Maximus Posted November 11, 2004 Author Share Posted November 11, 2004 No matter how you look at it, Arafat was a terrorist. Thats just a fact. Israel has said since the year 1999 that once Arafat is gone there will be peace in the Middle East. They tried to negotiate peace with Arafat in the year 2000. They (Israel) were willing to give up 97% of the land they (Israel took *AFTER* they were attacked during the six day war) but Arafat said "No". He wanted more. Israel wouldn't budge and that left his people (Arafats people) in a bind. The Palestinians are worse off now then they were w/o him. That's also a fact. They are a poor people (financially) while he sat back and made the seven hundred million that was supposed to be going to the development of the Palestinians. Instead this money was being used to finance the Hamas, Hizballah, The Palestine Islamic Jihad , Palestine Liberation Front , Fatah , and so on and so on and so on.......These are facts. You can't change them. Your argument is invalid. [U]Arafat was a terrorist[/U]. Now get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene777 Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Ok Maxi Arafat was a terrorist. Now will you agree that the Sharon govt. is in fact supporting state sponosred terrorism? Which is also a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 11, 2004 Author Share Posted November 11, 2004 [QUOTE=Rene777]Ok Maxi Arafat was a terrorist. Now will you agree that the Sharon govt. is in fact supporting state sponosred terrorism? Which is also a fact.[/QUOTE] Not after you just called me Maxi...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druez Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 [QUOTE=Rene777]Ok Maxi Arafat was a terrorist. Now will you agree that the Sharon govt. is in fact supporting state sponosred terrorism? Which is also a fact.[/QUOTE] They are reacting to aggresive attacks by the PLO. If the PLO decides to hide or surrond themselves with innocents, that isn't Israel's problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druez Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 [QUOTE=IrishHand]That's patently ridiculous and contradicts countless actions taken by Sharon during his tenure. He spends his time pushing the borders of Israel in one direction while the PLO tries to reverse the trend. As for looking at it historically, prior to 1945 who owned the land currently known as Israel - and who were the bulk of it's occupants? I'll give clues to both: the first is a major colonial European power while the second is the ethnic group that's been displaced and slaughtered for the past...oh...60 plus years. Israel was a manufactured nation. It was manufactured to provide Jews with a homeland. That's totally fine. But it's naive to think that you can simply shoo the prior residents aside and assume they'll accept that. The short-sightedness which existed in the post-WWII era sadly continues today, as evidenced by your above posts. Both sides are fighting for something that, really, belongs to neither - at least historically. As noted above, until each embraces their neighbor (not likely to happen anytime soon, admittedly), each will likely to continue to rely on terrorism to achieve its means. The only difference is that one side is a heck of a lot more powerful than the other, and has allies which are a heck of a lot more powerful.[/QUOTE] Actually the area was historically home to the Jew's was it not? Aren't the Jews and Palastians from the same background? I forget all the history, but they split from each other didn't they a long time ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druez Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 are any of us truely innocent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene777 Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Druez one of the beauties of arguing about this issue is the endless circle that keeps going on. Sharon should either invade Palestine or withdraw. Continually killing Hamas leaders simply starts another cycle of violence. Israel is in control and has the military power to enforce their will on the Palestinians. If they wanted peace they would have it one way or another. It continues to amaze me when the "victims" on the right in Israel have all the power they somehow are still victimized by those with rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 12, 2004 Author Share Posted November 12, 2004 Rene777, Im still awaiting an apology for the "Maxi" comment. :( Edit: Arafat is still a terrorist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druez Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 [QUOTE=Rene777]Druez one of the beauties of arguing about this issue is the endless circle that keeps going on. Sharon should either invade Palestine or withdraw. Continually killing Hamas leaders simply starts another cycle of violence. Israel is in control and has the military power to enforce their will on the Palestinians. If they wanted peace they would have it one way or another. It continues to amaze me when the "victims" on the right in Israel have all the power they somehow are still victimized by those with rocks.[/QUOTE] It's not the rocks, if it was just rocks then who cares. It's the bombs that go off in shopping malls or pizza joints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IrishHand Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 [QUOTE=Druez]Actually the area was historically home to the Jew's was it not?[/quote] No. [quote]Aren't the Jews and Palastians from the same background?[/.quote] They're both humans, yes. [quote] I forget all the history, but they split from each other didn't they a long time ago?[/QUOTE] If you're deeply religious, right about the time of Isaac and Ismael. Other than that, not that I'm aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IrishHand Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 [QUOTE=Maximus]Arafat is still a terrorist.[/QUOTE] You have concerns about a dead guy? How about "was", which makes it irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 12, 2004 Author Share Posted November 12, 2004 [QUOTE=IrishHand]You have concerns about a dead guy? How about "was", which makes it irrelevant.[/QUOTE] Well, I posted "was" a few posts ago. Sorry, I'm not perfect. Anyways, Its now 5:55am CT and on the news they are showing that Arafats body is returning to Palestine. Guess who is there as major supporters holding guns and light armor, ready "to shed blood on the land in the holy city of Jerusalem"? ...... Hamas! Oh, boy, who would've thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 12, 2004 Author Share Posted November 12, 2004 [QUOTE=IrishHand]Are you a person or a vehicle for stock-and-trade propaganda?[/QUOTE] I just wanted to point out that I get the same info from the same "news" sources that you do. I hear the same stories, read the same papers, ...... we are both people & vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IrishHand Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 [QUOTE=Maximus]I just wanted to point out that I get the same info from the same "news" sources that you do. I hear the same stories, read the same papers, ......[/quote] I find that [i]highly[/i] doubtful. I spend just as much time reading European and Canadian newspapers as I do American ones. Naturally, being a relatively intelligent person with the moderate ability to discern gross bias in reporting, I eschew FoxNews. [quote]we are both people & vehicles.[/QUOTE] Of course we're both people, and of course we're both vehicles. My point was that some people simply regurgitate whatever line they're fed. Me, I make a point of being my own vehicle. I make an effort to learn about and understand things before I make grandiose declarations about them. 9/11 had a profound impact on you? How? Me, I left a career as a lawyer to join our armed forces. I took a 67% pay cut and signed what amounts to a 10-year committment to defend this country. I don't sit on the sidelines naively believing everything the government tells me while embracing the needless slaughter of Iraqis and my fellow servicemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druez Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 [QUOTE=IrishHand]I find that [i]highly[/i] doubtful. I spend just as much time reading European and Canadian newspapers as I do American ones. Naturally, being a relatively intelligent person with the moderate ability to discern gross bias in reporting, I eschew FoxNews. Of course we're both people, and of course we're both vehicles. My point was that some people simply regurgitate whatever line they're fed. Me, I make a point of being my own vehicle. I make an effort to learn about and understand things before I make grandiose declarations about them. 9/11 had a profound impact on you? How? Me, I left a career as a lawyer to join our armed forces. I took a 67% pay cut and signed what amounts to a 10-year committment to defend this country. I don't sit on the sidelines naively believing everything the government tells me while embracing the needless slaughter of Iraqis and my fellow servicemen.[/QUOTE] So did John Kerry. You going to run for office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IrishHand Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Another wonderful example of no fact to support the fiction. Kerry didn't become an attorney until after he'd served in Vietnam - totally different time, place and situation. He did the normal route...college, military, law school, politics. (Actually, politics for him started earlier than that - but he wasn't elected until after he'd joined the bar.) Oh...and no, no interest in politics personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 12, 2004 Author Share Posted November 12, 2004 [QUOTE=IrishHand]I find that [i]highly[/i] doubtful. I spend just as much time reading European and Canadian newspapers as I do American ones. Naturally, being a relatively intelligent person with the moderate ability to discern gross bias in reporting, I eschew FoxNews. Of course we're both people, and of course we're both vehicles. My point was that some people simply regurgitate whatever line they're fed. Me, I make a point of being my own vehicle. I make an effort to learn about and understand things before I make grandiose declarations about them. 9/11 had a profound impact on you? How? Me, I left a career as a lawyer to join our armed forces. I took a 67% pay cut and signed what amounts to a 10-year committment to defend this country. I don't sit on the sidelines naively believing everything the government tells me while embracing the needless slaughter of Iraqis and my fellow servicemen.[/QUOTE] [CODE]I find that [i]highly[/i] doubtful. I spend just as much time reading European and Canadian newspapers as I do American ones.[/CODE] Your doubt once again proves you wrong. yYou have no idea. I am highly involved with overseas news reports. I have [U]all[/U] (except for two brothers) of my family living in either the UK, France, or Serbia. [CODE]9/11 had a profound impact on you? How[/CODE] Thats none of your business. Sorry. [CODE]I make an effort to learn about and understand things before I make grandiose declarations about them.[/CODE] ...and I don't!?! Don't sit there at your PC telling me that you know me by means of this thread. I may not have been a lawer as you claim you are/were but I'm not stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IrishHand Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 [QUOTE=Maximus][CODE]9/11 had a profound impact on you? How[/CODE] Thats none of your business. Sorry.[/quote] Then stop using it as a defense for an ethnocentric, nationalist view of the world. [quote][CODE]I make an effort to learn about and understand things before I make grandiose declarations about them.[/CODE] ...and I don't!?! Don't sit there at your PC telling me that you know me by means of this thread. I may not have been a lawer as you claim you are/were but I'm not stupid.[/QUOTE] No, you don't. I read the exact same things you've written from rah-rah conservatives on political forums I frequent. If I wanted conservative propaganda, I'd watch FoxNews like the rest of the sheep. :confused: And the operative word is "are" - being a lawyer is like being a teacher. It's a profession, not a job. Even if you're doing something else, you're still a member of the profession. I didn't claim you're stupid - I was nice and assumed you were just ill-informed. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 12, 2004 Author Share Posted November 12, 2004 I hear you IrishHand. I respect your opinions and thoughts on such an issue. Thank you for the debate (or whatever one may call it). :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druez Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 [QUOTE=IrishHand]Another wonderful example of no fact to support the fiction. Kerry didn't become an attorney until after he'd served in Vietnam - totally different time, place and situation. He did the normal route...college, military, law school, politics. (Actually, politics for him started earlier than that - but he wasn't elected until after he'd joined the bar.) Oh...and no, no interest in politics personally.[/QUOTE] My reference was more of a cheapshot that Kerry went into the military for his political career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacersfan46 Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 [QUOTE=IrishHand]I took a 67% pay cut and signed what [B]amounts to a 10-year committment[/B] to defend this country. I don't sit on the sidelines naively believing everything the government tells me while embracing the needless slaughter of Iraqis and my fellow servicemen.[/QUOTE] Pilot? My brother had to sign a 10 year agreement, and he's a pilot in the Air Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IrishHand Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 Seriously? 10 years is a LONG time. Did that include his training? Technically, my commitment is for 8 years after I got my wings, but it took almost two years for that to happen and I went through the training pipeline pretty quickly. Yes, though, I'm a pilot. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druez Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 Irishhand, I respect what you did. I'm all for our military brothers. But, I'm still going to argue with you :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IrishHand Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 I would certainly hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene777 Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 "Rene777, Im still awaiting an apology for the "Maxi" comment." Just got my desk top working again today after my recent unfortunate event. Don't know why you would be offended Maximus, but Immm sorry. :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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