John Comey Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I have not done short-term research. This is geared toward the longer dynasties (30+ years); I am noticing a lot of four-loss teams, as well as five-loss teams, in the top 25. Also, the Pac 10 has nine teams in the top 25. This includes three 5-5 teams. I have also seen a four-loss team as the #7 team in the country. The Pac-10 problem came in year 39 of the sim; there were many other teams who deserved a spot over these teams. Once I can actually sit at my own computer and get all of the information, I will post it. This is as specific as I can get right now, as my laptop is without internet access, and my own net time is very spot (at work right now). I am writing this to call this out to others, and see if they are seeing the same thing. This is with a new 1.04 dynasty. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICBUAB Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Ditto... Seems like poll were working better before... I am in year 25 of the dynasty, week 6. I started out ranked 19, cool. I am 6-0, beating 2 top 10 teams. I am still ranked 19 team, I went up a couple spots once, then fell back after a another win. Also Miami is 2-4 and ranked 13 in the nation. Yes they have 9th SOS, but still. I have a SOS of 33. I am also behind 5 two loss teams with SOS of 79, 102, 7, 8, & 12. I could understand that for teams that started unranked, but I started 19th. There is a major problem with the rankings. Not sure how the year is going to play out, but early signs are not good. In the Coaches Polls however, it is following moreso what it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Mike D Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 SOS is useless, it seems to only take prestige into account. This is a killer if you are using a really good team, as I've now seen 10-1 teams ranked lower than 8-4 teams. It seems the game really pays little attention to record now and mainly prestige. So if you have a prestige of 80 and are 7-5, you'll be ranked higher than a prestige of 40 with a 10-2 record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MizzouRah Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I agree, the polls need some looking at. I'm seeing teams beat a team and have a better record, but still ranked lower in the polls. to me.. the coaches poll looks even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
govols Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 It doesn't seem to be just long turn games. I am in the second year with my game and the polls with 1.04 are WAY WORSE THAN BEFORE 1.04. The polls must get fixed or it is going to kill this game for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlie Rahn Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I will be trying my hand at the polls one more time in 1.1. I drastically changed the way I was doing the polls in 1.04 and I think some odd things have occurred because of it. In retrospect, I probably should have just kept the same system and setup some rules to avoid odd occurances. It was just a little too ambitious to try and redo the entire polling system in a patch. For now, I will look into this but I may end up just rolling back the 1.03 method and adding polls - saving the complete redesign for the next version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlie Rahn Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 [QUOTE=govols]It doesn't seem to be just long turn games. I am in the second year with my game and the polls with 1.04 are WAY WORSE THAN BEFORE 1.04. The polls must get fixed or it is going to kill this game for me.[/QUOTE] I will be scrapping the 1.04 method of doing polls and go back to the 1.03 for 1.1. I have no ETA on this, but people are welcome to roll the game back to 1.03 if they wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
govols Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Any chance of a 1.05 that just rolls the polls back? Right now Michigan is 3-4 in my game and ranked #9 in the coaches poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlie Rahn Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 I think the main problem is that early in the season losses do not count as much as they should in certain situation. But, by the end of the season, it usually works out as a whole. It will be addressed in 1.1, but I don't think seeing a 2-4 team listed in the top 25 in week 7 is an enormous issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
govols Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 I simmed out the season just to see what happens. It looked somwhat better in the end. I did have a two loss Texas team get in the championship game over a couple of one loss teams from Major conferences. Specifically Michigan State that was 10-1 but their schedule was ranked 56 while Texas schedule was somewhat tougher(I can't remember the final number) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachcbj Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Arlie, could you just roll the system back to 1.03 and then re-upload. 1.04. 1.04 has alot of good fixes in it. It would suck to have to choose between and bad pool system or a bunch of other upgrades. Cant we just update 1.04. Also, have teams tried a playoff system. It seems like its more built for playoffs. Win your conference and get in. Then you dont have to worry where your ranked. Only if you need to get in as an at large team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlie Rahn Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 I think the polls are OK for the most part by the end of the season for the GDCS and bowl system. Most of the problems have been early in the season with some teams not dropping as fast as they should. Still, when you figure both polls and the CPU, the GDCS seems to be working OK for the final games. I think a lot of people are overreacting about the polls because of some teams hanging around in week 6. But, by week 16, the results seem to be fair for the top spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPBPlayer Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 The polls are killing me right now, but the other changes are great. A roll back to the 1.03 polls and a re-release of 1.04 would be really great. It is almost a month since release now, and a playable game would be nice. This would do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mh2365 Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 [QUOTE=TPBPlayer] It is almost a month since release now, and a playable game would be nice. [/QUOTE] ???????????????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPBPlayer Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 [QUOTE=mh2365]????????????????????????[/QUOTE] OK, I should have added for me. There were too many problems before the 1.04 release to play a serious career. The 1.04 patch cleared them all up, but seriously broke the polls, which is a pretty major aspect of collgiate sports (like it or not). Considering my AD has placed expectations on me related to poll rankings, and that poll rankings also determine who plays for the title or an at large BCS game, I still don't feel confident in starting a serious career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miral Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 I haven't seen a poll in a college game yet that is really accurate early in the season, so I've always basically ignored them till the closing weeks, because the end of the year is the only time they really mean anything. Case in point, for me, every year the Big East has never had a team in the top 25, but every year at season end there are two or three of them in top 25, that's what really matters. So in that respect, I just ignore the polls until week 10 or 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srudoff Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 i was ranked #2 and played #9 Purdue at the Shoe They killed me 53-24 I dropped to #3 They dropped to #11... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MizzouRah Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 I liked 1.03 as far as polls went. I would love to see 1.04 with the 1.03 poll system.. although I'll see how they look at the end of the year I'm playing right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IrishHand Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 [QUOTE=Arlie Rahn]I think the main problem is that early in the season losses do not count as much as they should in certain situation.[/quote] Certain situations? In the real world, they count a great deal in all situations. [quote]I don't think seeing a 2-4 team listed in the top 25 in week 7 is an enormous issue.[/QUOTE] Unless you're looking for realism, that is. I've been a college football fan for about 20 years and I don't recall ever seeing a sub-.500 team in the top 25 in week 4, much less week 7. A preseason top 5 team might remain in the top 25 (although the bottom part of it) with a 1-2 start only as long as the 2 losses were to other top 10 teams. Barring that, you fall below .500 after 3 games and you should be on the outside looking in for at least 2-3 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heellover Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 It's pretty hard to make a computer formula that would replicate the human subjectivity involved in polls exactly. I like how the new polls work for the GDS bowl games, as there's no longer 10-1 Texas Christian teams playing for the national championship over 10-1 SEC teams. However, the new polls are extremely bad with the lower rankings, and it makes it pretty anooying to try and do a career with a team outside one of the major conferences because getting ranked even with 11-0 or 10-1 seasons can be difficult, and that makes it hard to raise prestige. I wish there was some way to merge the 1.03 and 1.04 poll system, but as it stands I can't play the game at all with 1.04 so like others, I will have to wait for the patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Plum Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 the 1.04 polls were done so that like real life the smaller, less prestigous schools would indeed have a hard time not only getting into the polls but certainly to rise. Users clamoured for a more realistic approach to small school inclusion in the polls and bowls (hey that rhymes :)) so that is what Arlie has incorporated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srudoff Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 [QUOTE=srudoff]i was ranked #2 and played #9 Purdue at the Shoe They killed me 53-24 I dropped to #3 They dropped to #11...[/QUOTE] Forgot to mention, the opening NCAA rankings for the season were.... 1 Michigan 2 Purdue 3 Ohio State 4 Wisconsin riiiiiiiiiight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachcbj Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 [QUOTE=Tim Plum]the 1.04 polls were done so that like real life the smaller, less prestigous schools would indeed have a hard time not only getting into the polls but certainly to rise. Users clamoured for a more realistic approach to small school inclusion in the polls and bowls (hey that rhymes :)) so that is what Arlie has incorporated.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but they shouldnt be punish going undefeated like people are posting. Look at Utah last year. And TCU this year. I think he made changes. But they are too extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachcbj Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 [QUOTE=srudoff]i was ranked #2 and played #9 Purdue at the Shoe They killed me 53-24 I dropped to #3 They dropped to #11...[/QUOTE] See this is the one that really bothers me. I could almost put up with the other aspects of the poll. But this right here would NEVER and I mean NEVER happen in real college football. You dont beat a #2 a drop in the ranking. Thats just not fun to look at. What if he would have been the winning team. I would have been running around my house jumping up and down. Upsetting a #2, conference rival, at their house. Then when the week was over I would see that I'm now ranked back to spots!! Whatever!! If anything Purdue would leapfrog OSU somewhere in the top ten. Arlie, I know this games arent easy to make or design and I could probably do it. But dang that just flat out wrong. And thats why I keep saying. Its something that needs to be fixed ASAP. This example is a perfect example of killing the college football experience. Im sorry in College sports you live for the ranking and to be better than the next guy. Especially when you beat them!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachcbj Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 [QUOTE=Arlie Rahn]I think the main problem is that early in the season losses do not count as much as they should in certain situation. But, by the end of the season, it usually works out as a whole. It will be addressed in 1.1, but I don't think seeing a 2-4 team listed in the top 25 in week 7 is an enormous issue.[/QUOTE] Arlie, Im really surprised you said this. Youre goal is to make the most accurate colllege football sim there is. And 2-4 teams in the top 25 at any point in any season, is wrong. Its a huge issue. I said once and I'll say it again, the polls are major in college sports. You strive to be ranked number #1 in any poll. But when your 5-1 and not ranked and someone is 2-4 and is ranked. That would irriate me no matter when it was in the season. The Polls should reflect realism at all times. Not just by the time season ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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