T-Zone 2007

[Guest Ransik]

Well, I set up Spike as Medium, USA as Big (down from Huge) and CW down to Medium. So I'm gonna see how this works and go from there. But I still can't figure out what the issue is with WWE. I set all the gimmick rating and momentum with most TNA workers and that fixed the issue of their Prestige from going in the toilet... but it still sends WWE into the hole. Could be because of Stephanie and her booking but I dunno.

[forlan]

So basically the way i see it the main problem is not having a good enough roster to run three brands which is fair enough. This would also attribute to why they sign loads of people. Now i know nothing more than what you told me but surely if they sign more over people like they always seem to do and balance out to have the right balance in each part of the split then they shouldn't fall but they still do :s Thanks for the help anyways and i think your recommendations are most likely the best way to go

[raynefall007]

Honestly, it's a matter of accuracy. Why the WWE does so well financially and ratings-wise these days is simply due to either nostaglia (DVD sales, etc.) or the viewers tuning in with the hope that something worthwhile will happen again. Most viewers just watch it for the hope that it'll get better. And the DVD sales and stuff like that, the things that WWE's monopoly have granted it to be able to do, you can't exactly simulate it TEW07. Viewer loyalty isn't exactly something you can simulate, because it's something that one can't find a particular reason for. Everyone has their own reasons. Therefore, if this is made "close" to being correct, that is fine. Because by all rights and standards, WWE shouldn't still be doing as well as it does. Nor should TNA, with some of the crap their current product causes. So unless the AI engine can be tweaked somehow to take into account how a variety of personal tastes affect viewership, I dunno how you'll get the problems to stop. With an older mod or even the Cornellverse, you can see distinctions where it would be easy to figure out why someone would watch something over the other. However, trying to adapt today's product with the same simulation could be a serious task to undertake, just on the take that you're trying to simulate an odd situation with artificial intelligence vs. humans. Humans are so unpredictable, it's a wee bit difficult. Just my opinion. Anyways, keep up the good work forlan and crew. Kudos to Adam for helping with this and I look forward to how this mod works out.

[Guest Ransik]

You know... I'm starting to think the WWE is destined to fail over the next few decades. Today's WWE.com poll is who has the bigger "johnson" between Vince and Trump. :rolleyes:

[coldheat422]

CW is bigger than USA being that USA is a cable channel and CW is not, correct?

[HugeRockStar760]

The WWE is global. Just because it is perceived to not have a great product anymore, doesn't change the fact it is still above TNA and any other competition. If the WWE can have sellouts in places like Mexico, England, Germany, Japan, Indonesia, New Zealand, and Austrailia, it's a global promotion. Unless the term global in TEW refers to running shows regularly across the world. I think the results the testers are getting from the mod so far are accurate. The WWE really is stretched beyond its means. And I agree, modders in general put too many relationships. After awhile, no one will work with anyone because everyone has these intertwined factors going against them. Only the most important relationships need to be included. Just because you read a rumor on some third rated website like wrestlezone doesn't mean it needs to be included in the game. [quote]CW is bigger than USA being that USA is a cable channel and CW is not, correct?[/quote] Not every market has the CW. Just like not every market had UPN, so a lot of people couldn't watch Smackdown. It's not the same kind of network that CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC are. It's basically syndication.

[HugeRockStar760]

When you say the WWE signs a lot of wrestlers when the game begins, does that include their developmental wrestlers or just wrestlers from established promotions? It would seem more realistic to tweak the game to nudge the WWE to call up their developmental roster instead of going after TNA. Because the WWE hasn't signed that many TNA wrestlers. The only names I can recall offhand are Shannon Moore, Cassidy Riley, and Monty Brown).

[D16NJD16]

[QUOTE=raynefall007;189853]Honestly, it's a matter of accuracy. Why the WWE does so well financially and ratings-wise these days is simply due to either nostaglia (DVD sales, etc.) or the viewers tuning in with the hope that something worthwhile will happen again. Most viewers just watch it for the hope that it'll get better. And the DVD sales and stuff like that, the things that WWE's monopoly have granted it to be able to do, you can't exactly simulate it TEW07. Viewer loyalty isn't exactly something you can simulate, because it's something that one can't find a particular reason for. Everyone has their own reasons. Therefore, if this is made "close" to being correct, that is fine. Because by all rights and standards, WWE shouldn't still be doing as well as it does. Nor should TNA, with some of the crap their current product causes. So unless the AI engine can be tweaked somehow to take into account how a variety of personal tastes affect viewership, I dunno how you'll get the problems to stop. With an older mod or even the Cornellverse, you can see distinctions where it would be easy to figure out why someone would watch something over the other. However, trying to adapt today's product with the same simulation could be a serious task to undertake, just on the take that you're trying to simulate an odd situation with artificial intelligence vs. humans. Humans are so unpredictable, it's a wee bit difficult. Just my opinion. [B]Anyways, keep up the good work forlan and crew. Kudos to Adam for helping with this and I look forward to how this mod works out.[/B][/QUOTE] Yes.

[ACCBiggz]

[QUOTE=HugeRockStar760;189865] Not every market has the CW. Just like not every market had UPN, so a lot of people couldn't watch Smackdown. It's not the same kind of network that CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC are. It's basically syndication.[/QUOTE] It's still bigger. Now for the purpose of this mod/scenario, it doesn't matter persay and USA maybe deserves to be above it as well as other prominant cable stations (TNT, TBS, ESPN), but The CW is the next in line after NBC/CBS/ABC/FOX.

[D16NJD16]

I get Smackdown about 70% of the time here currently, and once baseball season rolls around, that will be more like 40%.

[HugeRockStar760]

[QUOTE=ACCBiggz;189881]It's still bigger. Now for the purpose of this mod/scenario, it doesn't matter persay and USA maybe deserves to be above it as well as other prominant cable stations (TNT, TBS, ESPN), but The CW is the next in line after NBC/CBS/ABC/FOX.[/QUOTE] The CW is not bigger than USA. Compare the distribution of The CW compared to the USA Network. Unless the numbers have changed since last I checked, The CW is not offered in as many homes as USA Network is.

[Deadman36g]

I dont think anyone in the state of Arkansas gets CW, except for maybe Little Rock

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=forlan;189852]So basically the way i see it the main problem is not having a good enough roster to run three brands which is fair enough. This would also attribute to why they sign loads of people. Now i know nothing more than what you told me but [B]surely if they sign more over people like they always seem to do and balance out to have the right balance in each part of the split then they shouldn't fall but they still do[/B] :s Thanks for the help anyways and i think your recommendations are most likely the best way to go[/QUOTE] Theoretically that's true, but in practise it won't work, at least not in your mod. The issue you have is that to fill the main event gaps, they promote people like Ken Kennedy, Johnny Nitro, etc. This presents two problems: A - They are not good enough to be main eventers, and so the quality of the main event level matches sinks. B - The midcard is left with a big void where they used to be, and so the WWE has no alternative but to promote guys like Crime Time and The Highlanders up to that level. Now the midcard quality also sinks. The end result is that you've stunk up almost the entire card because you're running a roster where nearly everybody is in the wrong position. Now the perfect solution would be for the WWE to sign a bunch of guys who truly belong in the main event. This would solve the problem because: A - The main event is now of the correct quality, so the shows improve. B - Kennedy, Nitro, etc, all get to go back to their true position, the midcard, where they can both learn to improve and prepare to eventually become main eventers, and also put on C+ \ B- level matches - matches that wouldn't be good enough for the main event, but are absolutely fine for the midcard. Therefore, everything is fixed. The problem you have is that there aren't many people the WWE could sign to make that change - not an issue with your data as such, it's simply what is true in reality. Realistically, if we discard the old, injured and retired (so Austin, Hogan, etc) and the guys who aren't likely to return (Brock, Angle, Rock etc) then you're pretty much left with Chris Jericho as the only guy they can bring in and put straight into the main event. Seeing they need about 10 or 11 new guys in the current state of the mod, they're extremely short. So to summarise, they can sign as many people as they like to fill the roster up, that's the easy part, but the issue they can't fix is the massive lack of true mega-stars. That's why I think dropping them a size or two will really help, as rather than being short by 10+ big names, they'll be short maybe 3 or 4 - a problem, but one that they can solve eventually by creating new stars. Your alternative would be to boost a few people's overness to artificially create new mega-stars, but then you're creating unrealistic data which is what you were keen to avoid in the first place.

[Guest Ransik]

I only get CW from 8pm to 5am... the rest of the time it's FOX, so I don't think it's very wide ranged.

[BGSU StrangeCupofTea]

Really, does anyone care at the end of the day which network is actually bigger? All i care about is that the mod works with the game, and is accurate enough so it is playable. Not everyone is going to agree, and hence why the game comes witrh a pre-made editor to make everyone happy. Let the mod creators do the work and shut up and be patient. Plain and simple.

[Guest Ransik]

But I am a mod worker. :P Nah seriously, the more I think about it the more I think CW isn't really all that big of a network considering in this state it shares it's time with FOX, and heck so far Smackdown has pre-empted half a dozen times already since the move. Right now I'm running a new test with the networks dimmed down a bit and so far I haven't seen one word of warning from any of the networks on WWE or TNA. I've just hit the first week of March so it's still up in the air. I'll know how it goes when I set the Auto Clicker when I go to work later on this afternoon. But so far the ratings are holding steady in TNA, but in the WWE they're dipping a bit so my guess is one of their shows will end up geting cancelled before too long.

[BGSU StrangeCupofTea]

[QUOTE=Ransik;189902]But I am a mod worker. :P Nah seriously, the more I think about it the more I think CW isn't really all that big of a network considering in this state it shares it's time with FOX, and heck so far Smackdown has pre-empted half a dozen times already since the move. Right now I'm running a new test with the networks dimmed down a bit and so far I haven't seen one word of warning from any of the networks on WWE or TNA. I've just hit the first week of March so it's still up in the air. I'll know how it goes when I set the Auto Clicker when I go to work later on this afternoon. But so far the ratings are holding steady in TNA, but in the WWE they're dipping a bit so my guess is one of their shows will end up geting cancelled before too long.[/QUOTE] This should happen anyways - as the product that is seen on ECW is not that good to begin with. ECW isn't going to be going on forever, and I think the dip portrays this issue well. And ECW should be the least popular brand, and once that is gone that should get some of the talent to balance out - at least that's what I believe the computer AI would attempt to do with the roster if one of the show folds. Unless I'm misunderstanding the AI in this game.

[forlan]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland;189899]Theoretically that's true, but in practise it won't work, at least not in your mod. The issue you have is that to fill the main event gaps, they promote people like Ken Kennedy, Johnny Nitro, etc. This presents two problems: A - They are not good enough to be main eventers, and so the quality of the main event level matches sinks. B - The midcard is left with a big void where they used to be, and so the WWE has no alternative but to promote guys like Crime Time and The Highlanders up to that level. Now the midcard quality also sinks. The end result is that you've stunk up almost the entire card because you're running a roster where nearly everybody is in the wrong position. Now the perfect solution would be for the WWE to sign a bunch of guys who truly belong in the main event. This would solve the problem because: A - The main event is now of the correct quality, so the shows improve. B - Kennedy, Nitro, etc, all get to go back to their true position, the midcard, where they can both learn to improve and prepare to eventually become main eventers, and also put on C+ \ B- level matches - matches that wouldn't be good enough for the main event, but are absolutely fine for the midcard. Therefore, everything is fixed. The problem you have is that there aren't many people the WWE could sign to make that change - not an issue with your data as such, it's simply what is true in reality. Realistically, if we discard the old, injured and retired (so Austin, Hogan, etc) and the guys who aren't likely to return (Brock, Angle, Rock etc) then you're pretty much left with Chris Jericho as the only guy they can bring in and put straight into the main event. Seeing they need about 10 or 11 new guys in the current state of the mod, they're extremely short. So to summarise, they can sign as many people as they like to fill the roster up, that's the easy part, but the issue they can't fix is the massive lack of true mega-stars. That's why I think dropping them a size or two will really help, as rather than being short by 10+ big names, they'll be short maybe 3 or 4 - a problem, but one that they can solve eventually by creating new stars. Your alternative would be to boost a few people's overness to artificially create new mega-stars, but then you're creating unrealistic data which is what you were keen to avoid in the first place.[/QUOTE] Thanks, i see where you are coming from now, so how much do you think it would be acceptable as far as reducing their overnesses and such?

[ACCBiggz]

[QUOTE=HugeRockStar760;189894]The CW is not bigger than USA. Compare the distribution of The CW compared to the USA Network. Unless the numbers have changed since last I checked, The CW is not offered in as many homes as USA Network is.[/QUOTE] CW is larger, plain and simple. It's network tv. It's not great network tv and not available everywhere, but especially with the merger it's always been larger. Anytime you check ratings for them they list 5 stations (CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX, CW). Just because you may not recieve CW or like USA's programming better, does not mean USA is larger. It's a cable station. In fact, often, usually Fridays for Smackdown and also at other times, The CW ties FOX for fourth in ratings. The CW soon will reach about 95% of the television audience, while cable and sateliette copmanies do not. In todays age they do in fact get a lot of viewers, but network tv and those who can not afford cable will dominate. The CW happens to be one of the lucky 5 stations that is available as a network station. For the purpose of the mod, it doesn't matter as I said.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=forlan;189906]Thanks, i see where you are coming from now, so how much do you think it would be acceptable as far as reducing their overnesses and such?[/QUOTE] It really depends on how far you want to go. I think a good case could have been made for them being International sized even if there weren't any roster issues, so I'd definitely recommend going at least that far. If that's acceptable then I can come up with a list of what you'd need to change to get them down to that size without putting them too close to Global or National (as you wouldn't want them to pop up or down a size straight away either).

[forlan]

I think International would be best since it still gives across their "Worldwide" impression somewhat but not worldwide force, on the other hand not National. Just at the same time, you mentioned the relationships file, any help on which to take out that won't effect the game. The problem on the indies is groups of 5 or 6 travelling together so they all have a friendship to one another and its hard to just define which of them should go.

[HugeRockStar760]

Compare the amount of homes that receive CW compared to USA Network. That's all I'm asking you to do. Then, you'll realize that regardless if CW is grouped with the traditional over the air networks, it doesn't make it a network that would be viable for most promotions. If you were running a promotion and you were offered a choice between running shows on the USA Network weekly or on The CW weekly, which would you choose?

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=forlan;189914]I think International would be best since it still gives across their "Worldwide" impression somewhat but not worldwide force, on the other hand not National. Just at the same time, you mentioned the relationships file, any help on which to take out that won't effect the game. The problem on the indies is groups of 5 or 6 travelling together so they all have a friendship to one another and its hard to just define which of them should go.[/QUOTE] OK, I'll come up with the overness levels tomorrow. With the relationships, remember that the wording was changed to Strong Friendship explicitly to stop people using it for every day friendships. It should only be used for lifelong friendships, the sort that are likely to endure post-wrestling; an example I would give would be Lance Storm and Chris Jericho, where they have been friends for ages, even when in different organisations. The example I happened to see quite early in the file was Edge and Benoit being listed as such - that's definitely one I'd cut. I'd also cut almost all the "independent worker travelling companions" stuff. I'd estimate about 20 - 25% of your file is made up of stuff that is basically "fluff", so I'm not joking when I say you should be aiming to get rid of 400+ of the listed relationships. Not only isn't it needed, it's the main source of slowdown in the game, so you'll be speeding everything up immensely without losing anything from the game.

[forlan]

Thanks for that, yeah i'll try and trim down the relationships file and eagerly await your overness decisions tomorrow. On a different note can people quit the tv size discussions as its already been sad it doesnt really matter for the game and stuff like that should go to the dog pound or something

[Rams]

[QUOTE=BGSU StrangeCupofTea;189904]This should happen anyways - as the product that is seen on ECW is not that good to begin with. ECW isn't going to be going on forever, and I think the dip portrays this issue well. And ECW should be the least popular brand, and once that is gone that should get some of the talent to balance out - at least that's what I believe the computer AI would attempt to do with the roster if one of the show folds. Unless I'm misunderstanding the AI in this game.[/QUOTE] As far as I know the game treats all the brands as equal and that's clearly not the case in real life. From an AI stand point it might be best to scrap the ECW brand entirely. Of course people like me who want to play as the WWE would want ECW included so perhaps Forlan should suggest eliminating the ECW brand when not playing as the WWE.