. I guess, that's just me though because frankly, I like Lethal Consequences, I think both are very talented workers. * Nasty Boys-Team 3D bash up segment. Nasty Boys had a match down under here in Sydney, which became a hard core tag match, and they sucked at it. Everything sounded soft, nothing sounded legit, and it just looked weak. That segment reminded me of that. Did nothing for Team 3D by associating them with Sags and Knobs. Perhaps putting MCMG or Lethal Consequences with them with the idea of giving the youngsters the rub, with NOTHING more in it for Nasty Boys. I don't actually see their relevance, to me, TNA's tag division kills WWE's currently, it seems a bit old school in that it seems genuine. Not digging the Nasty Boys. * Someone made a comment that Flair hasn't been good in years on the mic. You know, I think sometimes we miss the point a bit with Flair. Flair has never been a great 'orator', as in someone who annunciates marvelously. Flair has been someone who creates a pop or heat by raw enthusiasm. It's hard for him to do that from commentary, so I guess it's fair to say he's not commentary material. That said, Pope D'Angelo, I liked his work on guest commentary. * Speaking of commentary, there's a few things here that annoyed me. They are overdoing the repetitive announcement of Hogan/Bischoff, to the point where it almost detracts from the matches. The Tyson Tomko segments... ok, were these supposed to be prerecorded? Because it kinda didn't fit that if he's a 'mystery' man that he's had the time and presence to uncover the mask backstage and talk smack with the production crew to get a video prepared. Even the production video of Tara/ODB, where they openly talk about 'fueds' and 'divas to knockouts' etc, it just sounds sometimes like there's bit of a complex against being the little cousin of WWE. * I saw really no point in them doing away with Christy Hemme for the 'band' segment, either. I don't think Bubba added anything, and personally, Waltman probably could have played off the female tangent with Christy anyway. * Glad to say Angelina Love, and, I thought that angle was done well. GOD, how hot is Velvet Sky? What a figure! Hamada and Kong look quite natural, and by association I think Hamada benefits tagging with Kong. * Tomko-Styles match, was fairly ordinary, comparatively to what Styles-Angle was of course. Tomko didn't look in the best shape either, he looked a bit.. flubby? * Super Max and Morgan - great wrestlers, Super Max is REALLY impressing me. * The crowd were not digging it with Morley. I feel for the guy. I don't think he's as out of it as we think. When did he leave the E? 4 years ago, or something? And in his entire time there it seemed to me the IWC always wanted more to be done with Morley. Now he's in TNA, suddenly he's stale? Anyhow, I liked Daniels work in that segment. * Wolfe-Samoa Joe, good match. I hope that the win by Wolfe is .. 'genuine', in that it keeps him up the card. IE, the match was supposed to make Wolfe look strong, not the beginning of a sluggish run for Joe. * So is World Elite officially dead? Is it true Bashir willingly left TNA, because it's kinda a pain for the World Elite idea, as he was the basis of many different angles I felt. * The Hogan-Jarrett backstage confrontation. First things first, wasn't chuffed with Jarrett's comment that 'the young guys aren't worth a dime, he made them relevant' or words to that effect. I understand the need to turn him heel, if that's what they're intending to do, but I don't think he needs to bury talent when I thought the whole idea of the new TNA was to promote the talent. Otherwise, I didn't mind it, and I liked Jarrett flaking out and leaving when Hogan got up, because comparatively Hogan is so much more stronger and it made sense... sorta like the cowardly cheap heel against the big face in a 'well worked' match. A concern I have also is Jeff Hardy. What's happening there? He's just come basically from the main event of WWE, is a fantastic in ring talent, yet he wasn't even on the show? The guys who appear to be moving up and shaping up to me are Pope and Wolfe, they look... spectacular at the moment. I think they're booking them well, and of course, AJ Styles to me has gone to the next level, and I have been critical of him in the past.

Yep, I agree, Matt Morgan has an enormous future if booked semi-right. Also, I can't believe what I'm hearing about 'paper-scissors-rock'. What is wrong with Scott Hall? Seriously, this to me is his LAST chance. His peak was 10 years ago and on nostalgia value he gets one LAST chance. And he doesn't want to take it? I also cannot believe that they've done away with the six sides. That was a big point of difference, and I think really benefited the X Style with more access to top ropes.

Not quite, I meant they had little tan. Basically, I believe the sky is the limit for them if they could work on their look, they look kinda... ordinary, ordinary by context of pro wrestling standards. In terms of the ring work, I was popping "WOW"'s and "OH MY GOD" relentlessly through that match. LOL@ crying over terminology. Down here we call them solarium Craig, don't get too upset by the wording.

Ok... I'm a week behind (I think), and am starting to get through Impact when the wifey gives me leave to use the TV!!! Have only seen the first match of that show, Generation Me versus MCMG. Wow! The "This is awesome" chants should have been echoing around the arena. Only thing counting against Generation Me is physically they are rather bland. They really time in a solarium and at the gym. I like MCMG and obviously now Generation Me, and I have a lot of time for Lethal-Creed, so I'm kind of hoping to see someone out of those teams starting to move up the card. I feel MCMG have been left to stagnate too long, even though they've excelled down the card its time to let them go up the card I feel.

It doesn't happen down here, at least not in my industry. It would be a restraint of trade. All we are required to sign upon joining our company is a conflict of interest clause and a clause agreeing that the businesses intellectual property is their's and their's alone.

My pick is Ken Kennedy. The simple reason is this, it seems to me that the Hulkamania tour was a big chance for him to politic many of the outsiders in the industry. Nasty Boys, Flair, Venis, Shannon Moore, Jordan, all on that tour, all part of the show now. I suspect Umaga was a great chance. To me, the best match that night by a mile was Umaga-Kennedy, so my pick off the back of that is Kennedy.

One thing to note on the broadcast down under, they must have missed some segments as there was no sight of Orlando Jordan on our show (he did appear, didn't he?) and there was no showing of Ric Flair talking to AJ Styles. One extra thing I didn't like, I think it's when Bischoff meets Krystal. At the top of the segment he says something like that segment is too long, make it shorter... that to me is overly smarky. In some ways, I like some of the old 1980s action when the interview was so not-scripted and was off the cuff, because it felt real. That to me just said everything from here was on a format and a script. Not digging it. The second thing was the Lashley comment, that TNA didn't need him. I just think some subtle rewording would have worked the matter out fine, Lashley is still gone, but perhaps Bischoff sells his loss a bit more, maybe he shows frustration, I dunno, it just seemed to blow him apart a bit. On the Joe-Abyss match, fanastically well worked ending. Credit to those two. Too often lately I've seen submission endings or 'near' endings that lack use of psychology. I've seen wrestlers who if they had their arm fully outstretched rather than half braced would easily get to the rope and therefore render the submission useless. The ring positioning for the finish was excellent and it was just a little basic, along with Joe's use of the chair that to me left Abyss with credit, that was very solid.

I have finally seen the show. It's the first show of any promotion for a number of years I have watched in one go. I tried watching Bret Hart's RAW, but... while I really respect Bret, the whole 'bury the hatchet' segment with HBK was just... well, nuts in my eyes. My thoughts:- * Angle - AJ Styles match. Phenomenal, excuse the pun. In some ways, Kurt Angle is becoming as much of a favourite to me as Bret Hart. He is a world class wrestler, and a better entertainer microphone in hand than Bret, so I got to thinking in the match seeing how well he was selling that he is right now the most complete wrestler going around. The Styles Clash reruns, nice, and nicely thought out that something had to come after the Styles Clash to win, since Angle kept getting up. Even the pin covers, Angle sold well. One in particular, his eyes look dead set glazed and then he brushes Earl Hebner's hand before it comes down. The downside to this match is simple. The match should NOT have been followed with the Foley-Hogan-Waltman-Bischoff-Hall segment. If the word from Hogan is true, that its all about the young guys, lets make a statement and end the show on the match, end the show with a celebration, and perhaps, given the Bischoff-Styles confrontation earlier, Styles having a 'respect' promo on Angle, giving him another shot at Genesis, but as a 60 Minute Iron-Man Match. * The Steel Asulym. I don't like it from a broadcast perspective. The big red chunky steel cage, really. And I think in some ways it forgets one thing. That the show is wrestling, not gymnastics. And basically, going up into the funnel at the top to me is nothing but Nadia Kiminiski gymnastics, which I'm not here to watch. Plus, with the big red chunky steel, it's hard from a television perspective to truly see everything going on. The Homicide baton thing I think was oversold, also. It kind of came from nowhere. And it ruined anything the match could have been. Perhaps the escape to the outside should not be at the top in the middle, and can also end with pinfall.. or something. I don't know, the match just appears illogical. * Jeff Hardy showing up, set the show off on a good tangent. * The mystery man. Has to be someone like RVD or Goldberg, or else its a major let down in my eyes. If its someone of a lesser calibre, have them interfere midcard, not main event. * Flair's arrival was well done, but perhaps, it might of been nice when Eric Young is at the back that Eric Young mouths off at Flair for trying to hog the limelight. Young as a heel just shaking his hand and nodding... a bit soft. * The Mick Foley thing. Didn't mind it. But, again, it should NOT be the show closer. That belonged to Angle-Styles. * The Hogan interruption on Jarrett. Didn't really like it, because aside from belittling Jarrett who the TNA crowd are hot for, essentially everything Hogan had said, Jarrett had already said. Didn't think it was necessary. * Loved the Val Venis-Beautiful People segment. Sold well. * Did not enjoy the Nasty Boys, but can cop it given they didn't wrestle. The sad thing is they're going to it looks like be popped into a feud with 3D. The problem is, 3D often win with big table spots, and I swear, the hardcore tag match the Nasty Boys had down here in Australia at Sydney was the softest lot of trash I have ever seen. Sags and Nobs can not go anymore. They barely could 10 years ago. * Loved the Desmond Wolfe-Pope match. Loved the commentary and how they sold Desmond Wolfe's catch as catch can wrestling style and his ability to go after particular body spots. Pope sold those moves well. * I thought the Samoa Joe-Abyss match was extremely, extremely good. The ending was outstandingly well done, as it did not destroy Abyss at all. Nice match. * With the Bobby Lashley segment... two things. Firstly, Krystal was brilliant at getting the crowd riled up. But... but... but... Why on a show where you are trying to promote TNA to a larger audience do you want a segment where basically you are saying TNA is not good enough, or big enough, for Lashley, and that MMA is more what he strives for? I thought he strives competition? Overall, I think someone elses comments earlier, that it wasn't a home run but an RBI is a solid summation. It did a lot of very, very, very good things, but ultimately a few things need to be logically tied together to make much sense. That said, I can watch this style of wrestling entertainment more than WWE's at the moment.

And then to bank on the aspect of the promotion that gave it back some popularity after starting to stagnate (IE the Four Horsemen), WCW did the honourable thing and basically booked it and the workers in it into the ground. I have never been so fired up for a fight as to when Ric Flair rips on Bischoff that night when the Horsemen reform, it is such a hot segment. Pity, like the way the Sting-Hogan feud had been booked, that the pay-off dates are poorly executed and all the stigma and work that goes into it all is blown to smitherenes. I hope they use the nWo-ites and the Hogan-allies to help put over the likes of Beer Money, Jay Lethal, Samoa Joe and the like. In my mind, I have no problem with the older guys coming in if they intermingle with the lower card and help build them up to go over. I'm not saying to job the first night, I'm saying to built up interest, and then to let their opponents superior wrestling skills take over. Of the newcomers, aside from Flair of course, the guy I'm looking forward to the most is Jeff Hardy.

I believe that's correct. Aside from Bret's 'Hart Foundation Kliq', the likes of Undertaker and Mick Foley from recollection were heavily on the side of Bret, so to me, Undertaker with Bret in his corner against Michaels with Vince in his corner makes perfect sense.

You could put me in that category. I tried watching WWE's product post WCW, gave them the benefit of the doubt, and then was haunted to tears by their version of the Invasion which was horrid to say the least. Since then, I don't think I've ever watched a full TV wrestling broadcast. TNA has been close with it's better in ring action, but lacks final end storyline execution to compel me to truly try it. I don't know if I'd be tempted by what I read on this show. While there's a lot of familiar faces I like including Flair and Hall, I need logical booking of someone like Jeff Hardy, and perhaps the addition of more relevant workers who cna go a good storyline like RVD and Kennedy to really consider it. There are sections I love of their product including the Knock Outs and the likes of Kurt Angle, but the fact that the likes of MCMG seem to go nowhere, nor does the likes of Jay Lethal or the like, it makes it difficult despite yearning for a truly competitive wrestling environment.

I forget exactly how it went down, but it was similar in WCW, when they used to tape the shows in advance at the Disney Studio. I think it may have been the tag titles where the issue was, where a guy got injured or left the promotion or something, and he was still being shown on TV with the belt and on the live shows obviously the belt was on someone else altogether to cope with the loss of one of the tag wrestlers... I can't remember the exact story, but it was something like that.

That's not completely true. WCW had some very, very profitable years. Whilst its true to say as a stand alone entity it was a cash cow at the end, its also important to note that despite ratings being low the advert slots were very lucrative. The main reason WCW is no longer here is not to do with ratings or individual profitability, its to do with the fact that certain executives in the new merger did not want a professional wrestling product in their schedule. They wanted to take the networks away from the young male demographic and this precluded WCW's existence. Once WCW was without a network it was shot. All the merger really proved was that WCW did not fit into a new strategic direction for the merged entity. I've seen a little of Sheamus, and I don't buy him. He has the look that appeals to me to be decent mid to upper-midcarder, but... he just doesn't strike me as having 'it'. I know he's obviously had a strong push to try and sell it, but its sorta like Christopher Daniels to me. Daniels is great at putting guys over, but he just doesn't have that extra 1% to be the go-to man. I will however applaud the WWE though for trying to create new champions, overall I think their booking of Sheamus and Drew McIntyre has been very good. I didn't see the PPV, how did a pure TLC PPV go? For me, TLC is a specialty, its something that you book 'all out' and 'overbook' and you need special dynamics to pull it off. I am not sure how a complete TLC card would go, so I'm interested to hear how it did go. Or was it matches that were ladders, chairs, or tables, or TLC.. in other words not all TLC matches?

I'm not sure about Daniels. I buy him as a very effective wrestler from top to bottom of the card, but I'm just not sure about the top guy. I can't describe what it is, but I don't know if he quite... has the look? Maybe that's it? I can buy him as a transitional champ, but I don't know if he's... the guy for me. I really think the go-to guy for them is aside from Angle is Samoa Joe, he has "it". What about the lower midcarders, particularly the MCMG, Consequences Creed and Jay Lethal? To me, I see stars in them. The question is which one is ready to rise, and then how to get them up. For some reason, I love Lethal and Creed. Great talents in my eyes.

lol - dude, seriously. You said it all yourself in those words I just bolded. You have entirely read way too much into it than you ought to have, if I'm not mistaken, this is a TNA discussion, not a pick a forum poster's opinion apart. And that's what I thought was going on, a basic discussion. In respect to "You're preaching to the choir. I'm the guy who was accused of being of a workrate junkie in 2000 but yet marked hard for Ernest Miller. I'm the guy who's always defended That 70's Guy gimmick of Mike Awesome's because he played it like he lived it.", no disrespect intended, that's nice and all, but I really don't try to, nor do I really care to, try and make a grasp as to what your take on things are. Nor do I intend to preach to you. Again, I, like the other posters, am merely remarking on TNA. Did I accuse you of being a workrate mark somewhere? Did I accuse you of criticising Mike Awesome somewhere? I was merely replying to your post on TNA, trying to highlight why those segments are there. Again, teenage male audience=lucrative market, and the mere fascination with beautiful women sells products including PPVs. You're trying to make my own case better lol. Thanks, I appreciate it. So you can see my point, but have taken it, somehow, personally? I think you and I are going to have to agree to disagree - you are wanting to misread something that is clearly not intended, so lets let the other folks talk TNA as they, and I, had intended.

I think you may be missing the intent and the gimmick of the Beautiful People. What you're basically saying is akin to saying that you don't tune into wrestling to watch cheap comedy and you could easily do it watching HBO stand up... but that's half of what DX is built on. Well rounded professional wrestling promotions are no longer merely get in the ring for 15 minutes, work a slow paced match with a decent finish, intermitted with three or four 'Enhancement Talent' v Upper Midcard matches, and then a ten minute end match with a controversial win or at least a controversial attempt at a win to keep a town hot and a feud relevant. The remote is all too easily accessible if you are getting the same old, same old. Marketing hot chicks is a major marketing tool to draw in the teenage male market, a very lucrative market. The Beautiful People clearly are designed to say, we're better looking than you but they play it so that it highlights the others, like ODB, Taylor Wilde, Tara, Amazing Kong, who are clearly better workers than them by basically selling everything under the sun for them as they're just pretty girls.

The thing I like about the Knock Outs is the variety. They're not all dyed in the wool glamour blondes. You do have that with the Beautiful People (yum yum Velvet Sky... did I mention I like Velvet Sky???!), you've got a randy southern gal bourbon drinker, and you have the extremely strong Amazing Kong... Personally, I like it, and I like ODB.

I was just saying in another thread, nothing these days can be an original concept. Story-telling basically evolves and elaborates the tropes we already know and love. It's like the old saying, sex sells, certain storyline tropes and arcs sell too, it's just a matter of how they're recycled to whether people buy their faux pas 'originality'. Lads, feel free to kiss and make up at any time... Just not in front of me, k?

Maybe there's therapy for ''''specialists'''' like us? Absolutely. Always on the Stinger's side. He was just .... so different. And yes, we did get PPV free to air, TV2. Great times. Yes we did get it on delay. When Nitro first actually came on, it was something like a 2-3 month delay. And even before that, we got I think it was WCW International, and that was it. Nitro was Friday night on TV2 at 11PM. I don't believe we ever got Thunder, for that matter.

Fan: "Go back to Toronto!" Y2J: "I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot!" Heh, I must profess man-lub for Jericho. Great wrestler, awesome entertainer. A great ability to steal shows with one liners that don't appear so droned out by scripting because he has great timing to deliver them as they're required.

LOL. I am serious. My mrs is the best chick ever. She supports whatever sports teams I like, if I want to watch wrestling she'll watch it too... very easy going. But yes, if there's someone she doesn't know she's gonna be busting my chops asking a lot of questions. Is it becoming obvious? :eek: Believe it or not, outside of these boards these days I find myself very uninterested in professional wrestling. But the WCW thing... it just reminds me of finishing high school where a heap of us were so into Sting fighting off the nWo ... it was the shizzle. We even had in class tipping competitions on Pay-Per-Views. Where I came from, we didn't have 'cable', we had two national broadcast channels and the only wrestling they picked up was WCW Monday Nitro and the Pay-Per-Views (for free), so there was no alternatives. So it became that you either loved rugby union or you loved WCW.

In fairness... AJ had a brief run in WCW too when they enacted the WCW Cruiserweight Tag Division he tagged with Air Paris... A lot of those guys I would personally pay to see, probably with the massive exception of Sid Vicious... Their last Pay-Per-View was pretty good and featured Styles, Daniels and Samoa Joe in the main event and Kurt Angle and Desmond Wolfe in the semi main event (hardly a WCW love in)... Raven is pretty sweet no matter what he's doing and frankly I regard him more as a ECW megastar... As long as they still have time for the Knock Outs, the X Division, grow storylines for the X Division guys to get feuds with the WCW guys and then on a few occasions allow the X Division type guys to go over, then it's all ok to me. Also, I think it's Pepsi that's for a new generation

Did I just read through that and not see a Hogan promo?? If Hogan isn't winding up the crowd...yuck. It means I've got a couple of hours to sit through with the wife going "When's Hogan coming out?" "Where's Flair?" "Who's that guy?" "I don't know him, who's he?" "How old is that guy?", "Who's he?" and of course "Who's he?" intermitted with "When does this end?" and "Can we go home now?"

Dude, don't kid yourself. If there's one bloke who can hold a candle to nevermore in the realworld genre its you. You two are absolute legends and I salute you both. nevermore, cast my first vote in a diary of the month poll in a long while and it went to you, any other result would be truly jacked up. I can't begin to imagine how you continue to pull off these amazing shows so long into this particular diary. Hell, you've outlasted TEW versions Its one thing to have longevity, its quite another to have refreshing creativity and a real vision for perfection. I feel the genre you're writing in, I feel your imagination, I read your text and the visions pop into my mind... I love a good read, and frankly there's only a few that I read that have legendary creativity on here and this will always master that. ECW Undisputed Tag Team Championship Match Thomaselli - Thomaselli '08 vs. The Dudley Boyz© ECW Lioness Title Match AKINO vs. Alexis© ECW World Television Title Match Eddie Guerrero vs. Juventud Guerrera© "The Prototype" Andrew Martin vs. Balls Mahoney Masters of Pain Qualifyong Match Cactus Jack vs. Mark Calaway - wow, I mean, wow, what a match this should be Paul Burchill & Vito Thomaselli vs. Raven's Nest - much like you, I am a mad Raven fan so I'm begging for the Nest to go over.