Would you...... ??

[Zobeto227]

..... Bend the realist rules enough to bring in a popular superstar who has been unemployed for over 3 months?! I'm 100% a realist when it comes to these games and really only play with the Cornellverse as it allows me a lot more room for creativity (plus I've come to really like some of the characters). I updated USPW before my game to a more SE kind of company (Heavy on Sports Entertainment however without the risque portion like SWF has to keep it it's own brand of wrestling versus being SWF-lite), and stocked the roster with some new workers who I could see potentially fitting the USPW vibe (Genghis Rahn, Eric Tyler, Pistol Pete Hall & a created superstar named "Mr. America".) The thing is, Skull DeBones was not renewed when his contract ran up and has been unemployed for about 3 months now. No one seems to be wanting him... However, I would LOVE to bring him into the company (I mean, He's not doing anything right now and I would hate to see a character like DeBones sit on his couch all year long doing nothing, when I could really use him to get to Cult). SOOOO.... I was thinking about bending the realism rules a tad to bring in DeBones... However, throw the bank at him... Like potentially 2,000 dollars an appearance (making it around 8,000 dollars a month... Potentially making him the most paid superstar in all of the industry by the end of the year as I plan on using him all the time), giving him a PPV incentive of another 1,000 or so, giving him creative control & my word that he will win the USPW World Title sometime during his contract..... Kinda like a "Kurt Angle Effect". However, he is an A in popularity and probably won't even talk to me at all. So I was thinking of bending those realistic rules by dropping his overness down to nothing... Signing a contract and then going into the contract edit portion and adding all the extras & the big time money. Do you think that's cheating?! I know that at my level I shouldn't be able to "get a worker like that", however, we've seen in real life stuff like this happen... and It's not like im stealing him away from a company who wants him on the roster... He's been let go and now has been doing nothing for months. He'd still be under a PPA contract so he could leave if he wanted to go back to the SWF, and I would re-name him something close to Skull DeBones not to "infringe on copyrights" (All about the realism). So, do you think thats cool?! Just wanted to know.

[Senka Surakei]

I think that's totally fine, that was one of the small things that irritated me in TEW. Yeah, so if you were a backyard federation asking Triple H to come wrestle at your show, he'd flat out say no, but that's not how it works! They check your offer, no matter what, so yes, I say do it, but make sure you make it fair, meaning you're making him WANT the offer. =)

[Zobeto227]

[QUOTE]I say do it, but make sure you make it fair, meaning you're making him WANT the offer. =)[/QUOTE] Thanks for the response man. Yea, I plan on making it realistic in the sense of pretty much throwing him everything to join the company. He'll probably end up as the highest paid superstar after the year runs out as he's going to have a hefty PPA agreement & then travel expenses, PPV bonus, Creative Control, World Title agreement & will probably even give him 30 - 35% of merchandising (Which is BIG TIME in my eyes as most of "main event" workers max out at 15%). This way I don't feel guilty about the deal and really will be giving up hardcore incentives to wrestle for my company versus sitting on his couch.

[Guest Ransik]

I'm not even sure why people need to "be real" when they play the game. It's game... do what YOU want.

[Zobeto227]

[QUOTE]I'm not even sure why people need to "be real" when they play the game. It's game... do what YOU want.[/QUOTE] True. But if you take the realism out of it then it's not really fun for some people. ya know?! It's the same thing with Madden. If you want more of a "real experience" then you have certain little things you have to abide by. Yes, these games are made for fun... however... Sometimes you want that fun to mirror what could really happen instead of living in a fantasy world. haha

[d_w_w]

In some cases, you can make the argument that people really do step away from wrestling for a good deal of time and are seemingly unemployed. In that regard, it makes sense that the person wouldn't sign a contract with a company that he or she felt was too small. However, as time goes on, it seems more and more plausible that the worker would be willing to accept contracts from smaller companies. And given the fact that the USPW has considerable financial backing and star power, it doesn't seem unrealistic that after three months of no contract offers from TCW or SWF that Debones would at least listen to USPW offers. And given that you plan on giving him a great offer with an out (as you said it would be PPA), I'd say that it's fine. In real life, he'd be a bonehead to not take such an offer (unless, of course, there were outside reasons for him not wanting to join the USPW... weird personality conflicts, personal issues, or whatever...), given that he'd be making a ton of money and could leave and join the "big leagues" anytime the opportunity came up.

[Zobeto227]

Yea that's what I'm thinkin' D_W_W. If the contract was edited so he didn't have an out and he was making literally nothing then I would feel like I was cheating the system overall... However, in the end... He'll end up making more money with me than he EVER would with SWF or TCW... As I think he was probably making somewhere in the 20,000 dollars over x number of months region... Where as in USPW he could potentially end up with... + PPA Agreement of 3,000 an appearance? (Times 24 months + 4 Shows a Month on TV = 288,000 dollars) + Merchandising of 30 - 35% (Not sure on the exact number but I could see it being quite large for a worker as popular as him) + PPV Bonus of 1,000 a PPV Show (Don't have a PPV contract yet, but let's say I get one after 6 months... That leaves 18 months = 18,000 dollars) With a total income (without knowledge of merchandising) coming out to around [B]306,000[/B]! In terms of the Cornellverse, That's a crazy amount of cash for a Superstar who has been let go from the Biggest company in the world.

[Derek B]

I consider it cheating as there are already plenty of big name workers without jobs in real life who would turn down smaller promotions, although admittedly it would likely be for the money more than anything else. However, if you were a good sized promotion already (I'm thinking a strong cult promotion with good prestige) then I wouldn't mind bending the rules somewhat. As it it, you're a regional promotion trying to sign one of the biggest stars in the country at the time which to me would push the boundaries of realism somewhat. I think it's good that you're trying to stretch his contract a lot, but guys at that level of overness tend to want a PPA of at least 3500 per appearance with a 3100 downside (in case of injuries, perhaps higher for DeBones working a small company) plus perks although they would never normally sign that in the game as at that overness they would want a written deal. It seems like you are at Regional level just now so I would think it's a stretch for him to work for you but it's your game. I myself frequently cheat (and I always call it that :)) in my own games because I want something to be slightly different or to go in my favour and it's always up to you how you play your own game. In time, Skull will lose overness for being unemplyed for too long anyway and may come to your promotion naturally. It takes time but I think as USPW you can probably get there. Heck, if you've already "updated" their product barely a few months after Sam Strong took over the company (why do so many people do that?) then you're probably able to book better shows anyways. My hint for USPW... use Sam Strong. He's always going to be over. Many people forget that lower carders LOSING to Bruce the Giant and Sam Strong in the early going will gain overness. Use tht in your favour and you can breed stars like there's no tomorrow. Derek B

[Zobeto227]

First off, Thanks for the opposing view Derek. I'm kicking around whether or not I want to go about doing this, but I think in the end... I love his character so much that I want him part of my new USPW and not just sitting there doing nothing. ya know?! It's true that there are some big names out there who don't wrestle for smaller companies even if they would throw them the bank, but at the same time... You see instances of people making the jump (Angle, Cage, and Sting... But I know that TNA is somewhat of a larger company in TEW terms). Even Jericho said he wouldn't rule out ROH as a possible company to wrestle for... It's all about what you prefer. So who knows. [QUOTE](why do so many people do that?)[/QUOTE] Because Old-School 80's Kayfabe can be kinda boring. haha. I wanted to simulate, in a sense, the rise of WCW when they moved from a small regional company to something of a phenomenon. So, I had to tweak them a little. PLUS, It says in the USPW bio that the former owner "took it as far as he could".. So I took that as, He realized that his brand of wrestling was kind of only "wading in the water" and Sam Strong came in to "build an actual contender to the SWF". So, with that being said, Strong (being a smart business man in my mind... As you can't get as big as he is and not have a clue. haha) came in with an idea to build the company with his direction (Which is up to you to think of what that might be). To me... That means more of an update, however, not raising stuff like Risque'ness at all (as someone his age and stature in wrestling wouldn't really think of such of a thing as being "Ideal" for his own brand). Long answer, but ohh well. I'm bored. haha.

[Derek B]

Strong has had USPW in his power since August 06, I figure by January 07 he'd have made whatever product changes he wanted over those 5 months. :) I've already posted in the suggestions forums that I think contracts need an overhauling already in order to help... everyone really. I don't think an A popular worker would sign for a regional promotion unless the money was phenomenal and the contract was a PPA. As I said already, you've got a rough idea of what they're looking for but with the SWF he'd probably make over 24 month something like.... 25,000 per month (guaranteed on written deal): TOTAL= $400,000 Merchandise about 20 or 25%: TOTAL unknown, but lots due to larger promotion Travel Costs (guaranteed) PPV Bonus: Not sure I can't remember what other things workers of that level want but that sounds about right. A guaranteed title run for him sounds good too. At his overness that's what I'd give him But one question... how do you push Skull as a character. I always have problems pushing him because I can never decide how to use him. Best plans I've had are using him as a kind of karma. If someone attacks someone else, Skull attacks them. If someone helps someone, Skull helps them himself. But I struggle to use him in any other way so I'd be interested to know how you use him. :) Derek B

[Zobeto227]

[QUOTE]25,000 per month (guaranteed on written deal): TOTAL= $400,000[/QUOTE] Oh, I was thinking that the contracts ran like sports contracts. So when I saw 25,000 dollars with 16 months.. I thought that meant they made 25,000 dollars over that time frame. I see now that it's a monthly thing, So in that case I would have to bump Skull's PPA to somewhere around 6,000 dollars an appearance with a downside of something like 10,000 dollars a month? (May sound like too much but If I was someone like Skull.. I'd want to know that if I got hurt atleast I would make something decent. It wouldn't be how much he would make if he was working, but that's understandible). [QUOTE]But one question... how do you push Skull as a character. I always have problems pushing him because I can never decide how to use him. Best plans I've had are using him as a kind of karma. If someone attacks someone else, Skull attacks them. If someone helps someone, Skull helps them himself. But I struggle to use him in any other way so I'd be interested to know how you use him. [/QUOTE] When i first started playing TEW I thought Skull was just a filler on my roster. I never really pushed him and always had my younger workers go over him, but in '07 I've really taken a likening to his character. This kind of Avenging Angel with an Undertaker'esk kind of persona. Pretty much I have him as this supernatural character with un-natural power (Ie: Like old-school Taker when a punch from him would send someone reeling across the ring). A lot of hype angles (Like they do for Taker), some taped promos (Thinking then they could create the persona's vibe much easier then if he was live infront of the fans) & Phenom attacks on people who do him wrong. -- In my last SWF game (which sadly enough I lost) Skull worked a program with Marc DuBois where DuBois wanted to "Destroy the Overrated Skull DeBones". DuBois was the pompous young heel who was sick of DeBones getting so much credit even though "he wasn't half the wrestler that DuBois is".Marc DuBois with the help of a tag team called "The Misfits" ended up attacking DeBones and leaving him for paramedics... Kinda stripping away the "persona" for a second and making him look like a real person. However, then DuBois had a lot of mystery angles where he was left in the dark... Attacked by someone?... and Things disappearing on him. In the end, DuBois came back... Attacked DuBois and ended up getting over him at the PPV. (Boosting DuBois's popularity from a C to B-). So needless to say, I pushed him as a powerhouse supernatural who can hardly be stopped. An Undertaker-esk kind of character who is seemingly the living dead in some ways.

[Cduffy26]

Personally I don't see that as cheating, although I do see it as sort of bending the rules. I've done things like this before (When Kennedy left WWE and when Sting left WCW in my games) with Regional and Cult promotions, and then totally bloated their salary. The only thing is that I usually wait anywhere from 5 to 6 months before I sign them, basically giving them a brief hiatus (Much like RVD in real life).

[Zobeto227]

[QUOTE]I usually wait anywhere from 5 to 6 months before I sign them[/QUOTE] I may end up doing that. As of right now I don't really "need" him, so I may wait a while before I have a spot for him to come in at. However, at the same time... I know sooner or later I'll end up getting to excited about possibly bringing him into USPW and end up signing him anyways in a shorter time frame. haha. Not going to lie.:)

[d_w_w]

[QUOTE=derek_b;287461]Strong has had USPW in his power since August 06, I figure by January 07 he'd have made whatever product changes he wanted over those 5 months. :) [/QUOTE] This is a fair point and the reason why I started my USPW diary off by giving Sam Strong a head injury. The issue, for me, is that I actually like a lot of the old time wrestlers that the USPW starts with (and love Bruce!), but am bored to tears by their product.

[Derek B]

My latest SWF game was the first time I really managed to get into Skull's character too. While he's not likely to get into the real main title contention he is one of the biggest names on my roster and has managed to get over by helping out people who act good (the faces, mostly) and punishing those wh odo bad (the heels, mostly). His main storyline after 9 months of game time is the heel turn of Steve Frehley, who had been feuding with Runaway Train in the early part of the year. Train was running riot backstage under Guru's orders and Frehley needed help, which Skull was glad to help with. Frehley was the guy who wrested the SWF title from Train (in April) but lost it to Rich Money in May. Frustrated, Frehley started taking his "Dark Destroyer" nickname too far and Skull stepped in to stop him turning to the darkside. Frehley snapped and the two are embroiled in a feud just now with Skull trying to save Frehley, and Frehley trying to get himself back into contention for the world belt (now held by Remo who has turned face). Remo and Frehley have also been involved in several matches (a couple of those reaching A* thanks to chemistry) and their next clash is billed as The Destroyer (Remo's finisher) vs The Dark Destroyer (Frehley's nickname). It's a long, complicated story with a large cast, I like my interweaving plots. :) I've also tried pushing Skull like Undertaker but I like my wrestlers to... well, wrestle more. Never can book Undertaker in rael world mods either. As for USPW, I also don't really like their product. While it has no hardcore (might be very low) most of their uppercard roster are brawlers who are better at hardcore rather than brawling. :( It's a difficult product, no doubt but you can succeed if you bring in guys like Jungle Jack and Jack Griffith (to brawl), Steve Flash (to do it all) and youngsters like Mainstream Hernandez and Shooter Sean Deeley, you've got a good base of talent. I paired Flash with Mainstream in a tag team that saw Mainstream grow in leaps and bounds while also putting together a fun military themed stable based around Sgt Bubba Lee West, Corporal Doom and Captain USA (heel turn) taking on recruits. The recruits were all promising youngster but they paid their dues by jobbing frequently until they graduated, quit or eventually got promoted. Cameron Vessey made Corporal after Doom left me for TCW :) Then Vessey and Sgt left for SWF shortly afterwards and I failed to recruit Guide to be Sgt Barrowman. The unit disbanded shortly after. :( USPW is fun! Lots of silly stories can be played out if you have the right mind for it and don't mind keeping Bruce on top of the pile. He had great chemistry with Redwood in my game and the two could pull out B rated matches. I didn't know whether to be happy or sad. Derek B

[Anubis]

I say do it, and either give him a lot of money or give him a Written contract. Written contracts should not [i]need[/i] a high level necessarily; look at ROH, they gave Bryan Danielson a Written contract, and they would barely be Cult. Anyway, there are plenty of times when former WCW and WWE people went to smaller companies. I would say no smaller than two sizes below where they would normally sign to be sure, but it would not really be cheating unless you cheated him out of getting what he deserves in a contract.

[Zobeto227]

[QUOTE]USPW is fun! Lots of silly stories can be played out if you have the right mind for it and don't mind keeping Bruce on top of the pile[/QUOTE] I agree man. USPW is a fun place to book storylines (I moved the product to 70% Matches for Storylines to be utilized), as it allows you to be a little more "off the wall" than serious. However, I found it hard to really stay dedicated to the product and the company with such a crappy initial roster. So that's why I updated it, and that's why I thought of the Idea with Skull if no one wanted him. I like the stable idea you had. Very good idea for bringing up new workers, and like you.. I've also picked up people like Mainstream Hernandez and plan on putting him into the tag team realm... Not really sure with who?! Maybe another good entertainment based worker and start a "rockers" type tag team?! Who knows. Anyways, I agree. USPW is a lot of fun to book... Even though I updated some things to make it more of an SE Product through and through... I still left Risque at "none" and realism at "none" as I wanted it to be more of a Kayfabe older 80's style... But with some new looks on the product to make it more accessible to build a roster!

[Zobeto227]

[QUOTE]I say do it, and either give him a lot of money or give him a Written contract. Written contracts should not need a high level necessarily; look at ROH, they gave Bryan Danielson a Written contract, and they would barely be Cult. Anyway, there are plenty of times when former WCW and WWE people went to smaller companies. I would say no smaller than two sizes below where they would normally sign to be sure, but it would not really be cheating unless you cheated him out of getting what he deserves in a contract.[/QUOTE] Thanks man. Yea, I'm thinking in the end I'm going to do it. Rather than a written contract though I kind of want to give him an out or SWF/TCW the chance to take him if possible. From a realism standpoint, Someone like Skull would probably not want to keep himself locked down by a small regional based company.... He'd like to have the option to jump for bigger money & bigger fame (again) if he had the chance.

[Anubis]

Good point. I don't know much about CornellVerse, so I didn't make the connection. That is one big difference with Bryan Danielson, in that Danielson isn't very well known outside wrestling purests.

[FINisher]

I really don't understand editing from the Editor.. Never done it, never will. Not promotion popularity/prestige, money, or workers overness. But, it's your game do whatever you want :D But I think that "acting God" in a game just kills the game and the fun etc.