Genre skills vs. Performance

[Blackman]

But it's true performance is undoubtly important. But let's look at the various performance stats and see which contributes more to the match rating: - Basics: A no-brainer, this will probably affect the rating the most. - Psych: I find this very important, but is it not irrelevant if you script matches? Or is it? :P - Safety: I don't accord value to it, but maybe I should? - Consistence: This is, in my book, the skill that determines which of my workers gets to headline PPV's, since one screw-up in main event mode can f*ck up your whole event. So I degrade any B- workers to the opening matches, if I use them at all. - Selling: Like said before, does it only matter for the loser? I take it it will matter to any performer. Imprortant in my book. :) So only Safety I value not, the rest should be pretty damn tight if you're to get great ratings.

[praguepride]

Safety only matters with the aftermath. Low safe people have higher chances of causing injury, so if you REALLY want to micro-manage you should only match unsafe vs. tough people. So here's a question: Toughness vs. Resiliance...what's the difference? [B]Toughness: [/B]This is how genuinely tough a worker is. The tougher he is, the less he lets pain slow him down, and the better he would be in a real life fight. [B]Resiliance:[/B]This is a measure of how resistant to injury a worker is. The higher the value, the less likely he is to get injured. I have a feeling Toughness is more of a "required for gimmick", like the guy has the look of a badass biker who eats glass for breakfast while resiliance is the actual "i resist injury" stat Any thoughts?

[Rob4590]

I've taken resilience as "how quickly/slowly their fatigue will build up" as well as how injury prone they are (since the two tend to go hand in hand) And on the other questions - psychology - its still good to have, even if you are scripting the match. I've had scripted matches where the road agent notes complained about lack of psych / flow of the match etc. Similarly selling is always good to have as well, even for the winner - otherwise you get the note about lack of that as well. Consistency - guys with low consistency are the ones that you will tend to get the "X was off his game" note about (Brett and Bart Biggz anyone??), and that in my experience can majorly lower the match grade.

[praguepride]

I think each performance rating has a related "oh noes, crappy match" road agent remark. Basics = lack of flow (cuz they talk about these as transition moves etc.) Psych = bout dragged in the middle (cuz they don't know what to do to go from start to finish) Selling = never have gotten a low selling message, so i dunno Consistancy = X was off his game Safety = X got injured Now here's a crazy idea. I was thinking that a low-safety person should have an increased chance of injurying themselves as well, any thoughts if that's the case already or it should never be the case?

[Blackman]

[QUOTE=praguepride;210691] Selling = There was not enough selling being shown. [/QUOTE] I'm not sure about the injuring itself. Anybody who has an increased chance with low safety workers? I myself have been playing for months now with 5SSW and never get any injuries actually, longest one was Butler for 23 days or something and some 'working through' injuries, yes, but never anything grave. ok once I got Sensational Ogiware who was injured for a year, but that was after my biggest PPV of the year, where I accidently rented the wrong venue (300 people max :)) and had to do it over once or go out of business by a stupid mistake that a real life booker would never make (Vince: "Oops, I rented the nearby booty club instead of the Garden for WM23" => bloody unliky). Call it a lucky mistake (damn right), but I'm fading from the topic. :)

[praguepride]

This reminds me of the motivator/hygeine factors of motivation: Motivators if present, is positive, but does not cause a huge negative if lacking. Hygiene, if present, does not cause postives, but if missing cause huge negatives. ex. Opportunity for advancement is a motivator, basic work saftey is a hygiene It seems like maybe something similar is working in TEW. The in-ring skills (mat work, aerial etc.) are the positives that bring up the match. The hygiene's would be basics, psychology etc. where if they're lacking they really drag the match down. Not sure about the accuracy of it, just an idea that came to mind

[Blackman]

yep, it's prolly something like that. I'm sure if you create a 'diseased' worker (A mat work, but E performance) he'd give E matches.

[Gigas]

If you run a Dare Devil fed, the performances hardly matter at all. They just want to see the Aerial attacks. I think its largely depends on what kind of fed you are running, anything with traditional needs the basics.

[praguepride]

Bah, I'm tired of hearing "it depends on the product" Don't get me wrong, I know how much a huge impact product has, but I want tests, I want information! People are quick to point out that it relies on the product, but then when I ask people to explain product the forums get rather quiet. So, which product's focus on performance and which ones focus on skills? Some of them are easy: Hardcore = Hardcore & Toughness (I looked for similarities between WEXXV & MOSC) Daredevil = Flashniess & Aerial Pure = Technical & Basics What about the rest? Luchadore = ???? (my guess is aerial, flasiness, and basics) Cult = ???? Mainstream = ???? Traditional = ???? It seems like anyone smaller then middleweight doesn't fit in. Also it seems like in-ring skills takes a HUGE back seat to performance skills. Check out Whistler, Black Hat Bailey and the rest of NYCW Realism = ???? Hyper-Realistic = ???? (although I imagine MMA plays into it, also high stats for Inspire stars are Power, Intensity and Stiffness) Comedy = ???? Risque = ???? Modern = ???? The more I play a modern Fed I'm thinking athleticism & intensity are big, becuase they always dump on Kinuye, but there is no single stat that drops her below the rest of my staff. Also size as anyone larger then a heavyweight is dumped on by the crowd. Help me fill in these gaps. It's always nice to know what to look for when hiring new workers. I'm really curious about Adam's logic behind all the styles.

[Gigas]

Luchadore is basically all around. Aerial/Technical and the basics. I dont think they do much brawling though. Modern is High Flying and a little of the Performance skills Risque, Cult, Comedy and Mainstream is purely entertainment and the gimmicks you choose. Realism is Technical/Physical/Performance Traditional is heavily based on Performance/Technical skills.

[praguepride]

I've been trying to base the style requirements based upon a common theme between the workers hired by feds that are a singular style. I'm assuming that the ficticious bookers know what they're getting into and hired workers that their style would like. Take traditional. NYCW is purely a traditional fed, but their workers have very poor in-ring skills all around. I thought it'd be technical too, but there's an equal number of brawlers too. THe biggest stars have huge basics/psychology/selling stats, but in-ring skills like tech ability has little bearing. The lucha feds have workers that are aerial based, technical based, or both. But the common theme is that they all have really solid basics and flashiness. Modern is the stumper. Some workers have high aerial/flashiness, others have strong technical, but they're really all over the place. From what I can tell having good athleticism helps a ton for creating a faster, more exciting match, but I just don't know. And about the comedy/risque/mainstream/cult styles, examples would be great. Risque is obvious, high risk, high t&a. But what about comedy? What gimmicks/angles are good for a comedy fed? What if I wanted to start a Clown Wrestling College? What should I do!?

[Rob4590]

[QUOTE=praguepride;211326]And about the comedy/risque/mainstream/cult styles, examples would be great. Risque is obvious, high risk, high t&a. But what about comedy? What gimmicks/angles are good for a comedy fed? What if I wanted to start a Clown Wrestling College? What should I do!?[/QUOTE] For a promotion with high comedy - the gimmicks that would fit would be................... COMEDY ones :p (there's a complete category of gimmick for you) Similarly - in a fed with high realism, comedy gimmicks would probably suck while realistic gimmicks would work well (or no gimmick at all - see PGHW) However I do think you're trying to look too deep into this - in another thread a while back, Adam stated that any worker could get over and do well in ANY fed, no matter the style of the fed or the worker - it was just gonna be harder for example, for a technical worker to do well in a hardcore fed, or using my above example, Whippy the Clown to do well in PGHW.

[praguepride]

I guess I'm more curious about who dumps on who? Why does the crow bash Kinuye but not other sucky workers I use?

[Rob4590]

[QUOTE=praguepride;211446]I guess I'm more curious about who dumps on who? Why does the crow bash Kinuye but not other sucky workers I use?[/QUOTE] Again if I remember rightly, Adam said that was to do with (low) star quality, and also the hidden "destiny" stat that is generated at the beginning of each game (and is related to the star quality). Its not specifically related to the type (style) of worker etc.

[praguepride]

See, I don't think it's destiny or star quality. The people who get dumped on in my fed ALWAYS get dumped on. Danny Patterson, Muderous Mikey, Kinuye Musahshibo. If I use any of them, they tell me the crowd hates them. And Kinuye has decently high star quality too. I think it's a combination of in-ring/performance skills. I just don't konw the correct combo.

[Gigas]

[QUOTE=praguepride;211523]See, I don't think it's destiny or star quality. The people who get dumped on in my fed ALWAYS get dumped on. Danny Patterson, Muderous Mikey, Kinuye Musahshibo. If I use any of them, they tell me the crowd hates them. And Kinuye has decently high star quality too. I think it's a combination of in-ring/performance skills. I just don't konw the correct combo.[/QUOTE] Ive had fans dump on a worker before, but with time you can get the fans to stop booing the worker. Davey London and Luke Cool always get booed on 21CW, but if you use Luke Cool enough, they eventually leave him alone. Ive never used the Davey boys enough to care about them, usually just release them.

[praguepride]

Just an addendum. High realism seems to rely more on the in-ring skills then on performance skills.

[Bye1918]

When you use DAVE, Hector Gallindo is always dumped on. So I don't think this one is controlled by the destiny stat, I think it may be coded in for some workers.

[praguepride]

I'm sure the dumpage is based on actual stats and not so much the destiny stat. Like you said, the same people get dumped on. The sizes are easy to understand (don't book lumbering giants in a fast modern fed) but again my example: Kinuye...why do they always dump on her!