tommyb

There was someone in the crowd, at TLC, with a sign saying "Elijah". I only saw them briefly, but I think it was actually Elijah Burke. I'm not suggesting that there's anymore to it than him watching a show, but it made me smile.

That sounds right. My mistake.

I think there was a moment when they were outside the ring when Orton said something which was blocked out. I'm no lip reader, but it was fairly obvious what he said. I think that was a necessary part of the ending. Cena had to be celebrating exuberantly to make the decision a shock. Also, at least for me, it added to the feeling that Punk (the heel) had stolen one.

This is what I've been thinking. He's really good at putting over guys at the same time as seemingly criticizing them.

It's a shame about the circumstances, but it is great to see JBL on commentary.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Slim Jim" data-cite="Slim Jim" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The botch on the top rope with Dolph Ziggler was awful; he could easily have injured one or both of them.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> To me it looked as though that could have been at least partly Ziggler's fault. I'll have to watch it again, but one of his feet seemed to slip off the turnbuckle just before they fell.</p><p> </p><p> Then again, the last superplex I executed was some time ago, and on a stuffed bear on my trampoline, so I'm not the best judge.</p>

Which may be why WWE likes to break up teams, before they start asking for more money.

Shucky ducky quack quack. Brock is back.

I'm guessing the Daniel Bryan loss was, as a couple of people have implied, setting up him to blame it on AJ and get really nasty. If that is the case, and it works out well, then I can get over not getting to see two of my favourite wrestlers go at it properly. I loved the HHH/Taker match. There were a couple of places where it was very slow, but I think that worked for it. I have to admit, I was wincing at every chair shot by the end. Taker was absolutely hammering HHH.

I think Eve.

It looks as though they may have been shaping up for Truth to tag with Kofi to compete for the tag titles. Although, is it confirmed whether or not there will be a Money in the Bank match? If so, that may explain what a few guys will be doing.

According to wikipedia he wrestled a tryout match at a taping of Superstars in September against Brodus Clay, under the name Joey Gray.

I saw these when you first put them in the render thread, but thought I'd comment again. These have added so much character to the generated workers in my game (I'm in 2018 in one game at the moment so that's becoming pretty important). Thanks very much.

I literally have no idea what to think about that.

Written in relation to something else, but highly relevant to the CM Punk vs John Cena match. The storyline got people so invested in the characters and the outcome of the match, that the 'quality' wrestling match itself was a secondary concern. I think it definitely deserved 5* for the overall package.

Loving this segment.

My first thought is John Laurinaitis getting HHH out of the way.

I don't think it is necesarily about needing the belt to stay over. Sometimes, especially as a face, it is better to be chasing the title than to be holding it. Think about Orton, I think he was probably hotter before he won the belt last year than he was when he was holding it. Just being in the title picture, as a realistic threat not as a one-off challenger, is often just as good for getting/staying over as holding the championship. The thing is, because Cena's character is presented as being so strong, when he gets in the title picture it is harder to keep the title off him than it is to keep it off other guys. Even Orton, who is booked very strongly, is currently being presented as having a major weakness (anger management) which was used to get the title off him for a while. I'm a little surprised that the list doesn't seem to show much correlation between face/heel divide and length of title reigns. I would have thought that you would see faces having lots of short reigns, and heels having longer reigns, because the most interesting storylines often focus around the face's quest to gain the title against the insurmountable odds of the heel champion. However, at first glance that doesn't seem to be the case. I guess that is offset by the benefits of having a face at the top of the mountain to benefit merchandise sales, etc.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="soxfan93" data-cite="soxfan93" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><em>Was</em>. He isn't anymore.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't think any of us really know what any worker is like. Without having spent hours backstage at a WWE event we don't know what is and isn't acceptable. When we hear that 'Worker A' did something to 'Worker B' and decide 'Worker A' is a bad person, we don't really know that 'Worker B' hadn't been pushing 'Worker A' over the edge for a while.</p><p> </p><p> Even when a respected insider (or multiple insiders) who's judgment we trust says something about a worker in an interview we don't know how accurate it is. They could be coming off working several hard shows, a couple of extensive fan appearances, and another difficult interview with a dick of a radio show host, and then had 'X' accidentally do something to annoy them, so when 'X' is mentioned in the interview they may be more critical than they would normally be.</p><p> </p><p> Moreover, we can't judge workers based off how they treat fans (unless they do something really over the top). A worker who isn't really very nice may be very good at putting it on for the fans, and a worker who is actually a great guy may not be so comfortable slipping into a rapport with random strangers and so the fans get a false impression of both guys.</p><p> </p><p> Finally, in an industry that is bound to have a lot of egos, people competing directly against eachother for spots, and coming from many different backgrounds and areas, there is always going to be a clash of personalities. Two wrestlers who are both really great guys may get on badly, and instantly people want to say that one of them is great and a victim of the other's dickishness, when in reality they are just two guys who don't really like eachother forced into a high pressure environment together on a regular basis.</p><p> </p><p> In short, what I'm unnecessarily trying to say is, we all know how stories change over time and how different people tell the same story in a completely different way. We all know how someone can get along poorly with one person who has a lot of influence and suddenly several other people turn on them too for very little reason. Therefore, we really have very little idea what any wrestlers we don't know personally are actually like, even when we think we have the inside scoop.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Basmat01" data-cite="Basmat01" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I was on WWEshop website lookin to buy me a CM Punk shirt and all of anything CM Punk were sold out</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This is good as it shows that Punk is getting more over and improving his sales. However, I think we need to retain a sense of perspective over it. I read somewhere (possibly not on this forum, and not implying that anyone here is saying it) that since Punk's new shirt sold out very quickly he's now a threat to Cena as the top merchandise seller. Hopefully that could prove to be true in the long term, but for now the WWE and their affiliates are, I would expect, making a hell of a lot more merchandise for Cena than Punk. Punk may sell out 'x' amount of merchandise, but Cena (even when not sold out) is still selling '2x' merchandise because they create a lot more for him than anyone else because he sells more.</p>

I agree. Whatsmore, if the anonymous GM just goes away, the idea can always be brought back later if needed to introduce a new authority (not what a lot of people would want, but always best to keep options open), which wouldn't be the case if it was given closure by making a reveal which wouldn't be that good (unless they could get someone good in).

I very much agree. I thought Henry vs Show was very entertaining.

In the heat of the moment I got over excited and was half expecting Y2J. Deep down I knew it wasn't him, but just the thought of it made JR's return (which I do think is good) seem a little less exciting.

He's just about been a heel throughout this whole thing, despite the pops and popularity with the internet and hometown crowd. I see it as, It's not so much his job to draw, as to help someone else draw. By getting a lot of heat, in the long term he can help a babyface get over and become a bigger draw themselves, and I certainly think that he's getting heat.

I am, aren't I? That's not the point I meant to get across though. All I mean is that a large proportion of the WWE's viewers aren't actually that interested in the WWE or invested in the product. Here I'm talking directly about the younger viewers who are, due to merchandise sales, probably WWE's most important target audience. Maybe I'm way off, but when I was young and first watching WWE, me and my friends didn't watch WWE every week, we just watched it when we remembered that it was on, or when we turned on the TV and it was there, or when there was a particular reason to do so. Therefore, I often didn't know what was going on storyline-wise. I just knew that I liked -insert wrestler 1- and didn't like -insert wrestler 2- and wanted to see -insert wrestler 1- win. Storylines and continuity are interesting in themselves for the older fan, but for children they are a vehicle to deliver interesting one-off matches and angles. I'm not trying to call anyone stupid (though I'm not saying that's not often the case), I'm just (partially to play devil's advocate to complaints that CM Punk is back too soon) saying that for a large part of the audience who just want something to watch on a Monday night, absence is as good as irrelevance. That's also why I think people put too much emphasis on the TV viewing ratings. The ratings don't always go up and down with the quality of the product (with the possible exception of a big appearance meaning that people who hear about it switch over briefly to see what's going on), because the casual fan merely watches Raw or SD if they're home and watching TV and it happens to be on, but if they're not, heck, hopefully they'll get to see Cena (or whoever their favourite may be) win next week.