[RELEASE] Effganic: Genesis

[SpinningBackFist]

Hello again friends. It is 1974 in our second try at simming a bunch of years in Effganic: Genesis. This time we have no picture requirement so there should be no issue with their being too few workers. At least in theory. So let's take a look. 

We've got roughly as many promotions as last time. There are 37 active promotions. I'm gonna guess that's a bad sign. 

And it is! It seems we've got the same issue as last time. Checking in on our old friend Southern Pro Wrestling. They have 17 workers on their roster. 8 of those workers are active wrestlers. They haven't run a show in ten years (since 1964). They have a CEO and a Booker. They have hired at least one wrestler relatively recently (on a handshake deal). 



Looks like they had no problem running shows until they sorta just stopped. On July 10th, 1964, champion Soetsu Jumonji retired and vacated the title (as you see above). After that happened they fell to Insignificant size two weeks later. And then they essentially just started cancelling every event. They managed one more event after he left (the above 1964 event where Danny Bisping won the title) and then they just cancelled every event afterwards forever more. Bisping held the belt for four years until he was stripped but the never held another event. They had a roster at the time of plenty of workers (you can see in the news events people leaving). My guess is too many events overlapped on the same days as other orgs and since SPW fell to insignificant they just never got prioritized? I can't work out what happened. But they had a roster of workers, they suddenly started cancelling their shows due to not enough workers. Haven't run an event in a decade. They are 32nd of 37 despite not having a show in a decade. They have $4,000,000 in the bank. 

Here is Punjalibre


As you can see they cancelled a bunch of events in 1973 and basically ran no events from 1970-1973. They were founded in 1956. They are running events again in 1974. So they sort of resurrected. But they also had a similar issue. 

Several companies again are essentially zombies. Team Wrestling Association has 4 workers period. They haven't run an event since 1965. Same issue as before. There are currently only 6 Active Wrestlers in the universe that are completely unemployed. Curiously a few of them are long term workers with decent but not crazy pop. If I take over companies these 6 are hirable. So it doesn't seem they should have anything precluding them from finding work. 

There are a few hundred active wrestlers in the game. It still feels like too few for 37 companies. For every company to have 10 wrestlers there'd need to be even more. I do *not* have Auto Fix Imbalances on. I suppose this may help too. But that's definitely not the only answer here. Companies are again refusing to hire workers that are hirable. When I take over the company and attempt to hire them I'm not met with a bunch of negative responses from other workers. They will sign reasonable handshake agreements. Companies are just choosing not to do this. 

There are 151 active workers that can work in the US. There are 12 active companies that exist in the US. There are 301 active wrestlers, there are 37 active companies. The problem isn't exactly imbalance as much as it is just not enough people period. I also don't want to overstate this issue. I mean it definitely is one *but* there are hirable workers that are simply just not being hired. I'm sure more workers would fix the issue but it wouldn't fix the odd AI issue of just not electing to hire them or flat out cancelling cards altogether. 

Here's a hilarious one



Down Under Wrestling. Seems like it should be fine right? That's a big roster! Why are the cancelling every single card? Would you believe me if I told you *every single one* of those workers is a Manager? lmao

Roughly half, a little over, of the companies in the game are zombie companies again. Even without picture requirement the game kinda just quits around the 1960s. Same as last time. There *are* more workers than last time but still not enough for the number of companies. And the game doesn't produce enough workers (regardless of region balance) for them all to fill. If some of these companies who haven't run a show in over a decade would simply go bankrupt this would fix. 

Companies *do* go bankrupt. There are 37 bankrupt companies. And a few that are about to join them. Just some stay around forever and can't die. Almost by choice for some reason. The game doesn't generate enough workers. 

I can try this one more time with Auto Fix Imbalances ticked on, but I feel like we're gonna end up with the same result. Somewhere around the 1960s there begins to be not enough workers. The companies that go bankrupt, go bankrupt because they *are* running shows. They just don't make enough money. So they bleed dry. The companies that stay in business do so because they just stop running shows altogether. This only happens into the 1960s. For the first 40ish years things seem to manage to go okay. 

Edited September 11 by SpinningBackFist

[SpinningBackFist]

I have the game up. Happy to look at anything or show anything anyone wants to see. But it's pretty much the same result as the first time. 

Which I did expect since the first time there were still like 1,000+ free pictures remaining. 

[Sartagis]

Auto Fix Imbalances was needed for the game to create enough out of ring workers in previous iterations (at least last TEW). Could that be it? What is the referee count?

[SpinningBackFist]

11 minutes ago, Sartagis said:

Auto Fix Imbalances was needed for the game to create enough out of ring workers in previous iterations (at least last TEW). Could that be it? What is the referee count?

Well this is fascinating. 

There's only three referees in the entire game's history. Ever. And none of them have ever been active in Japan. Yet there are Japanese promotions running cards even currently. They simply have no referee I guess? There's a smattering of Play-by-Play guys and of course a million Color Commentators and Road Agents that were retired wrestlers. 

But there are three referees in the game ever. So I don't think that's actually preventing anything but it is something auto fix imbalances would be needed for. The game simply does not generate refs right now otherwise. 

But again, promotions have existed for 50 years without ever using refs, it seems, so I don't think that's the core of this particular issue. 

Edited September 11 by SpinningBackFist

[i effin rule]

Just now, SpinningBackFist said:

Well this is fascinating. 

There's only three referees in the entire game's history. Ever. And none of them have ever been active in Japan. Yet there are Japanese promotions running cards even currently. They simply have no referee I guess? There's a smattering of Play-by-Play guys and of course a million Color Commentators and Road Agents that were retired wrestlers. 

But there are three referees in the game ever. So I don't think that's actually preventing anything but it is something auto fix imbalances would be needed for. The game simply does not generate refs right now otherwise. 

If you don't mind, try to auto-populate a bunch of refs throughout the world and see if shows start popping up.

[SpinningBackFist]

Just now, i effin rule said:

If you don't mind, try to auto-populate a bunch of refs throughout the world and see if shows start popping up.

Un momento, por favor 

[SpinningBackFist]

Nope. Not the problem. I generated referees and play-by-play. Like 300 refs and 100 play-by-play. Coverage in all regions. 

It's just lack of wrestlers + overlapping schedules. It seems. 

The way I read the in game guide about imbalance seems to suggest it'll only gen wrestlers (with this feature) when there aren't any training facilities? There are definitely not enough training facilities to fill a game world right now. There are only 6 in the game world right now. They're spread around. 

It just seems like there aren't enough active wrestlers. If I gen a bunch of wrestlers companies will sign enough eventually. But the game doesn't seem to make them on their own. Perhaps auto-imbalance would fix that too to some degree, but definitely not clear to me how much since there seem to be some other underlying issues with what causes a company to stop signing workers/cancel cards. (again there are companies with enough workers to run cards they just stop running them sometimes). 

Companies ran shows for 40 years with no refs, it doesn't seem like that's the reason they stopped running them. 

[i effin rule]

Did a quick test. Simmed 6 years on two saves. One has the current training setup, and the other with no training at all. Both had regens on and auto-fix imbalances. The one with training had at least twice as many generated workers as leaving it to the game. On the surface, it seems like the better option is to have the dojos rather than let the game do it by itself.

I'm going to remove the end dates for the latter-stage facilities and sim for a while. I'll see if I run into the same issue. The other option is to just add more training facilities. I had hoped the game would generate some with retired workers, but that doesn't appear to be the case, or at least not regularly enough.

 

Oh, how I miss the days of the pre-TEW20 worker generation.

[SpinningBackFist]

9 hours ago, i effin rule said:

Did a quick test. Simmed 6 years on two saves. One has the current training setup, and the other with no training at all. Both had regens on and auto-fix imbalances. The one with training had at least twice as many generated workers as leaving it to the game. On the surface, it seems like the better option is to have the dojos rather than let the game do it by itself.

I'm going to remove the end dates for the latter-stage facilities and sim for a while. I'll see if I run into the same issue. The other option is to just add more training facilities. I had hoped the game would generate some with retired workers, but that doesn't appear to be the case, or at least not regularly enough.

 

Oh, how I miss the days of the pre-TEW20 worker generation.

The game definitely gens some new training facilities run by retired workers but it's definitely not near enough to fill the game world. 

I ran a similar test to you. I did 15 years. Six with auto-fix off. Six with auto-fix on. There were like 8 more wrestlers generated with auto-fix on than with off. 

If I add a bunch of training facilities, there's a bunch more generated workers. Because of issues with refs and commentators and such, people should always have auto fix imbalances on. But I do think the key will be to create a bunch of training facilities. 

This also makes sense. Because the starting schools close in the 1940s and 1950s when the people running the facilities die off. So it looks like for a brief period of time there simply are no schools. And with auto fix imbalances on or off, either way, not enough workers get generated without schools. So by the late 1960s and 1970s a few new schools open but there was like a decade+ with basically no workers generated. And so promotions just start cancelling events. 

That's the best I can deduce (there is still some sorta issue with companies not fixing their schedules but this would also be alleviated by just generating more workers). 

[i effin rule]

@SpinningBackFist 
 

How many workers are you seeing generated with training facilities on an average year, post-1925? I'm determining how many training facilities need to be added to each region. I want to make sure that it is generating enough, but not becoming too overpopulated.

[i effin rule]

If anyone else has run similar tests and has the data, please share as well.

[SpinningBackFist]

9 minutes ago, i effin rule said:

@SpinningBackFist 
 

How many workers are you seeing generated with training facilities on an average year, post-1925? I'm determining how many training facilities need to be added to each region. I want to make sure that it is generating enough, but not becoming too overpopulated.

Two-to-four per year for each training facility. But that's also because all of them have Facilities % of like 30% or less. If the facilities percentage was higher they'd produce more. A facilities % of 100% should lead to ~12 workers per year. Auto-Fix Imbalances tries to add a couple to areas with _no_ training facilities at a roughly similar clip. 

[i effin rule]

I think all of the generic training facilities are set to 100%, they've just closed by 1973. What were the numbers in the late 20s / early 30s?

[SpinningBackFist]

4 minutes ago, i effin rule said:

I think all of the generic training facilities are set to 100%, they've just closed by 1973. What were the numbers in the late 20s / early 30s?

A mix
. 

So that one is about 12 per year but it closes in 1924. 

Another that's 10-12 per year. 



But the Don Loomis Book Club did 0-2 per year and promptly closed in 1925. American Pro Wrestling Academy did 12 per year but closes in 1925 too. 

L'ecole de Lutte Loiselle always opens in like 1930 and does 2-3 per year till it closes in the 1950s. 

Edited September 12 by SpinningBackFist

[SpinningBackFist]

By the mid 1930s most of the starting training facilities have closed. 

By the 1950s all of them have closed. 

[Jaysounder]

I did a watcher sim today and made it to 1951. I'm seeing similar things as Spinning; there are currently only 3 referees in the entire world and only 4 schools/academies are open. They also do not seem to be generating the number of workers that they say they should be. One school says it should be generating 2 workers per year and has been open since 1939, but only 10 workers have graduated. Overall the news sections says that 1612 workers have entered the business since the game started.

[Thane of Fife]

I'm not seeing that. My game has only made it to 1946, but I've got 2258 new workers over the course of the game, 23 referees currently in the business, and five operating dojos that appear to be putting out the predicted numbers of workers each year. This is with Regeneration Enabled, Auto Fix Imbalances Enabled, and Picture Requirement Off.

I have noticed that some companies seem to be having a hard time with the broadcasters - for example, SPW made it up to Medium, then lost a ton of pop I think when they were trying to switch from using small, local broadcasters to a bigger one. And WGW opened right in 1945 and immediately cratered because there wasn't anything available to sustain their high pop.

[i effin rule]

Auto fix imbalances is a must for non wrestlers. I've added 2 new training facilities to each region, set to start in 1925.

I'll look into broadcasters and pop.

[i effin rule]

I made some changes to early-stage broadcaster pop and reduced some requirements. I also adjusted the starting pop for some of the companies.

I'm running a sim now to see how all the changes play out.

[i effin rule]

January 1st, 1934

2,765 workers. Imbalances on, picture restrictions off, regens on.

8 promotions still open.

2 promotions at Medium.

Companies seem to be running shows without much issue.

 

All in all, things seem to be running smoothly, but the game slows down real quick with all the new workers. I've attached the save if anyone wants to dig into more or continue from this point.

TEW9Save.mdb