MainOffender
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Posts posted by MainOffender
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Good info here, thanks for testing! Curious about a few things:
Have the training levels of any of the schools gone up? Looking at the data, I think they're all set to start at 25%.
Have you tried running a similar test with the training levels set higher? Wonder what the spread of attributes would look like at 100%.
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O-ou.
From Deathmatch to Gory Hardcore. You sold out, Koichi Kajiwara. You sold out. This really grinds my gear as changing the product also halts popularity progression!Wow! Sucks for you but very cool to see that happening in-game.
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I ran a bunch of tests on this yesterday to try to keep the big companies from losing their TV deals so frequently. (You may have fixed this in 1.11 -- I was already in the weeds by the time I noticed you posted so haven't updated. Maybe this was all a waste of my time! Oh well!) I've gotten it to the point where after two years the big powers have all maintained their TV deals, except for SWF who stupidly ran a bunch of shows in the UK that got them canceled in the US. (I think that's something that should be addressed by Adam because it's not possible for players to fix.) Maybe some of what I did will be useful to you.
Anyway, the CVerse networks in the Default data are kind of a mess. There are way, way too many Terrestrial Commercial (higher expectations) networks and hardly any Cable Commercial (lower expectations). So, the first thing I did was reclassify a lot of the networks. The region/pop requirements on the Default networks are also out of wack and haven't really been updated to take into account the way popularity works now. I didn't fully overhaul these but rather tweaked a few to give companies in different countries viable paths onto TV.
Another thing that was screwing up TV deals were the Broadcaster Styles. The AI is very picky about that in 20 and won't renegotiate with companies that don't suit their style -- this was a big problem in particular for NOTBPW (who were on a Mainstream broadcaster) and CGC (who were on a Sports broadcaster).
Here's the log of the changes I made if you're interested:
Switched a number of broadcasters from Terrestrial Commercial to Cable Commercial. (Sorry I didn't actually keep track of this as at the time I didn't think I'd be sharing and was just tooling around.)
Deleted TCW on East Coast Today.
Switched TCW to America Sports One.
Switched SWF to C.A.N.N. with an Evening time slot.
Switched CGC's deal to CBN.
Switched NOTBPW to Maple Leaf Sports.
Changed UCR's product to Classic Balanced. (No Style seems like a product meant for players, not the AI. It was making it hard for them to stay on TV.)
Switched America Sports 1 to All Sports. Upgraded to Pro wrestling stance.
Switched Japanese Sports Vision to All Sports. Reduced minimum size to Medium. Reduced to 60 pop in 6 regions.
Reduced National Pride TV to 20 pop in 8 regions.
Reduced Maple Leaf Sports to 30 pop in 6 regions.
Reduced CBN to 35 in 7. Made Highly Pro wrestling stance.
Reduced North America Prime Select to 55 in 15.
Reduced C.A.N.N. to 45 in 15 regions. Made Highly Pro on wrestling. Mainstream focus.
Changed MySelect USA to 35 pop in 3.
Changed UK-1 to 59x1.
Changed America Option to accept Small companies at 59x1.
I also did these Production changes for companies as their TV deals demanded them anyway:
Upgraded BHO to Major Licensed Music.
Upgraded NOTBPW to In House broadcast quality and Licensed Music.
Upgraded CGC to In House BQ.
Upgraded SWF to Major Licensed music.
Upgraded DAVE to Pro production values, In House BQ, and Licensed music.
Upgraded PGHW to High Quality production values and Major Licensed music.
Upgraded GCG to Hired Pro BQ and In House music.
Upgraded UCR to In House BQ.
And a few small tweaks to company schedules (some of this is my personal preference, some of these were set as Fixed with no Events so never ran shows).
Put ARW on Monthly schedule
Put Hinote on Created Tours schedule
Put MOSC on Almost Weekly
Put INSPIRE on Created Tours
Set YTD company schedules to Monthly or Created Tours (Japan).
Here's the data if you want to have a look. Hope this is helpful!
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Nightshadeex" data-cite="Nightshadeex" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49248" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Broadcasters need some fixing from what I'm noticing. I ported them over, but there have been changes in how they function, so it's extra impossible for the AI to get TV. I'm going to update them and then update the release.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Aw! I started a save with this that I really don't want to abandon. Is it possible for you to give me a quick idea of what I should look at if I want to tweak broadcasters in the in-game editor?</p>
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Tomato Can" data-cite="Tomato Can" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49771" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If we download the newest version of the mod, will it overwrite the saved game that we have already started?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It won't overwrite your save so long as you don't mess with the Save Games folder. It also won't update your save, though. So if you want to play with the changes, you need to start a new game.</p>
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This is always one of the first things I do with a new TEW but I've never been able to complete it. Is this the year? Using the CVerse 2005 mod. Did the random roll and then redistributed my 87 Sex Appeal. Feel like I got pretty lucky on the Entertainment skills but he's not much of a worker.
Can't wait for my vocal fan base to shit all over my precious Bailey!
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Acting is another one I rarely use. I would imagine it's for things like faking an injury. All angles are "acting" but this is specifically selling something outside of the ring. Fake injuries, fake crying, that kind of stuff. If a worker has to act sad because their fake girlfriend dumped them, that's acting. If Vince McMahon has to fake a foot injury, that's acting (until Stone Cold beats him over the head with a bedpan and then it's selling).
Selling is getting smashed. If a worker is just getting destroyed, that's selling.
Star Quality is the male version of sex appeal. I rarely use it because it doesn't come up much but if they're just looking at a picture of a guy and saying "wow! he looks amazing!" I could see it. If a guy goes into the middle and flexes his muscles, that's SQ. The difference I think is Charisma is about engaging the crowd and firing the crowd up while Star Quality is just "look at me!"
Sex Appeal: Duh. Looking sexy.
Menace: Looking mean. For a "backstage ambush" if it's an even fight, everyone is Fighting. If it's a classic "Monster Destroy" then it is Menace vs. Selling. Menace is also looking mean next to someone doing the talking.
I hope that clears everything up.
I tend to use Acting for segments that don't take place in front of the live crowd like Lucha Underground vignettes (ones where no one is being murdered anyway).
Star Quality isn't the male version of Sex Appeal. Sex Appeal is the male version of Sex Appeal. I think of Star Quality angles as being a good substitute for Overness if the guy isn't actually over. Like a video package hyping the next big thing. It's rating their 'wow' factor. So like a video hyping Finn Balor could be rated on Star Quality, but Finn Balor in person going all abs and doing finger guns? Sex Appeal baby.
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You and me, we're on the same page! But so far Small promotions being unable to afford him aren't the problem. In my long term sims, you end up with a bunch of small promotions with between 5 to 50 mil in the bank sitting pretty, and Londos has constant work.
Awesome! Just to clarify one thing -- it's not a matter of being unable to afford Londos. It's that Small promotions literally can't sign anyone that's over 80 in pop. The user will get a message that the worker feels the company is too small for them or, in the case of Londos, that he's outgrown the company. As most of his deals are set as Ongoing, this might have minimal impact for him. But there are other guys with high pop that might also be affected by this. (There might also be a timer built into the game where people are less picky the longer they're unemployed.)
Anyway, good stuff! And let me know if you need any help running tests! I can pretty much keep TEW going in the background all day (AND DO).
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Hey! You and I are on the same page here (I'm helping Biz with the Mod). I'm plucking away at an update that will more regionalize the popularity of the workers. That should make things more realistic and add a greater diversity to game play, since it won't be beneficial to hire the exact same workers regardless of where you start. Bugs, and company balances take priority, but it is coming! It's also slow going because I'm combing through each wrestler's history to see where they were active and where they weren't, and that takes time.
A couple things to keep in mind however, is that Londos will still, likely, be universally popular throughout America when this update comes out (with possible exceptions for PR and HI). The reason for this is wrestling was covered in all the major papers, talked about in the sports section of radio news broadcasts, and footage of the biggest bouts were shown before films on a national basis. In those papers, broadcasts and pre-film clips, Londos was always a major feature. What happened in the East dominated the conversation at that (and seemingly all) time(s), and Londos wasn't just the most famous wrestler in New York, he was the most famous wrestler in New York coming off of a triumphant return after pretty high profile split - during which he had gone on a national tour of his own. This made him the most famous wrestler in America at the absolute peak of his interest to dinner parties.
In 1933 alone, he personally travelled to every territory in America (save two, NW/NE) as well Ontario and Quebec. This doesn't mean that he didn't perform in the North West or New England, it just means I can't find a record of it, and again I remind you that's only the immediately prior year. At this stage of the game, Jim Londos didn't come to your town unless he was sure he was going to be drawing a big, big crowd.
With all that said, I agree there should be some variance in his popularity, but think spillover numbers would vastly understate his appeal. From a modding perspective, the question becomes, did Jim Londos not travel to the pacific north west because if he had he wouldn't have been able to draw enough of crowd to warrant it? Or was it the usual reason people don't come here, which is that it is the forest, and people don't want to go out of their way to be in a forest. This is where things become more art than science. I feel pretty confident that if Londos had traveled to PNW, his notoriety would have preceded him, and he would have drawn a pretty impressive gate.
Other things to remember are that the older legends, (I just did Stecher last night so he's on my mind) also would have been talked about on the radio, written about in the papers, and shown before the movies and talkies for twenty years prior. The Rolling Stones are not talked about weekly on national TV, but they still sell out every concert they hold (in non-apocalyptic times) because they have been exposed for decades prior and, comparably, constantly tour. Joe Stecher travelled to every single territory in America (except PR) over the previous decade. There's just no way to perceive him as anything but a national star.
But these exceptions apply to Londos, Stecher, Lewis... and maybe Steinke, DeGlane and Browning, I haven't looked yet, but essentially nobody else, although there were journeymen who maintained a level of popularity all across the US, but that's at a lower level.
According to Meltzer, Jim Londos was a bigger draw than Hulk Hogan ever was. His assessment is based on conversations with historians, and actual gates.
https://en.superluchas.com/meltzer-los-tres-luchadores-mas-influyentes-de-los-ultimos-25-anos/
etc
Although the ambiguities that result in comparing time periods, that Biz refers to, obviously exist.
Wow! Thanks for the awesome response. I love learning about this stuff. (Part of the reason I enjoy mods like this and Mammoth's 1970 one is because they send me down internet rabbit holes.) I was about to post about regionalizing popularity, so I'm glad that's something you guys are looking at. I don't doubt that Londos was extremely popular, but I do think you have to keep the game mechanics in mind so that Small promotions can actually sign him. Balancing something like this is a really difficult task, especially considering the game's limitations.
One more suggestion: I'd be careful with how you guys deploy the Movie Star trait. At least in TEW16, this could lead to some huge popularity boosts and should really be reserved for characters who are literally stars -- ie, leading men/women. Pretty soon you'll see a guy like Arthur De Kuh as one of the most popular workers in America. A guy like King Kong Kashey who did uncredited work as shirtless monsters in a handful of movies really shouldn't be getting broad boosts like that.
I'm also curious about the decision to go with Classic Balanced for Product vs something like Catch Wrestling. Feels too early to have these companies be running angles.
Anyway, just some random feedback as I mess around with this beauty. Hope it helps!
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<p>Awesome work! The presentation and attention to detail here is great. </p><p> </p><p>
After tooling around a bit, I do think you might want to have a look at worker popularity. A guy like Jim Londos is set to be 90 across America. From a historical standpoint, I don't think any wrestlers achieved that level of national notoriety during this time (this would be approaching 80s era Hogan popularity). I just don't feel it was possible to get there without TV. I'm no expert, though! Mechanically, having his pop set that high means he won't sign with any of the companies in the game. 80 US pop appears to be the cut-off for Small promotions. </p><p> </p><p>
Hope that doesn't come off as nitpicky. Great works; thanks for making it.</p>
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Just popping by to say these logos are awesome and that I think it's great you're doing affordable commissions.
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I don't think many of the wrestlers are likely to have much pop in America, where the show is being held, which probably explains more than any road agent notes do.
Yeah, but New Year's Dash was held in Japan. I'd expect his scores for that to be more like what Questlove posted. Anyway, some good advice here. And also the big caveat that conversions are screwy and mods aren't yet finished, so there's a lot of reasons for ratings to "make no sense."
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I think what they mean by that, is that the CVerse model of stats is what people try and strive for. It is how the game is designed to run based on the wrestlers in it. So when you have 20 guys at say 90-100 pop then it throws off the balance. Yes modders should try and strive for the real world or time period, but also keep in mind the balance of the workers so as to still make it a challenge and not unbalance the mod.
I like the CVerse, but I have a hard time seeing it as the model for all databases and I don't think that's how it's meant to be used. It's a set of numbers to run through the simulator, like any other. Now, those numbers have been adjusted to work with new features by the creator of those features, which always makes it seem to work cleaner than most mods at first, but eventually the community catches up. It's certainly not perfectly balanced or made to work immaculately. If it was, we wouldn't see issues like the ACPW fans booing half their rosters or all the stables splitting up.
On-topic...
Big problem is also when you use some of the lower members of Bullet Club or CHAOS for the six man with the big stars and the match goes 20 minutes + like you told me the game says they are overused? That's bs even people like Gedo and YOSHI-HASHI get in these main events in real life.Those six-man tags NJPW runs will get penalized, either from overusing the undercard guys or underuitilizing the top card guys. That seems logical to me? Like, you don't want those matches outshining the stuff at the top of the card that actually matters. I still think those scores you posted originally are a bit lower than I'd expect to see. What other penalties are you seeing in the road agent notes? What scores are you getting from the wrestlers individually?
(Also, if you feel like a mod has shorted somebody for stats, go into the editor and change it. There's no shame in it!)
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ShaunGBD" data-cite="ShaunGBD" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>In what way does it take longer? I don't see a real difference</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think some of this comes down to play style. For me, it's taking longer to book my shows because I like to book all my matches first and then add angles. This means I'm fiddling a lot with those arrows to move segments around. It's like a mini-game! Can I move this angle to the proper place in under a minute. </p><p> </p><p> Further, the angles the game starts with were haphazardly imported from 16 without any care for the new angle rules. So, I end up using free style angles, which are more time consuming. (This will be fixed now that there are some good angle packs coming out or I create my own, but I haven't wanted to expend the time doing that on a game I'm not sure I want to buy yet.)</p><p> </p><p> Finally, not being able to scroll through road agent notes with my mouse wheel slows me down. Fiddly stuff like double-clicking "Victor" resetting who I've selected from the drop-down. Basically, having to relearn screens in ways that aren't particularly intuitive. All that adds a lot of time to my booking.</p>
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It's meant to be a hardcore leaning fed that wouldn't have a lot of DQs and such in the first place. 'Cheap finish' refers to DQs and count outs.
Unless it's been changed recently, that product consequence also generates penalties for using a tainted finish. Having guys cheat to win should absolutely be a thing in Grindhouse Lucha.
I've posted about this before, but I think the range of Cheap Finish penalties need a good looking over.
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Kevin, I answered this when you posted it the first time around. In case you didn't see it, I'll repost:
Unless you've tweaked the range since I did some tests on this (admittedly way back in Beta #3), then the lengthy match penalty actually kicks in at minute 16. Effectively, this creates a product where fans are expecting all matches to be 15 minutes. That doesn't reflect any hardcore product that exists in reality and feels like needlessly restrictive game design.
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I tried a game with GSW, which is "Extreme Hardcore" and has a storyline called "Deathmatch drama," but fans don't like deathmatches. Also matches under 15 minutes are capped, and long matches are penalized. I booked a main event for 18 minutes and it was too long. Product definitions are definitely messed up and contradictory.
Yeah, the consequences on Extreme Hardcore look to be in error. The way it's set up now, all matches need to be 15 minutes or else they're capped or penalized. I assume that's accidental and the match cap for a product like this is meant to be more like 5 minutes.
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I wonder if an "and/or" filter might be added, so that when you are searching by skill, you could search for "60 Brawling" or "60 Technical", for example.
Sometimes I'm just looking for a wrestler with a "good look", and I don't really mind if it's SQ or Menace. On other occasions, I want someone with good top row stats, but I don't really mind if they're a technician or a brawler. Being able to reflect this in a single search would be really helpful.
An and/or filter would be nice. I, for one, miss the simple text descriptions in the search, where I could just pop in "Good Brawlers" or "Decent Charisma" etc.
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Yeah, there should really be an option to turn off NewGens. Some of the workarounds proposed in the Beta thread -- like deleting all the Free Pictures or not using any Dojos -- are pretty obtuse. Why should historical mod players be barred from using certain features when a simple toggle could be implemented? I want to have the NJPW Dojo set up and able to produce historically accurate workers, but not randoms that might usurp their spot in the game world. I want Free Pictures available in case I reach 2022 and decide I would now like to let NewGens start appearing.
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I'd still love a tool like Mod Maker+ in WMMA where you can get a straight overview of where people rank in each skill. A tool like that would be huge for the TEW modding community (who, frankly, have way more use for it than the WMMA boys). Still holding out hope that gets implemented. But yeah, at the very least expanding the in-game filters to the editor would be a welcome addition.
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Just a note that Start Variance is set to Medium to begin with, so anyone discussing stats viewed in-game might see the mod's numbers skewed by that.
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Has anyone seen any incidents that indicate a wrestler is dissatisfied with their position on the card? With pushes gone, I assume this comes in the combination of guys complaining about their recent booking and guys complaining about losses/being left off shows. I haven't seen any of this, but I also haven't run through nearly as many games as some people on here. Has anyone seen wrestlers get sick of being jammed in the midcard?
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Yeah, that's fair. You're right. And I would like to add that, for instance, the penalty for "nothing exciting going on" angles is absolutely a good penalty, and super intuitive and makes sense. I'd like to see more stuff like that where it's contextual. If you catch my drift.
100% Me too! Context is everything. Generally, I think the more popular/talented the performer, the more leeway they should have to break the rules. I do think the game tries to emulate this with bonuses, although I'm not sure how effective they are. Regardless, seeing those penalties can still be really frustrating.
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Alright. This is kind of a rant, but I try to have it be constructive. It's not any kind of an attack. Just some thoughts I've had for the longest time playing these games. And ones that have been escalated by the latest installment in the series.
I have always disagreed with the arbitrary caps and penalties around segment times in the TEW games. Matches shorter than 15min are capped, angles shorter than 6 minutes, matches longer than this, matches longer than that, this, that, the other thing. All of them.
My reason for this is simply that these caps and penalties don't at all take into account context. I don't think there's any rule in wrestling, TV, or entertainment in general about lengths of segments. No hard rule that in this form of entertainment a segment longer than X should be penalized or capped.
Simply because what truly matters is context; what actually takes place in the segment, and whether or not it's engaging, is what people care about. This extends to all forms of televised and live entertainment, but let's stick to wrestling.
I agree with the broader points here that there should be more flexibility in TEW's penalties, but this highlighted sentence in particular is really inaccurate. There are absolutely time restrictions/conventions on segment/scene length in all forms of entertainment. They exist because - right or wrong - the formulas have proven successful. Now, breaking with convention can yield a positive response from the audience (something I don't think TEW simulates very well), but it can also prove alienating (something TEW simulates a little too well).
From Deathmatch to Gory Hardcore. You sold out, Koichi Kajiwara. You sold out. This really grinds my gear as changing the product also halts popularity progression!
A New Trust: Jan 1934 Real Life Mod FULL RELEASE
in Total Extreme Wrestling 2020 Mods
Posted
Most mods do have some future workers in them although the quantity and quality varies greatly between mods. A New Trust in particular looks to cover a good amount of debuts in the 30s, but doesn't have a ton of guys beyond that. It sounds like the creators are working on adding more future workers though, which I'm excited about.
Generally, you'll find that some mods don't put a ton of effort into future workers because they know most players won't ever get that far, while other mods will have more detail. It's something that I always check in the Editor before I start because I like long games, but it might not matter for other players. You can also import yet-to-debut workers from another mod if you see that someone is missing, although if you're an anal psycho like me you will also have to spend time balancing their stats against the current mod.
Hope that helps!