MightyDavidson Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Alright I'm fighting in a World Cup match and this is the third bloody match in a row where the AI has absolutely refused to let me do anything. Not only that but it's handed my opponents every opportunity to get victory. My opponent only has to thwart one of my moves to get the advantage, but I can seemingly thwart his moves all day and he will still be in control. Not only that, everytime I start building up a decent level of momentum he magically gets an advantage and needs only a couple moves to make that momentum disappear. That can't be right can it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ryland Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Funny how whenever someone destroys a computer opponent they consider themselves a great player, but whenever the computer opponent beats them the game suddenly appears to be broken and\or cheating :D First off, I'd suggest you make sure you read the help file thoroughly, as just from this short post I can see that you're misunderstanding some areas. [QUOTE]My opponent only has to thwart one of my moves to get the advantage, but I can seemingly thwart his moves all day and he will still be in control.[/QUOTE] The flow of control is very simple. If you as the defender successfully use a Counter or a Counter Move you take control. There are three exceptions. A Rope Break counter does not give you control. An Escape counter does not give you control. A Block counter does not give you control UNLESS you hit two Blocks in a row. [QUOTE]Not only that, everytime I start building up a decent level of momentum he magically gets an advantage [/QUOTE] There is no "magical" way to get an advantage. The only way he can take back control is if you miss a move, or he counters. Check the Frequency of the move you are attempting. Even if you have great momentum, a 15% move is still going to miss more often than it will hit. If you do not understand how frequency works, I highly recommend you turn on the Frequency Guide by pressing "G" on the overview screen. See the help file if you do not know about this feature. [QUOTE]and needs only a couple moves to make that momentum disappear.[/QUOTE] Again, nothing magical. Every move has a set amount of momentum change. If it is a negative value, the opponent loses that amount. If it is a positive amount then the attacker gains that amount, and the opponent loses one point less (so a "+2" move gains two for the attacker, loses 1 for the victim). If the opponent has hit a big move on you, or is using wear-down \ submission moves, he can drop your momentum quickly. The important point is [U]that you can do the same to him[/U]. The AI and human use the exact same code, so there is no cheating involved, no favouritism. Next time it happens, watch what the computer is doing, figure out what his strategy was that managed to rob you of your momentum - and then be smart! If it's a good strategy, steal it and use it yourself, if it works on you, then it can be turned around and used right back on the computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyDavidson Posted July 5, 2006 Author Share Posted July 5, 2006 The flow of control is very simple. If you as the defender successfully use a Counter or a Counter Move you take control. There are three exceptions. A Rope Break counter does not give you control. An Escape counter does not give you control. A Block counter does not give you control UNLESS you hit two Blocks in a row. Yet I've used counter or counter moves on opponents only to have those opponents still be in control. There is no "magical" way to get an advantage. The only way he can take back control is if you miss a move, or he counters. Check the Frequency of the move you are attempting. Even if you have great momentum, a 15% move is still going to miss more often than it will hit. If you do not understand how frequency works, I highly recommend you turn on the Frequency Guide by pressing "G" on the overview screen. See the help file if you do not know about this feature. I haven't been missing the 15% moves. He takes control no matter what move I've been using. It makes no difference if it was something complex like mounted punch flurries or something as simple as a punch or a stomp. Nine times out of ten my opponent will do something to take over, thus preventing me from getting any sort of gain in momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panix04 Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 the opponents you were facing probably had very high Matt wrestling, chain wrestling skills. I believe these stats (and perhaps others) can effect a workers ability to block/counter. Incidentally don't feel bad i got my butt kicked in 2 minuted flat yesterday! I thought i had the game cracked after being 3-0 and i just lost 2 matches in a row! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyDavidson Posted July 5, 2006 Author Share Posted July 5, 2006 [QUOTE=panix04]the opponents you were facing probably had very high Matt wrestling, chain wrestling skills. I believe these stats (and perhaps others) can effect a workers ability to block/counter. Incidentally don't feel bad i got my butt kicked in 2 minuted flat yesterday! I thought i had the game cracked after being 3-0 and i just lost 2 matches in a row![/QUOTE] I do not belive that the Landlord or Scheming Behemoth have high mat wrestling or chain wrestling skills, though admittedly I could be wrong. Stevie Stoat might have those skills but he's the only one I've faced so far. If it was just guys I knew had mad wrestling skills it wouldn't bother me, but it's happened in every single World Cup match that I've had. I did some checking on my opponents. Captain Hero and Stevie Stoat do in fact have decent Mat Wrestling and Chain Wrestling skills, so in those cases I probably got clobbered fair and square. However Scheming Behemoth and Landlord have no mat wrestling or chain wrestling skills, yet were outmaneuvering me as easily as Stoat and Captain Hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ryland Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 [QUOTE]Yet I've used counter or counter moves on opponents only to have those opponents still be in control. [/QUOTE] I would seriously doubt that this is the case, simply on the grounds that there have been thousands and thousands of matches played at this point by all the people who have played the game, the chance of an error this fundamental only effecting one person is pretty slim. I suggest you first slow down and make sure that you are reading the pop-up windows correctly, as the most obvious explanation would be that you're misreading it and aren't actually hitting the counter move that you think you are. If you still experience this then I will need you to provide a sequence of screen shots showing me this happening. [QUOTE]I haven't been missing the 15% moves. He takes control no matter what move I've been using. It makes no difference if it was something complex like mounted punch flurries or something as simple as a punch or a stomp. Nine times out of ten my opponent will do something to take over, thus preventing me from getting any sort of gain in momentum.[/QUOTE] It's all about the frequency. You may just be being very unlucky with the moves you have chosen. You have my guarantee that nothing fishy is going on, there is no hidden code helping the computer, if you're missing things like Stomps then that's just luck. Using the Frequency Guide will at least show you what numbers you are working with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyDavidson Posted July 5, 2006 Author Share Posted July 5, 2006 [QUOTE=Adam Ryland]I would seriously doubt that this is the case, simply on the grounds that there have been thousands and thousands of matches played at this point by all the people who have played the game, the chance of an error this fundamental only effecting one person is pretty slim. I suggest you first slow down and make sure that you are reading the pop-up windows correctly, as the most obvious explanation would be that you're misreading it and aren't actually hitting the counter move that you think you are. If you still experience this then I will need you to provide a sequence of screen shots showing me this happening. It's all about the frequency. You may just be being very unlucky with the moves you have chosen. You have my guarantee that nothing fishy is going on, there is no hidden code helping the computer, if you're missing things like Stomps then that's just luck. Using the Frequency Guide will at least show you what numbers you are working with.[/QUOTE] I dunno it just seems he's blowing a lot of high frequency moves with embarassing regularity. We're talking Mean Gene Okerlund trying to wrestle level of embarassment here. I mean ok, Stevie Stoat and Captain Hero have skills so maybe that explains why I got slaughtered by them but really I should've been doing well against brawlers like The Landlord and Schemeing Behemoth since I'm using Danny Patterson. Also, in the Behemoth match [and this is what really cheesed me off] Behemoth hit me with a chair right in front of the ref and didn't get disqualified. Yet the very next move the ref DQ's me for hitting Behemoth in the groin. To quote the dearly missed Hurricane: Wassupwitdat? Oh and I should point out that I do like the game. If I thought it sucked I wouldn't be getting nearly as worked up about it. ;) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladamire Dracos Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Were Landlord and Behemoth perhaps Bracing against a lot of those stand up attacks? That would explain why you lost control quickly after a move like punch, as they just take the hit and use their built up Momentum to ignore it and fire right back. It's also a fairly common counter by big guys in stand up fight situations I've noticed. You would've gotten a pop-up stating something to the effect of "{wrestler's name} took the blow, but ignored it and springs to the attack." If that's the case, you may want to keep that in mind and try to take those big guys to the mat and put the hurting on them there from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyDavidson Posted July 5, 2006 Author Share Posted July 5, 2006 [QUOTE=Vladamire Dracos]Were Landlord and Behemoth perhaps Bracing against a lot of those stand up attacks? That would explain why you lost control quickly after a move like punch, as they just take the hit and use their built up Momentum to ignore it and fire right back. It's also a fairly common counter by big guys in stand up fight situations I've noticed. You would've gotten a pop-up stating something to the effect of "{wrestler's name} took the blow, but ignored it and springs to the attack." If that's the case, you may want to keep that in mind and try to take those big guys to the mat and put the hurting on them there from now on.[/QUOTE] That happened once or twice, but wouldn't explain all of it. I actually suspect that World Cup and Professional League modes are slightly harder then Rookie to Legend and that's possibly why I'm having the problem, that's just a theory though. If that's the case, kudos to the person who set out to make it a challenge. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ryland Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 [QUOTE]I dunno it just seems he's blowing a lot of high frequency moves with embarassing regularity. We're talking Mean Gene Okerlund trying to wrestle level of embarassment here. I mean ok, Stevie Stoat and Captain Hero have skills so maybe that explains why I got slaughtered by them but really I should've been doing well against brawlers like The Landlord and Schemeing Behemoth since I'm using Danny Patterson.[/QUOTE] Honestly, just turn on the Frequency Guide as I advised you earlier. This will tell you PRECISELY what is going on in terms of percentages. Also play to your strengths. You mentioned using punches and stomps in particular - you're bigger and stronger than everyone else, but probably less mobile, using moves that have Avoid \ Move as a counter is playing to your weaknesses. Get in close and grapple them, that way you're forcing them to use Breaks and Blocks, which against your power is far less effective. [QUOTE]Also, in the Behemoth match [and this is what really cheesed me off] Behemoth hit me with a chair right in front of the ref and didn't get disqualified. Yet the very next move the ref DQ's me for hitting Behemoth in the groin. To quote the dearly missed Hurricane: Wassupwitdat?[/QUOTE] Read the help file on DQs and the levels of cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyDavidson Posted July 5, 2006 Author Share Posted July 5, 2006 Read the help file on DQs and the levels of cheating.[/QUOTE] Actually my confusion on this matter is simply this: isn't hitting somebody with a chair on a higher level of cheating then hitting them in the groin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ryland Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 [QUOTE=MightyDavidson]Actually my confusion on this matter is simply this: isn't hitting somebody with a chair on a higher level of cheating then hitting them in the groin?[/QUOTE] It doesn't need to be. I can't look them up as you haven't said exactly what each move was, but you seem to not be understanding the concept of the referee's tolerance. The chair move may well have been a higher level that whatever low blow you used, but that's irrelevant, what matters is how high is pushed the "cheating bar" for that character. You can only get DQed when that bar reaches it maximum limit; it could be that the chair move took the opponent to 99% but not quite over, whereas your weaker move - when added to the other illegal moves you tried - put you right at 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyDavidson Posted July 5, 2006 Author Share Posted July 5, 2006 Ahh ok that was probably it then. Really I'm just frusterated because I'm having difficulty making headway in the World Cup mode. Danny Patterson, Marat Khoklov, Taddiyuki Kikkawa, I've gotten my tail kicked as all of those. If I wasn't doing so well with my own characters I'd start to get melodramatic. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ryland Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 It might be worth picking a technician then. The three characters you quoted are all large powerhouses, maybe that doesn't suit your personal style. Try with Yoshimi Mushashibo instead, maybe his technique will allow you to win more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyDavidson Posted July 5, 2006 Author Share Posted July 5, 2006 [QUOTE=Adam Ryland]It might be worth picking a technician then. The three characters you quoted are all large powerhouses, maybe that doesn't suit your personal style. Try with Yoshimi Mushashibo instead, maybe his technique will allow you to win more.[/QUOTE] Well I have been doing well in Rookie to Legend with my character, Yoshi Takahama who is a former MMA-er turned pro wrestler. He's got a good streak going, a few bumps in the road notwithstanding. [B]CURSE YOU RYAN TURNER!! YOU TO DES DAVIDS!![/B] ;) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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