Game mechanics and attributes

[tsuihkon]

I've been wondering about the game mechanics and the effect of attributes to the skills like block, reverse, avoid, rush, slip out etc. How can these percentages be improved? Or can they? Is avoid maneuver tied to athleticism attribute? Does power attribute increase damage? Does damage to arm(or leg) affect performance and how?

 

Everyone keep saying read the help, but there is nothing about these things in help. I have no clear understanding how mat wrestling or chain wrestling improve match performance and what are the pros of charisma or menace?

 

Then there's the popularity. I got fired from a promotion when I had C popularity in that region (promotion was small) and I was lower middlecarder. Even though, I improved all my attributes and had probably at least 50/50 win/lose ratio, I got fired. Is this normal and how random is this? I've been fired from nearly every job I had O_o.

 

Then to match mechanics. There's a percentage to succeed, but there still seems to be a completely random element to the match. I've counted some of the odds and to be able to hit 10 moves in a row, from which 2 are finishers or high impact moves, were about 1% and this has happened in at least 6 out 30 matches. My opponent just hits move after move, until he hits his finisher and that's it. So, how are these chances counted? Is it a random number generator from 1-100 and numbers less that fit in the desired range hit? Example; move has a 60% success rate, numbers lower and equal than 60 hit, others miss.

 

These are the main questions I've been pondering, since I couldn't find answers elsewhere, I thought I give this a go. Thanks for advance!

[Adam Ryland]

I've been wondering about the game mechanics and the effect of attributes to the skills like block, reverse, avoid, rush, slip out etc. How can these percentages be improved? Or can they?

 

They are tied to the appropriate stats. Avoid and Rush are obviously to do with your speed, Block is linked to technique, etc, etc. The better the stat, the better the chance of the counter working.

 

Then to match mechanics. There's a percentage to succeed, but there still seems to be a completely random element to the match. ... So, how are these chances counted? Is it a random number generator from 1-100 and numbers less that fit in the desired range hit? Example; move has a 60% success rate, numbers lower and equal than 60 hit, others miss.

 

The success percentage is not an isolated number; it is modified by the counter that the opponent has chosen, quite heavily by the attacker's momentum, both fighter's current health, etc, etc. You cannot see the "real" success percentage that is being used, only the number it was originally based on. The "real" percentage is, however, a true percentage - a final figure of 60% is genuinely a 60% chance of success. The computer only SEEMS better at stringing together moves because it is better at playing the odds than the player - it uses exactly the same code as the player, there is no "cheating" involved.

[tsuihkon]

It seems there is a communication problem here. I didn't ask if computer cheats, I asked how each number is derived. I think all those who play this game would like to know how chances of "avoid" action are calculated. I'm interested in the mechanics and how rising 'mat wrestling' by 1% affects the game.

 

Info on more obscured stats would be highly appreciated. I have no clue how 'selling', 'looks', 'microphone' etc. affects the game play. I also didn't understand why 'selling' is capped by 'flashiness', which is in turn capped by 'aerial'. With this logic, Ric Flair should have been the best high flier ever.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't mock the game and I know that writing a detailed documentation is a pain, but still, it should be available for a game this complex. Since I'm a software designer by profession and a role-playing geek, it is hard for me to ignore these issues and concede that everything has an effect on everything without knowing what that effect is.

 

What I'm looking for is a list of attributes and how they effect on skills. Also I'd like to know what are exact effects of 'momentum' and health as well. Popularity also needs an in-depth explanation.

 

Once again, I'm not mocking the game or the developer, I'm just a customer crying out for a proper manual.

[captainlou]

First off, you took the last few words from his reponse concerning the success percentage, "there is no "cheating" involved", and took it out of context as if it was answering your question, which of course it wasn't. That in itself is a communication problem on your part.

 

Secondly, have you looked at the "index.html" link that is in the GDS\WreSpi2\help folder? That link will take you to a help area which includes several topics and has a link to F.A.Q. (frequently asked questions) and the responses to those questions.

[Adam Ryland]

It seems there is a communication problem here. I didn't ask if computer cheats, I asked how each number is derived.

 

You specifically said "My opponent just hits move after move, until he hits his finisher and that's it." - my "cheating" response was in direct response to that, clarifying that the odds of success are identical for both player and AI and it's just about how you play them.

 

Info on more obscured stats would be highly appreciated. I have no clue how 'selling', 'looks', 'microphone' etc. affects the game play. I also didn't understand why 'selling' is capped by 'flashiness', which is in turn capped by 'aerial'. With this logic, Ric Flair should have been the best high flier ever.

 

As Lou alluded to, please have a look at the FAQ as that covers a lot of topics and may help you with some of your questions - I'm pretty sure Momentum in particular is explained there. Any other specific question you have can be asked on the board and I'll do my best to answer them.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't mock the game and I know that writing a detailed documentation is a pain, but still, it should be available for a game this complex. Since I'm a software designer by profession and a role-playing geek, it is hard for me to ignore these issues and concede that everything has an effect on everything without knowing what that effect is.

 

This is an argument that I've had with several professional coders on the board over the years. To sum up, I don't agree with the premise - I think that in-depth documentation is necessary and compulsory in most software, but not in games of this nature. I think that the documentation should be enough to allow the user to play the game but should not give detailed analysis of everything; in my view that reduces the game down to merely a set of rules and random numbers when games should aspire to be more than that - indeed, you're paying me to achieve that very goal, the creation of the curtain that separates the gameplay from the code. Part of the way I design games is to push that sense of trial and error, where the player is learning what works as he plays, it's been a cornerstone of my games since the days of EWR in the mid 1990s.

 

Now, to be clear, I'm well aware that there are different types of gamers and the more analytical people (and in particular, professional software coders \ designers \ etc who by their nature want to take things apart to see how they work) find that approach maddening and want to know how everything works so that they can strategise at a higher level, so please don't take the above as a "my way is the right way". All I am doing is stating my position on the subject, which is that I disagree with detailed documentation for games like WreSpi (and WreSpi in particular, for reference, was specifically designed so that when you're playing you're not thinking of stats but playing as if you were there - so you're Avoiding a move because that's what makes sense and would happen in reality, not because it's got a 10% more chance of working than some other counter) and the lack thereof is intentional. I know that the lack of specifics in the documentation probably costs me a few customers, but it's something I believe strongly in and will stick to.

 

That said, I do specifically keep very active on the forums so that if you can't work out what a specific stat does then you can ask and I can run through it with you. You will have to keep in mind that it's a very old game though, so I will have to look up most of the answers rather than being able to give you on-the-fly answers!!

[tsuihkon]

Yes, I've read the help files, but I still don't get the skills in category "performance", "entertainment" and "other". It would be logical to assume, that performance skills would be beneficial in working at entertainment-based promotion. My character is working (in rookie-to-legend mode) in traditional, sports entertainment and family friendly style promotions. I haven't really figured out how charisma or other skills in same category help in any way. Skills 'menace' and 'looks' particularly. I would also assume, that a guy, with charisma (and other skills microphone, acting) E or F would suffer in such promotions. Also, the skills consistency, selling, stiffness and intensity are mysteries. I've raised all skills in entertainment, other and performance category from F to C and don't see any change, but I've seen my performance in matches getting better by raising my wrestling skills. Because of the slow development, I've spent about three years of my early career raising these (entertainment) skills, but haven't seen a payoff yet or haven't looked at it from the right angle.

 

 

Don't know if it's normal to work for 200+ matches and still be "only" lower midcarder, even though popularity is B- on that territory and C- to C+ on most other territories (in the USA). If I have popularity B- in the territory I'm working, am I able to "force my way" in the bigger matches through feuds or other tricks? I just don't understand the popularity rating B- and my push as a opener (popularity 25,1% in the promotion, HCW).

 

On a side note, I like this "free form" character development a lot. It makes you feel that your character is paying his dues and slowly, but surely getting on his feet.

 

About communication issues, I have real hard time getting my messages across by writing, just because english is not my native language and some things are complex to write out how you think them through (if that makes any sense). So apologies to every one, just ignore the stupidity of my posts and focus on the issues I'm trying to discuss

 

Also would like to thank Adam for providing customer service and answering to stupid questions. Even if the game sucked (which it doesn't) I'd like to pay for it because of this kind of service and commitment!

[captainlou]

How close are you to the other wrestlers around you as far as popularity goes in the territory, or territories, that you are in? There may be many wrestlers higher than you in the popularity and that could be the reason why you are being pushed at the level that you are in. For an example, I am using "The Undertaker" as my wrestler in my career, which is being journaled here at the site.

 

As of the end of 1985, Mark "The Undertaker" Calaway has a popularity percentage of 47.8%. In WCCW, he is a lower midcarder and also has a popularity grade of "C" in the region that it is in (Mid South). There are a bunch of wrestlers in WCCW that have a much higher popularity %, thus he is being pushed as a lower midcarder. In PNW, I have a "B" popularity grade in the northwest region and am currently being pushed as an upper midcarder, not because of the grade, but because my 47.8% popularity is much higher than most of those in PNW.

 

Even though you may have a good popularity grade in a region, it is your popularity % that will place you as to where you are being pushed on the card. In your case, although you have a very good popularity rating of "B-" in the region that HCW is in, you are being pushed based on the other wrestlers that are in HCW and their popularity %. With your's only being at 25.1%, you will need to win matches and the popularity % will increase. Just because you are well known in the area, your 25.1% popularity reflects you world wide popularity and relative inexperience as compared to the wrestlers who have been around for years and is holding you back from being pushed higher than you are.

 

By the way, I have wrestled 353 matches so far from May of 1983 through December of 1985.

[tsuihkon]

One shot at glory

 

I've had about 300 matches in 83-86. I didn't get booked at first year much, don't know why. I've won about 200 and lost 100. Later years winning has become easier, but I still get squashed time to time. Just lost PNW television title to Orndorff in 2/3 falls match, which I had a rotten luck.

 

BTW, I still don't get how computer "is better stringing moves together". In about 10% of my matches, I have no chance against my opponent, that's probably purely a luck issue, if you can't connect even easy moves and your opponent hits devastating moves until your done. I don't get the idea, because the frequency guide gives about 30-40% frequency to most moves I ate in the last match and my opponent "easily slips out" or "easily breaks" moves that have frequency 60-85%. What kind of impact does chain wrestling skill has to this?

 

Also, what stats should I raise if I want to be better at avoiding moves? My logic was that stat is athletics, but I got the impression that it is aerial? Or is slipping out performed with aerial and avoid with something else? And is the chance of countering a move connected to your skills? I mean, I got A in technical stats, but countering is very difficult. Or can you only counter if your opponent "misses" and you hit?

 

I have worked most of my career in promotions that are "regional" (3 houses), all "cult" promotions say that my popularity is too low still. I have c- to c+ in 5 territories, B in one, E in one and F in other US territories(there are no promotions in New England territory, so it's F all the way). Still I can't get a job in bigger territories, it just seems a bit overkill to have F to A stats when you really have to work to get your popularity up to C. Popularity C seems to mean almost nothing. When you start, everything is F and I got a job at second level promotion and after four years, I can only work for a third level promotion. Should I have all popularity ratings something like B to get a better job? It just seems that there is this huge range in popularity but only really high ratings seem to mean something, I just thought that C would matter. I got really pumped when I looked at popularity, loads of C's and a B, but I got bit frustrated, when I noticed that it doesn't really matter. Except that I'm lower midcarder in most of promotions.

[captainlou]

I didn't get my first crack at a cult sized territory (WCCW) until my world popularity percentage was at least 35% and almost all of the regions in the USA were at least C-.

 

In mine (which you can read in the wrestling spirit 2 dynasties forum), both WWF and MACW have gone national so it will probably be a while longer until I'm able to get "Mean Mark Callous" or "The Undertaker" going. Currently, I'm planning on entering MACW in late 1989 then WWF in late 1990.

 

As stated previously, it's your popularity PERCENTAGE, not your GRADES, that will allow you to gain access to the territories and your place in the card. The GRADES do come into play as far as your energy percentage level is concerned in matches within the region, as well as your stamina. For example, if your match is being held within a region in which your popularity GRADE is an F, then your starting energy level (i think that's what it is called) will be low, and if your match location is in the region that you have the B rating in, the starting energy level will be high.

 

For me to get a better look at what needs to be increased, you should probably post your popularity %, popularity grades, and the grades of all of your attributes. That way, we can get you on the path to the larger territories (cult, national, global). For example, you can see the current grades and the global popularity percentage, for Mark Calaway at the end of December 1985 in my dynasty.

[tsuihkon]

Stating to roll

 

I now finally understand how popularity works, thanks guys!

 

Finally also got a job at AWA, now it is ON! The popularity boost out of a one won match is tremendous, more than I thought. Even though, I still can't keep my hands on a title for a long time, but everything is starting to finally move my way. Even though, there are annoying quirks in the game, it is really rewarding now.

 

I still have a one question. When bracing a move, does toughness determine how hard of a punch can be absorbed and is power the attribute that "negates" toughness? I know how momentum affects this already. Also, can a really powerful guy hit bigger moves on bigger opponents (like fallaway slams)? Sometimes, I can't hit certain moves on certain opponents, I concluded that I should raise my power from C+ upwards to ease this. I also assume that a middleweight might not be able to lift a super heavyweight?

 

I still don't get "intensity". What does it do?

 

I have started to get into title matches more regularly and now the Mighty Mayhem has held ICW television title twice, PNW television once, Mid-South television twice and is the current reigning PNW Heavyweight tag team champion with Buck Zonhofe. Still hate the fact that I couldn't form a successful team with HBK, that would have been nice

 

I'm now on my 5th year with 220 wins and 107 losses and really enjoying the ride!

 

EDIT

 

I just had a tag match in which Don Muraco seemed to be unbeatable. This is my biggest gripe. I hit him with 5 DDT's, one german suplex and my finishing move (80% success rate) and he kicked out all of them (according to statistics, chances of kicking out all of them in a row is about 2%)and delivered a series of moves, three of them were possible finishers and I lost. He took over 450 damage to head but it didn't mean anything.I really hate the fact that you have to kill the guy and he still makes a comeback, without momentum, without energy, without anything. I had a similar first blood match (those are terrible) with Steamboat. It took about 3 chair shots to the head and few DDT's on the chair and two of my signature moves on the chair to bust him up. Both did immense amount of damage and that didn't mean anything either.

 

Damage seems to be completely meaningless, apart from the announcements that someone is hurting from somewhere. In one of threads, someone pointed out that singling out a body part is a good strategy, well, it just isn't true. If it was, I think Muraco should have had some difficulties, but that wasn't the case.

 

Is this an isolated incident or is there some stat the raises your chances of kicking out and not quitting or what is going on? I have never been able to perform a feat anything near that.