Your Top Cards

[RingofHonorGuard]

This was my last show. I'm using the Tap and Snap Mod with some other fighters I did stats for added in. UFC 97: Marching Onward (2010) Jeremy Stephens def. Roger Huerta via TKO(***) Roman Mitichyan def. Akihiro Gono via Decision(***) Demian Maia def. Nate Marquardt via Decision(***) Mauricio "Shogun" Rua def. Jason Lambert via KO(***) Andrei Arlovski def. Brock Lesnar via KO(****) Marcus Aurelio def. Hayato Sakurai via Submission(***) Anderson Silva def. Thiago Silva via KO(****) Wanderlei Silva def. Forrest Griffin via KO(****) Tim Sylvia def. Mirko Filipovic via decision(*****) Ben Saunders def. Shinya Aoki via decision to retain UFC Welterweight title(*****) ---------------- You're looking and thinking... Ben Saunders, main eventing? WTF? Yeah, me too. I didn't use him for 7 months and then I booked him against Rich Clementi as a filler match in late 2008, and he won by submission. I thought "hmm..." and gave him another fight against fellow TUF 6 competitor Dan Barrera. Another Saunders win. So then I give him a bit of a test against James Lee, who I'd been grooming. Saunders KO's him in 30 seconds. O_o. So, obviously the plans to groom James Lee went out the window and went to grooming Saunders. Put him up against Luke Cummo, and my heart was beating like crazy because Cummo was beating him the first two rounds, then with 3 seconds to go Saunders KO's him with a head kick. From there he went on to beat Sean Sherk(who had just moved back up to Welterweight) by KO, smashed Mike Swick for the Welterweight title, and then put on that gem of a performance against Shinya Aoki. He's one of my most over guys right now and I'm actually scared for when he loses... ---------- Oh and incase you were wondering here are my current champions: Heavyweight: Vladimir "The Janitor" Matyushenko(defeated Cro Cop for the title) -successfully defended against Brad Imes(went on a monster win strike like Ben Saunders, including beating Tim Sylvia) Light Heavyweight: Michael "The Count" Bisping(defeated Chuck Liddell for the title) Middleweight: Kendall "Da Spyder" Grove(defeated Matt Lindland for the title) Welterweight: Ben Saunders(def. Mike Swick for the title) -successfully defended against Shinya Aoki Lightweight: Thiago Tavares(defeated Marcus Aurelio for the title)

[Gertbeef]

Shinya Aoki losing to Ben Saunders make me a sad panda. :(

[Cro_Cop45]

Same, even funnier is Vladimir "The Janitor" Matyushenko over Cro Cop. Then again, the way Mirko is fighting...

[RingofHonorGuard]

I don't consider Matyushenko beating Mirko to be that much of an upset. The Janitor is a hell of an athlete with a great professional record. Though he's been more successful since his shift to a light heavyweight, I'd think he'd still be able to hold his own against most heavyweights... and yes, in the game when he beat Mirko... Mirko was on a big winning streak with KO victories over Herring, Nogueira, and Keith Jardine(moved up to Heavyweight without me noticing, the sneaky Golum looking bastard... I punished him.)

[MCscratchNsniff]

Wow, I haven't tried the mod yet, but the TUF fighters are wayyyyy too overrated.

[syndicate]

[QUOTE=Cro_Cop45;336990]Same, even funnier is Vladimir "The Janitor" Matyushenko over Cro Cop. Then again, the way Mirko is fighting...[/QUOTE] matyushenko is a far better fighter then kongo or gonzaga

[ACCBiggz]

[QUOTE=MCscratchNsniff;337056]Wow, I haven't tried the mod yet, but the TUF fighters are wayyyyy too overrated.[/QUOTE] You have to take into account it's 2010 and the changes it's made in his card. Especially with Saunders. He didn't just throw Saunders into big match-ups, that gave him time to improve through his camps. Not to mention over the course of time each individuals game will take on different shapes thanks to the random things that can happen in MMA and in the game. But if you think that, we ask that you go to the Tap and Snap thread and post specifics so that we can look into it, just saying someone is overrated or underrated isn't going to do it. And you saying you haven't tried it yet is another factor. It have to look at the whole picture with certain things happening, including the progression of fighters over time through their camps.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Actually, Ben Saunders starts with very realistic stats. But due to his camp being one of the top teams(no pun intended) he developed into a great fighter. Forrest Griffin, who was also a TUF'er, has done the same thing so why is it so unrealistic for Ben Saunders, over the progression of 2 1/2 years to become a good fighter? People do progress, as people also regress. Keep that in mind.

[Gertbeef]

[QUOTE=RingofHonorGuard;337157]Actually, Ben Saunders starts with very realistic stats. But due to his camp being one of the top teams(no pun intended) he developed into a great fighter. Forrest Griffin, who was also a TUF'er, has done the same thing so why is it so unrealistic for Ben Saunders, over the progression of 2 1/2 years to become a good fighter? People do progress, as people also regress. Keep that in mind.[/QUOTE] Well to be fair Griffin was a pretty accomplished fighter before going into TUF, so he had quite a leg up on someone like Saunders. He'd already beat Monson and Travis Fulton, and had fought against a couple other tough guys like Horn. That was back when UFC didn't have to dig too deep to find real talent that hadn't become mainstream yet. Now, it's a big tougher. I'm on the fence. I was expecting before the demo that I could not possibly get into the default data and would have to wait for the real life mods to come out to enjoy it. I've played a few of the real life ones now and it's hard to step back and accept some of the oddities. I believe it was my first card with one of the real life mods and I saw Chuck submit Wandy in something like 35 seconds. That was a little hard to swallow. It's not the mod makers fault at all, and they're doing awesome work. It's just how the game works, and the fact that with real fighters you know exactly how they fight and oddities stick out a lot more. Maybe I'll learn to just suck it up and play though.

[ACCBiggz]

[QUOTE]and the fact that with real fighters you know exactly how they fight and oddities stick out a lot more. [/QUOTE] You may know some of their tendencies, but the beauty of MMA is you never know what is going to happen. We've seen strikers randomly shoot in and go for a sub and vice versa. And over periods of the game when they are training in camps they get better in certain areas so their gameplan may change, you can't expect things to stay the same in a game or in real life. [QUOTE]I believe it was my first card with one of the real life mods and I saw Chuck submit Wandy in something like 35 seconds. That was a little hard to swallow.[/QUOTE] That either was not our mod or the number one most random event to ever occur.

[Brush With Greatness]

[QUOTE=ACCBiggz;337466]That either was not our mod or the number one most random event to ever occur.[/QUOTE] Followed by the second most random event to ever occur: [QUOTE]Tim Sylvia def. Mirko Filipovic via decision[B](*****)[/B][/QUOTE]

[JMimic]

[QUOTE=Brush With Greatness;337512]Followed by the second most random event to ever occur:[/QUOTE] The way Cro Cop has fought lately it wouldn't surprise me. I just had Wandy KO Chuck in about 3 minutes in the first round.

[RingofHonorGuard]

I think he might have been referring to the fact that it got five stars for a Tim Sylvia decision(with him winning). As for the statements about unrealism, I disagree. This isn't professional wrestling and anything really can happen. No one expected or gave Matt Serra a chance in the world to beat GSP, let alone Highlight Reel TKO him. No one would have fathomed the idea of Gabe Gonzaga Cro Copping "Cro Cop"... or Cheick Kongo ball-kneeing his way to a decision over him. As for Forrest having skills before he went into TUF, yeah, his stand up was above-average and he had an average ground game. But if you compare the Forrest from old to the one from now, it's like looking at two different people. I guarentee you Forrest Pre-TUF would have been turned to dog**** in twenty-thirty seconds by Shogun. Since Randy has been working with Griffin he's improved ten-fold, almost to the point that I'm picking him to go over Rampage. Ben Saunders had arguably the third amount of experience on TUF 6, maybe not by way of fights but his camp and being around good athletes and learning from them. He was with ATT for a good while before he went on that show. So, I stick with my initial thought on it: people get better when they're around better people for periods of time.

[Gertbeef]

[QUOTE=RingofHonorGuard;337568]I think he might have been referring to the fact that it got five stars for a Tim Sylvia decision(with him winning). As for the statements about unrealism, I disagree. This isn't professional wrestling and anything really can happen. No one expected or gave Matt Serra a chance in the world to beat GSP, let alone Highlight Reel TKO him. No one would have fathomed the idea of Gabe Gonzaga Cro Copping "Cro Cop"... or Cheick Kongo ball-kneeing his way to a decision over him. As for Forrest having skills before he went into TUF, yeah, his stand up was above-average and he had an average ground game. But if you compare the Forrest from old to the one from now, it's like looking at two different people. I guarentee you Forrest Pre-TUF would have been turned to dog**** in twenty-thirty seconds by Shogun. Since Randy has been working with Griffin he's improved ten-fold, almost to the point that I'm picking him to go over Rampage. Ben Saunders had arguably the third amount of experience on TUF 6, maybe not by way of fights but his camp and being around good athletes and learning from them. He was with ATT for a good while before he went on that show. So, I stick with my initial thought on it: people get better when they're around better people for periods of time.[/QUOTE] Yeah I'm fine with the upsets and off the wall stuff. I'm just concerned with the frequency. I'm just talking hypothetically here btw, I haven't played with real world data enough to say much. I just noticed from a few things that it has the capabilities of bugging the crap out of me whereas fictional fighters can't really have that effect. I suppose by the time I've got to 2010 in a game and seen the growth of fighters over those several years it'd be easier to handle, but just seeing Ben Saunders beat Shinya Aoki out of the blue is pretty jarring to me. It'll be interesting to see how they progress, as Saunders is a huge lanky kid and seems to have some skill, but I wasn't very impressed with his fights. He fought Barrera twice who looks to have no technical skills at all, and really nothing going for him but heart and toughness, and he couldn't finish. He has to hugely improve his takedown defense as well, as it's a joke right now. Who knows though a few years down the road, but seeing as how he's the same age as Aoki and Aoki is light years ahead of him now, I'd be more shocked than Serra over GSP if that upset happened. You never know though. I just don't see how Forrest beats Rampage personally. I like him, and think he's a fun fighter to watch but I don't think he does anything better than Rampage, well he's got better subs but I don't think that'll be the deciding factor. I don't see him outstriking Rampage, I don't see him outwrestling him, I'm just not sure what he can do. I guess if he can get Rampage to gas, but Rampage has showed some pretty solid cardio as well. I think the only chance is if Rampage somehow gets Shogun Syndrome and just doesn't prepare for the fight, and I don't think there's any chance that Juanito lets that happen. I still have to wonder what Jardine is thinking about this. He knocked Forrest out, beat Chuck..and gets what? Granted I think he has less of a chance against Page than Forrest does, but it's still messed up. I guess with the next season of TUF it was the best money-maker for them. Well that got off the main topic! I just enjoy having a place to discuss MMA that isn't some absurd flamefest like Sherdog so I take advantage of it.

[RingofHonorGuard]

I like Shinya Aoki as much as the next guy but he hasn't really proven himself yet, in my eyes. He lost to Sakurai very decisively, and his biggest win is over Joachim Hansen, who has had a really bad string of luck lately. Aoki has a sick submission game but he's not as well-rounded as people think he is. Of course, if he beats JZ, I'll eat my hat and praise him as being great. I still think we've got a lot to learn about PRIDE/K-1 fighters. I'm not a fan of organizations at all, I support MMA as a whole, but I do strongly believe that there's different levels of competition. And regardless of what Sherdog would have people believe, UFC has the biggest talent pool in the world right now. And I will use the argument that PRIDE protected a lot of its talent all the way to the grave because I honestly believe that. If you look at Aoki's record, he's 11-2. Not bad, but the majority of the people he's beaten are cans that have victories only over other cans. Kikuchi, Hansen, and Sakurai were his only real tests professionally. He beat Kikuchi x 2, both very close in my opinion. Sakurai dominated him(like he does most), and he gogoplata'd Hansen, which was impressive. But we'll see on New Year's just how good he is. ---- Back to the subject at hand, in the 3 years I've been running the game there's really only been 4 fights that have made me groan and go "OH COME ON!" *Brad Imes beating Tim Sylvia(which isn't as far fetched as some of these I guess). *Serra losing the Welterweight title to Mike Swick after Serra beat Hughes, GSP in a rematch, and Fitch. *Chuck losing to Jardine again, by decision. *The Janitor beating Cro Cop for the title, even though it's very within the realms of possibility I really wanted to see Mirko make a run with the gold and had a last hurrah before retirement(Which is yet to happen but it can't be far off). So yeah, those four things kind of irked me. But the game is hella fun. I'm running two real mod games right now. One that's in 2010 and one that's in sync with what the UFC is really doing. I run their shows and see if I get close to the same outcome. Pretty fun.

[Cro_Cop45]

I just had 2 rather whacky tite fights. Karo Parisyian KO'd Matt Hughes 40 seconds into the fight. The encore to that was Anderson Silva going a full 5 rounds with Dan Henderson and winning every one of them.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Anderson Silva beating Dan Henderson for five rounds to a decision isn't wacky. In fact, that's exactly what I expect to happen. Both guys are tough to submit, especially Henderson. And I don't think Dan possesses the submission game to tap Silva. Henderson doesn't get KO'd easily, but there's always that off chance at that Silva could catch him with a renegade knee or ten. Silva may not win all the rounds in the fight but he will win the majority. But yeah, Karo KOing Hughes is almost as big as Serra TKOing Hughes. Karo RARELY finishes a fight anymore.

[Cro_Cop45]

I don't see Silva's ground game being good enough for him to take Hendo 5 rounds and win every round along me. Silva has a greatly underrated BJJ game, but against someone as good as Henderson, I find a scenario like that unlikely

[ACCBiggz]

It's still very possible. Silva's takedown defense is pretty good (except when he tries flying knees about every fight). The x-factor to it all in real life and what makes me think it is even more possible is how Hendo looks after cutting weight. When he fought at this weight in PRIDE he didn't look that great. And when fighting Silva that would be key. People have been saying the strength of Hendo will be a factor, and it may be, but Franklin is a HUGE 185 fighter, and we have seen how Silva manhandled him. I think it'll be a different fight from that because of Hendo's style. I love the match-up because it's a battle of the clinch. Hendo's greco game and the mauy-thai of Anderson. It becomes a chess match.

[RingofHonorGuard]

No one expected Rampage to control Dan Henderson wherever the fight went either. But, he did. Also, Dan Henderson has pretty much abandoned his wrestling game over the past couple of years. While he still has it, he's trying to stand and bang it out most of the time, and KOing Wandy did nothing but strengthen that. I fully believe that Henderson will come out swinging and try to keep the fight standing because Silva will be in the know about Henderson's greco background. As good as Hendo's striking is, Anderson's ability to avoid deadly strikes is better. And Silva's ground game is amazing and only getting better. Big Nog doesn't **** around on the ground. Anderson has defended his title against two grapplers(if you count Lutter for a title defense).

[Gertbeef]

I'm going to agree that Silva beating Hendo for 5 rounds isn't a freak occurrence. I could see it happening more so than the other freak occurrences mentioned. I don't think it will happen though, but I wouldn't be shocked. If it manages to go 5 rounds I'd have to think Henderson would steal one of them, if not more. It's an impressive performance by Silva, but I wouldn't be shocked to see it. There's not a whole lot in that fight that would shock me, those are two of the best in the world and very well rounded. I'll be pulling for Hendo to win though, I like both guys quite a bit but I'd hate to see him go 0-2 to start off his return to the UFC, and I think it would be pretty bad for his career. Silva would lose very little imo, he's reached that elite UFC status where a loss isn't going to hurt him too much. Lets hope it's a great fight at least, there's really nothing else out there on the horizon that looks decent for the UFC middleweight division.

[RingofHonorGuard]

I disagree that Anderson losing would do very little to hurt his career. One of the biggest dogs on Silva right now is that he hasn't faced a super competitive fighter yet. If Henderson comes in and walks over Anderson, people are going to be yelling "OVERRATED" left and right. As good as many people think Rich Franklin is, Silva was a horrible match for him. I think if Anderson comes out and puts on a good performance then gets KO'd in like late 3rd or 4th, it wouldn't hurt him. But yeah, I still see Silva winning this fight by decision or some sort of surprising strike that Henderson wasn't anticipating. On an edit, Jon Koppenhaver is brutal. Seems to be a raw talent that can be molded. He needs a good camp badly though. I missed the TUF 6 Finale last week, so I am catching the replay tonight.

[Tommy J.]

[QUOTE=RingofHonorGuard;338193]I disagree that Anderson losing would do very little to hurt his career. One of the biggest dogs on Silva right now is that he hasn't faced a super competitive fighter yet. If Henderson comes in and walks over Anderson, people are going to be yelling "OVERRATED" left and right. [b]As good as many people think Rich Franklin is[/b], Silva was a horrible match for him. I think if Anderson comes out and puts on a good performance then gets KO'd in like late 3rd or 4th, it wouldn't hurt him. But yeah, I still see Silva winning this fight by decision or some sort of surprising strike that Henderson wasn't anticipating.[/quote] People think Franklin's good? Wow, that's a first :). Seriously though, Rich is a good fighter but not as good as his record would suggest. [quote]On an edit, Jon Koppenhaver is brutal. Seems to be a raw talent that can be molded. He needs a good camp badly though. I missed the TUF 6 Finale last week, so I am catching the replay tonight.[/QUOTE] Too bad then he decided to assault some dude on a street outside of his gym.

[Cro_Cop45]

Franklin still is damn good fighter, he is just crippled by a total lack of clinch defense

[Gertbeef]

[QUOTE=RingofHonorGuard;338193]I disagree that Anderson losing would do very little to hurt his career. One of the biggest dogs on Silva right now is that he hasn't faced a super competitive fighter yet. If Henderson comes in and walks over Anderson, people are going to be yelling "OVERRATED" left and right. As good as many people think Rich Franklin is, Silva was a horrible match for him. I think if Anderson comes out and puts on a good performance then gets KO'd in like late 3rd or 4th, it wouldn't hurt him. But yeah, I still see Silva winning this fight by decision or some sort of surprising strike that Henderson wasn't anticipating. On an edit, Jon Koppenhaver is brutal. Seems to be a raw talent that can be molded. He needs a good camp badly though. I missed the TUF 6 Finale last week, so I am catching the replay tonight.[/QUOTE] I don't know, if Silva loses to Hendo he can easily get a title shot again after one win or maybe not even with one, that's just a crappy division right now. Hendo with those two losses in a row is kind of in limbo, and I get the feeling if he loses he'll go back up to 205 and fight there as he seems to be more comfortable at that weight. 185 is just a weak class world-wide right now imo, the weakest around. I'm not a huge fan of Franklin, but I think he can take any UFC 185'er that's not Silva/Henderson pretty easily, but he will never beat Silva and I don't think he matches up well with Hendo, so you've got a weird deal there. Then you have the supposed #2 middleweight in the world in Filho just look borderline terrible his last couple fights out. Sure he's won, but he is not impressive at all. We definitely need some new faces in that class.