bookerman

That was also May 2 which is ancient history to a majority of wrestling fans. If the WWE promotes it as having the title, then it will have the title. I don't think they NEED to have the title involved to pop the buyrate, but as demented as Vince is right now (read likely changing the title at NoC to pop a higher rating Monday night...even though it neuters someone they spent almost a year building up...ADR). If they have any foresight, you promote the match without the title involved and if it's needed you can always work it in. Little harder to do it the other way. I like the long term idea and think that in many other companies it would have a chance of working and being successful. WWE is too shortsighted to ever do something like that. They've had enough trouble just with Rock/Cena this year. My $.02

One idea Lagana floated I think was have the Rumble winner face the Undertaker in an attempt to end the streak. Make it a one time deal. Really, I'd keep the title out of the Rock/Cena match. It can still headline WM and the title match can be the semi-main. From either side, you either have Cena win and keep the title which probably upsets even more fans or Rock wins and may/may not be available to defend it. In addition, a guy who has barely wrestled in 7+ years comes back and beats the Champ. Makes the champ look like a chump.

One thing for the HitC 3 way....the enemy of my enemy is my friend. From Punk's perspective, who is the bigger enemy? The man who cheaply took his title or the the man who represents everything that he's been rallying against the last few months?

Agreed. Without the brand split, it's kinda meaningless..unless only wins on your respective show counts towards that title. If you're a RAW superstar, only wins on RAW and PPVs count towards you getting a shot at the RAW title. If they are really wanting to have the brand titles defended more often, they could do it once every two weeks which still allows two weeks to either build the new champ for the PPV or for a rematch (depending on which brand was getting the PPV shot that month).

Replace Shane with Johnny Ace and I think you might be closer to actual events. Ace is the puppet for Vince who causes HHH to lose and Ace get the COO job

Good stuff DJ. I'd go so far to say that they create "Brand Titles" like RAW Title and Smackdown title. These titles are only defended on their respective shows and PPVs. The World/WWE title can go between shows much like the NWA title going to territories. It is ONLY defended on PPVs, barring special circumstances. The holder of the brand titles is the #1 contender for when the WWE title is available. They will give each brand 5 title shots a year (one every other month or so). The Rumble winner and the KOTR (8 man tournament, 4 from each brand) winner get automatic title shots at Wrestlemania and Summerslam respectively. It makes those two PPVs more important and the results mean something. The MITB winners would be allowed to cash in for a shot a their brand's title. Course this is pie in the sky thinking as it would require long term planning. However, if the RAW champ lost to the World champ in June as well as a new SD champ was crowned, then your next PPV match is World champ vs new SD champ with the RAW title also being defended to determine the next challenger for the World title.. That gives 4 weeks to hype 2 big matches.

The Edge that became and stayed a ME player was not the same Edge who debuted, joined the Brood/Ministry, and did poses for those with cameras. His character was different. I also seem to recall that they had wanted to push him faster, but he kept getting hurt...that being part of the reason it took so long for him to reach the top. HOWEVER, I will add that he had established such a history in the WWE and had legitimized himself with his body of work that he didn't slide too far from the top when he didn't have the title. That's in contrast to guys like Ziggler, Swagger, Miz, etc who reached the top of the mountain and then went sliding right back down. Same for JBL. It was John Hawk Bradshaw or Blackjack Bradshaw or APA Bradshaw that was pushed to the top. It was an updated Million Dollar Man gimmick complete with a new entrance, new wrestling attire, new mannerisms, a fancy car, and a stable (Orlando Jordan, the Bashams). Contrast these to Morrison (roughly the same character), Kofi, Swagger, Ziggler who aren't very different from how they originally debuted (don't start with Ziggler was in the Spirit Squad cause I'm pretty sure the WWE hasn't brought that up). Same for Rhodes and Dibiase (although Rhodes is moving towards a different character now). Drew Mcintyre has held the IC title and the tag straps and has trouble getting on TV. Point is, WWE only builds someone as credible when they need a contender. R-Truth is a good example in recent memory. A lot of the booking/writing is centered on the 1 or 2 main stories and everything else and eveyone else is left to fend for themselves.

Forgot to add, if they (they being Vince/Steph/creative/etc) can't have a decent idea of what is/is not going to get a reaction then they shouldn't be in a position to determine that.

Maybe I've listened to too many I Want Wrestling podcasts, but it's more than changing things to suit crowd reaction. It's rewriting entire shows the day of and segments minutes before they go on air, especially promos. I trust the opinion of people who have worked for the WWE for years when they say that "Vince has trouble making up his mind and even when he does, it could change again before going on air." That's a diservice to the writers/creative and the talent for putting them in a position of not knowing what they are doing or where there character is going in the coming weeks and months. It's a flavor of the week deal. As opposed to long term story archs, they blow through months of material in a few weeks. Christian/Orton could have gone on for months IF they hadn't done any matches on TV together except the first one. Every other rematch could have been on PPV. And during the feud, when did Orton ever "show @$$" in terms of making Christian into a credible threat that could beat him without needing stips. Fans cheer and back winners...period. At some point, if they guy/team they are following doesn't win (and win clean), they stop being seen as credible (see WCW vs NWO -WCW never got the upperhand and eventually crowd support for the "good guys" turned into apathy). Even if a heel is going to ultimately lose, they still need to be seen as a credible threat to the face. Think about how boring Batman comics would be if the worse thing the Joker did to get over was to try to get Batman thrown in jail or to knock over a hot dog stand. Those aren't "evil". The Joker got over b/c he very often had Batman at his wits end and Batman was either just a bit smarter or quicker on the draw or pulled out a miraculous batarang throw just in time to foil the Joker's plans. Wrestling is similar. The heels HAVE to be seen as a threat. Whether it be to the faces title, to the faces health, or something. In the end, the face needs to win the war, but the heel needs to win some battles along the way. I don't think Christian won enough battles to make the war really interesting. Also found this link interesting: http://realwrestlecrap.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=WWE&action=display&thread=342951&page=1

Totally agree, MITB/Royal Rumble/etc should be used as stepping stones on the way up and as part of a long term progression plan. I liken it to creating TV/Movie stars. It's VERY rare that someone shows up on a movie/TV show and is instantly a hot draw. Guys like Tom Hanks, Jim Carrey, Mark Wahlberg, George Clooney, Brad Pitt, took time to become who they are. Over time their roles got larger and larger and they were able to command higher dollars for their work.

On the 1st RAW Supershow, Christian ate the pin even though the next night he was going to face Orton on Super Smackdown. Why couldn't Sheamus (coming off losing a feud with Henry) take the fall by losing to Christian? Gives both of them something to do next (and it appears that is the direction they are going) and it makes Christian a little stronger going into his title match. And yes, it's possible to push multiple people at once, but it takes some long term thought and 75% of a show can't be devoted to 2 angles leaving the rest of the roster to fight over 30 mins of air time. At any time, the WWE should be able to answer the "what now?" before it happens. If Cena beats ADR, what now? Henry gets the belt from Orton...ok...what now? Instead of building credible challengers/opponents from the midcard, they use plug and pray booking and HOPE that the program works out. Looking at the midcard talents, Bryan has Bret Hart level potential but is feuding with Sin Cara, Ziggler and Swagger have unique looks, but really haven't been allowed to put things together and have a nice streak recently. Miz has mic skills and is a heat magnet, but was booked weakly in his first run. Morrison can't talk, but his flashy offense is a nice contrast to the more grounded others. Riley has a nice look but hasn't been booked strong on TV recently. He and Morrison in a tag team would be interesting. Kofi and Evan are tag champs. Barrett can talk and is solid in the ring. Rhodes and Dibiase have potential, but need strong booking (ie clean wins over people for an extended period of time). WWE has some nice pieces, but it appears the puzzle they are trying to put together changes at the drop of a hat.

Does anyone think that at the end of the current programs (Cena/ADR and Orton/Henry) that both Cena and Orton won't have the titles? What was the last storyline that either were involved in where the title wasn't the main factor? If you took Cena AND Orton off the roster right now, who would main event PPVs and TV? In the past, they had enough upper tier stars that they didn't need two guys to carry the programs. Austin, Rock, Mankind, UT, HHH, HBK when he came back with undercard acts like the Hardyz, Dudleys, Edge/Christian. The WWE has done a poor job of creating interest in stars outside of Cena/Orton and until recently, Punk. I still don't understand why WWE didn't have someone like Mason Ryan or another young guy under contract play the Nash role. Punk takes them on at NOC and after Punk wins a hard fought match, he tries to interogate them, trying to find out who cost him the title. Just as Punk is about to get his answer, he's assaulted from behind by a chair wielding..... Point being, the younger wrestler gets some attention and allows for the story to continue to evolve without having to napkin book like the last few weeks. Which is the crux of a lot of the WWE's issues, the constant changing of storylines and shows (up to hours before) leads to start/stop booking, talent treading water, and inconsistency in story telling.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Fantabulous" data-cite="Fantabulous" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>One of the other things they rarely do is give the heels credibility in matches. The Monday before Summerslam, six days before becoming World Champion, ADR lost to Punk in a little over four minutes. If the guy is going to be your next champion, and he's getting the belt in six days, at least make him look competitive with the current champ by going a while. Make him look like an undeserving champion, but don't make him look like a weak one. Nobody cares about a belt held by someone like that.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Totally agree. I don't think they should have had Punk wrestle at all on TV before Summerslam and certainly not face the guy that was likely going to get the belt. They gave away a money making first match on TV for what?</p>

<p>Going back to Cena holding the title for a while. WWE is typically a face based company (Hogan, Cena, Bruno, Backlund, Bret, Austin) while WCW/NWA was mainly heel based (Flair, NWO). Memphis was also face based with Lawler. Mantel talks about on a podcast how bringing in a new heel, they knew he had a run of 8-12 months with the heel working his way up to fighting Lawler and once he was defeated, he would go somewhere else. WWE has done a poor job of building up credible threats to Cena with the start/stop pushing of Swagger and others. They've also not built up the face ranks well with only Kofi and Rey being the ones that haven't flip flopped back and forth. Del Rio was hotter 3-4 months ago than he is now with the belt. Some of that is due to Edge getting hurt. However, I'm not sure he's been built up enough as a Main Event talent that everyone sees him as a legit champ.</p><p> </p><p> Honestly, I'd rather see them give ADR vs Punk a few months of run with Cena trying to work his way back into the title picture (he's 0-2 vs Punk) and settle things with HHH.</p>

John Cena has held the WWE Heavyweight Title 9 times for a total of 1044 days which is 4th longest all time behind Bruno, Hogan, and Backlund. It's also almost double the amount of time that HHH, Austin, and Savage had the strap for. It's easily more than double the reigns of Orton, Michaels, The Rock (297 days), and Angle (also 297). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WWE_Champions I think one important thing to pull from this is guys like The Rock didn't need the belt to stay over. I've often wondered this about Cena, if he doesn't have the belt but is still a big part of shows, how does it impact business? Less merch sales? Less house show income?

Guess I'm looking at it from a Jumbo/Misawa angle where the rising talents (in this case the current top guys) get a bump from beating the previous top guys (nay WWE Legends). A couple of dream matches, the renewal of an old rivalry (Orton/HHH) and a young trash talker looking to break the STREAK and cement his legacy.

My fantasy booking/2 cents Next week, they crown a new champ and HHH announces that since Cena can't have a rematch against Punk, he gets a shot at the title at Summerslam. A chance at redemption. If he loses, it's his last title shot this year and he'll have to work his way back up to the top, including losing his Main Event slot at WM. Cena loses and is now doing opening match duty on Raw. But this isn't pandering Super Cena, this is focused aggressive Cena, playing the underdog/me vs the world role he seems good at. He also changes his attire to something more "wrestler" to reflect his new nature and desire to be serious. No more 5 knuckle shuffle or you can't see me. Just Cena going out and blitzing the low ends of the Raw roster in sub 5 minute matches. Any interviews are him being focused on regaining the Main Event at WM and taking one more step up the ladder.He can still wear the shirts and hats. He gets to Royal Rumble and wins the Rumble. The Rumble stip being the winner can either challenge for the WWE/heavyweight title or face the Rock in the Main Event at WM. Cena makes it to WM and faces the Rock in the ME. The previous 9 months have rebuilt Cena as a focused individual who is driven to succeed. He can certainly take some losses during the time and use these "setbacks" as motivation. Punk gets a few months off and uses social media to keep his name popping up with the title. Much like HBK/Razor, when he comes back, he's got a beef with whoever the WWE Champ is. If they could hold it off, a unification match at WM would be great. The other thought I had would be a quadruple Main Event at WM - Cena vs The Rock - Punk vs Stone Cold Steve Austin - Orton vs HHH - Miz vs Undertaker A true passing of the torch WM where the WWE Legends put over the next generation of talent (except for Undertaker who keeps his streak alive). All of them have fairly easy reasons for taking place. You then start building to Cena vs Punk II @ Summerslam as well as Orton vs Miz. Thoughts? Too much long term thinking?

I know Cena is the uberface, but is there ANY chance they pull a Rock at Survivor Series and have him turn on Batista and say "Hey you know what...I am a corporate puppet!!" It would be totally against his image, but the everyman wholesome Cena is probably less entertaining than heel Cena with McMahon backing. Granted, I want as little McMahon on my TV as possible, but it's an interesting idea no? His take no prisoners ideals turn into "screw you, you can't touch me!". Then again, he'll probably kick out of 3 Batista bombs and signal the return of super Cena.

Tag team wrestling has it's place. Current day, I could see it being used as a way to break in young talent by either pairing them with veterans who aren't doing much or bringing them in together and letting them slowly work up the ladder. The thing that the WWE fails to do is plan long term (i'm talking years here). They bring up singles talent and either burn through potential matches in a few months or continue to bring up new talent instead of taking the time to fully flesh out and establish the talent they have. They have a whole show devoted to guys trying to make it to the WWE while they have guys like Swagger, Mcintyre, etc who haven't been up long and whose character hasn't been fully developed. This is in addition to guys like Rhodes, Dibiase who are more established but still growing into their characters. This is akin to a sports team constantly shuffling guys in and out of the bottom third of their roster without really giving those guys a fair chance to see if they can make it at this level. Back to the tags. Putting guys together and letting them work while developing is a solid way to a) keep them fresh, b) hide weaknesses, c)give them confidence in front of large crowds, and d) make them more valuable long term. Yes, it's more costly short term, but if the WWE has already invested time/money into getting these guys to this level, don't you think they'd like to have something to show for it besides a 3 month run with the big club and then being sent back down or released. After tagging for a while, they can be given house show matches or early segments against some of the midcard or higher talent to see how they look. This is how Bret/Shawn eventually moved to singles. Bret had house matches with Dibiase, Perfect,etc and even though he lost, he still made a good showing and proved to be someone who could shine in singles. As far as money goes, do you think someone like Kane or Big Show is actually earning what they are making? These guys are in UMH (Upper Midcard Hades) and I'm sure are being paid well even though they aren't draws or headliners. Really, I think you could use these two in tags (even together as a team) and as heavyweight gateways into the upper card for some of the younger monsters (Swagger for instance). Keep em strong over the midcard, have them lose to the MEs. Enough rambling. Point being, the WWE could use tags effectively if they chose to devote time and energy to doing so.

So....for tonight's RAW... What's the over/under on the number of stunners SCSA dishes out tonight? And more importantly, who does he stunner during the McMahon/Hart contract signing? Vince only? Bret only? Both? Neither? I think he gives Vince at least one and gives Bret an out. Plus, I don't think Bret is up to taking a stunner at this point.

A long time ago (and possibly in a galaxy far, far away) I heard someone compare Matt Hardy to Bret Hart in that he was a talented tag wrestler who appeared to have the ability to be a singles star. That comparison has stuck with me and I see it being less and less possible now. Keep in mind though that once Austin and the Rock got rolling, that guys like Bret and HBK were less important. I'd say the same for Hardy. His chance for stardom was a few years ago before Cena, Orton, Batista, etc established themselves. Now Matt is in midcard pergatory with little signs of getting out. If the WWE would ever establish a credible tag division, I could see guys like Hardy filling the Arn Anderson role (veteran wrestler who knows all the tricks) as the 2nd half of a talented team.

How about two eight man tag matches? Two pros and rooks per team or even 4 rooks per team? if it's a rookie showcase, why are Hardy and Regal wrestling? Sheffield, Barrett, and Ortunga will get deals at some point based on looks alone. Maybe instead of one contract, they could each be wrestling to showcase their talent and then will be picked by the Raw/Smackdown GMs in a minidraft with a title shot being awarded to the first pick from each brand. This gives them something to work for while also allowing them time to develop. Again, you still have the interclass feuds that can develop as they try to surpass each other and move up the ladder.

The WWE runs through it's talent faster than it really should. While I understand the need for keeping a concise roster, you also have to keep options available for wrestlers for matches/feuds/etc. How many times have Orton and HHH feuded? Orton and Cena? They blow through feuds/matches so fast (and on free TV no less) that once guys reach the top, there isn't a lot of fresh matches left for them. It is possible to have your superstars be on TV regularly and not have them wrestle in all that many singles matches. Use tag and six man matches. Instead of PPVs being enhanced RAW/Smackdowns with more gimmick matches, they become important for people to see the blowoff/continuation of feuds. I'd go so far as to say that no one in the upper tier should face each other in singles matches unless it's a PPV. UFC doesn't give away money matches on TV too often. If they want to make the top tier look good, put them against some of the mid card and have them go 10-12 mins on TV. Midcarder gets some TV time, Star gets a win, they can advance the feud with challenges, intereference, post match attacks, etc without having star A and star B either has a schmozz ending or giving away a hot match on free TV. Just my thoughts. Not saying anyone that was released is irreplaceable, but they could certainly fill roles in the company if given the chance.

As interesting as a concept as it is, you'd think they'd try to create something like the Generations in NJPW. You have the HHH/UT/HBK old guard, the Cena/Orton/Batista group, Legacy/Swagger/etc as a group and then these rookies. Not only could you have some feuds as one class tries to surpass another, but even within the classes it would create rivalries. Ki and Bryan could be kept apart until a PPV and then be presented like the Ultimate Fighter finale where the winner gets placed on one of the main brands. To really advance book, you could have Ki win that battle and then Miz attack Bryan for losing. Ki gets a bump from winning and moving forward, DB gets to have a feud with the Miz before moving on. They've laid the foundation for two more stars (maybe not world champs, but two guys who people can get behind and like. Just a thought.