jbmagic Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 How is the end of Game AI shaping up on latest build? are they making better decisions at end of game when behind and ahead than the demo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubsfan23 Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 I hope so. I had 4th down and less than 1 minute left (behind by 4). I clicked suggest. PUNT! :) Please fix that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Mike D Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 This was a problem in TPF, the default was punt in close and late situations. Just make sure to check your gameplanning if you don't call your own plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nukester Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 Yeah Ive had a couple of head scratching moments when the CPU didnt try for game winning field goals, and punted instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbmagic Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 [QUOTE=Another Mike D]This was a problem in TPF, the default was punt in close and late situations. Just make sure to check your gameplanning if you don't call your own plays.[/QUOTE] that good for helping your own team. but hoping cpu teams are smart at end of game decisions too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Mike D Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Looking over the demo, it doesn't appear there is anything in the game planning for 4th downs. Is this correct? When I go to set the offensive gameplan, it doesn't have any 4th down situations. This will create a terrible problem for the final minutes. If you are down and on your own 30 with 1 minute left and have 4th and anything, you'd go for it...but it sounds as if the AI is content to punt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azamien Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I don't think there is AI in the true sense. If you look at the way the computer calls plays, there's nothing reactionary about it. They'll come out in a dime vs the wishbone on 2nd and short simply because the gameplan says to use the dime a certain percentage of the time. If I'm right about this, then we can get used to the CPU AI never functioning very realistically, just like in TPF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Plum Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Azamien how do other football games handle the logic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azamien Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 [QUOTE=Tim Plum]Azamien how do other football games handle the logic?[/QUOTE] Text games? I couldn't tell you. I've only played this and TPF. The only other football game I play nowadays is Madden, and they definately have reactive AI, but comparing Madden to this is apples to steaks. Not even in the same food group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Plum Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 true, all the games in the text genre use the same logic pattern. Since Arlie wrote TPF and BBCF it makes sense that the logic would be the same. As you will notice the sim results are very close to realistic outcomes, unlike Madden which is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azamien Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 [QUOTE=Tim Plum]true, all the games in the text genre use the same logic pattern. Since Arlie wrote TPF and BBCF it makes sense that the logic would be the same. As you will notice the sim results are very close to realistic outcomes, unlike Madden which is a joke.[/QUOTE] Well, I disagree about the Madden sim scores being that bad, but that's another discussion for another thread. The problem here isn't sim scores. It's when the game is actually played out. Using a percentages script in place of reactive AI means that things will never be quite right, ie the CPU punting when behind in the last minute, or running a completely wrong defense for the situation. If there can't be a reactive AI, though, there at the very least needs to be a way for the script to be more flexible in situations, and have more realistic settings. Other text sims, like OOTP and TDCB are able to react in the last parts of games correctly, at least most of the time. The problem is that the TPF/BBCF engine fails in this regard. The failures when it comes to late-in-game reactivity, and defensive play calling actually make me lean towards not buying this game. I was able to move forward with TPF because it worked OK as a simmed-out game. This game I'm not so sure of. I've tried simming seasons, and it's just not quite as fun as TPF was. So if the main part of the game has such large, realism-breaking failures in it, it's a problem. Don't get me wrong. I think this game is shaping up great in many regards. But everytime I see the CPU punt instead of going for it with less than a minute left, or put in a dime defense to counter a running formation in a short yardage situation, or any of the other numerous AI-gaps, it makes me not want to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 By looking at the gameplan part of the game, it looks like all that you would need to do to is change the "4th down attempts" value to a greater number in the "losing" scenarios in the 4th quarter and your team should choose to go for it instead of punt (I assume if a value of 50 is average, then a value of 99 is always). If the non user AI was already pre-set to 99, then the AI should go for it on 4th down a realistic amount as well (though I don't see any way that the user can change that). The problem, of course, still remains that we have no rules in place for yardage situations on 4th down, unless I'm just missing it. I assume that it uses the same instances as the 3rd down rules, but I could be wrong. Even if it does, it would be a boon to the user to be able to set alternate 4th down rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Kaputnik Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 [QUOTE=cubsfan23]I hope so. I had 4th down and less than 1 minute left (behind by 4). I clicked suggest. PUNT! :) Please fix that.[/QUOTE] What kind of a dumbass needs to ask the AI what to do in that situation? Maybe you could have had the QB take a knee or something. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BYU 14 Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 [QUOTE=Roger Kaputnik]What kind of a dumbass needs to ask the AI what to do in that situation? Maybe you could have had the QB take a knee or something. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] LOL, classic, I know it needs to be fixed but you kind of walked into that cubsfan ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamTeams Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 [QUOTE=Roger Kaputnik]What kind of a dumbass needs to ask the AI what to do in that situation? Maybe you could have had the QB take a knee or something. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] Hmmm. I think his point is that if the AI called a punt in this situation for his team it's also calling it for the other (cpu) team. If that's the case, it needs to be worked on for solo play for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 [QUOTE=Roger Kaputnik]What kind of a dumbass needs to ask the AI what to do in that situation? Maybe you could have had the QB take a knee or something. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] Sorry Roger, but unless I'm not seeing it, there is more than one play to call in that situation. Asking for the AI for a specific play in that situation isn't dumb, otherwise there would be no need for OC as the HC could make those calls in his sleep. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlie Rahn Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Guys, the AI has been improved for late game logic in the next build. There are now "overrides" to aid gameplans late in the game for those who sim. Plus, you can set how often you want to go on fourth down on average. Still, late game situations will most likely now go to a different set of AI. If you are up in an obvious running situation and the gameplan calls for a pass, it will override a run. If you are down with under 2 minutes and at 4th and 3 at midfield, it will go for it, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azamien Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 [QUOTE=Arlie Rahn]Guys, the AI has been improved for late game logic in the next build. There are now "overrides" to aid gameplans late in the game for those who sim. Plus, you can set how often you want to go on fourth down on average. Still, late game situations will most likely now go to a different set of AI. If you are up in an obvious running situation and the gameplan calls for a pass, it will override a run. If you are down with under 2 minutes and at 4th and 3 at midfield, it will go for it, etc.[/QUOTE] That's fantastic news, and alleviates my biggest doubt about this game. I'll be buying it without a doubt now. Thanks Arlie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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