PeterHilton

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="thommohawk" data-cite="thommohawk" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Okay I would like to get a show of hands on this, going back to my original points, just to see what the majority feel on this one....and to see if I'm the only one that sees it this way - overzealous hating of TNA product and it not as bad as it's made out to be ? Mr Anderson evoking stylistically of The Rock slightly in a good way ? Kurt Angle being decent-good on mic but not great like the HBK's, Rock's and Jericho's of this world ? To me all of this is obvious based on my open minded observations of the wrestling I've watched, obviously my stating this is an opinion in itself but just wonder if everyone else sees this ? Or if lazorbeak and the other guy are correct in their opinion or statement in that it is just me ? <p> </p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> --TNA...whether or not it's fair is a matter of perspective. I think they shoot themselves in the foot more often than not. I also think net fans in general are fairly negative. </p><p> </p><p> If you're referring to that first conversation specifically, go back and read it. It was your reaction and the way you put your opinion as fact that caused people to criticize. </p><p> </p><p> But the whole 'TNA gets hamered unfairly' can be true at time.</p><p> </p><p> --Anderson/Rock comparisons are valid. </p><p> </p><p> --you keep changing the way you state that so it's hard to really comment but : I don't think Angle is one of the best promos ever, but I think he's better than what you gave him credit for.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>PETE... HILTON... [heavy breathing]<p> </p><p> WHEN I LOOK UPON THE SPIRITS AND HEAR THE VOICES CALL OUT TO ME, YOU WILL KNOW THAT YOUR END IS NEAR! [turns back to camera]</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />:D:D</p><p> </p><p> always the jokester</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="thommohawk" data-cite="thommohawk" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Because let's face it I'm not tolerated here because you guys are elitist pricks. End of story.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If you honestly want to post here without being harassed then you need to stop posting as if your opinion is the only one that matters, or at leat express it differently</p><p> </p><p> I like talking wrestling on these boards specifically because we have less people who do that to each other. You're acting like this is 411mania.com and you don't have to. No one was rude to you. No one discounted your opinion. </p><p> </p><p> I disagree with you. That's it. That doesn't mean I think you're a bad poster or not worth talking to or whatever. But the way you react kinda does.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Fantabulous" data-cite="Fantabulous" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>We seem to have long established that thommohawk gimmicks it up for yucks or whatever so why not just ignore him completely?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> slow day at the office??? <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="thommohawk" data-cite="thommohawk" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Also, you say I act like my opinion is the only one that counts ? Do you not do that when you feel you're 100% correct and someone else tries to counter that with something you feel is honestly 100% crap ? If I'm the only one then I'll hold my hands up and claim imperfection....</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Maybe. But I try not to state it as if the other guys is a complete a-hole for disagreeing with me. </p><p> </p><p> "why am I even bothering stating my point of view or even arguing my case as reality proves on a weekly basis that I'm correct. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it."</p><p> </p><p> Why are you cutting a promo???? Why? You have an opinion and it's worth being discussed. Fantabulous even gave some merit to your opinion. BUt as soon as I said I didn't agree with the way you stated it or that I didn't think he was worse than Triple H we get to hear that. </p><p> </p><p> C'mon....it's an opinion based discussion about wrestling.</p><p> </p><p> Calm down.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="thommohawk" data-cite="thommohawk" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> I don't know why I'm even bothering stating my point of view or even arguing my case as reality proves on a weekly basis that I'm correct. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Instead you clutch to any straw you can to discredit a true statement simply because you dislike the person that said it. LOL. That's just sad....</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Nice. Another epic 'promo' by thommohawk. <img alt=":rolleyes:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> I like how you never bothered addressing the 'straw' that lazorbeak brought up.</p><p> </p><p> You have every right to your opinion, but whenever anyone challenges it, this BS starts where you just lose your sh*t and turn it into a flame war. </p><p> </p><p> You don't think Kurt Angle s that great as a promo. Fine. But just because YOU think so doesn't make it a fact. Get over yourself.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="thommohawk" data-cite="thommohawk" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Dude I'm not even up to 30 posts in 4 years how the hell am I disliked so already lol. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Posts in the Dog Pound don't count. So your number is probably MUCH higher. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yet I'm often around when it happens. Tight communities. Politics. Straight talking opinion (me). Do the math. Go figure. That's why I'm disliked here....and that's why a lot of you people disagree with me, not because you think I'm wrong, which I'm obviously not, but because you don't like me for whatever reason. In which case....you people are not a very tolerant bunch. I mean my god I'm not even up to 30 posts yet and you pre judge me as if you've know me. All based on opinion and the things I've said in the past which by the way for the record you had coming because I don't go looking to start crap.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> THIS is why people don't like you. You speak as if your opinion is the only one that counts and you never admit when you're 'wrong' even if what you say is factually untrue.</p>

Semantics. 'Not that great' to most people means 'average' or just above average. To me, that's not Kurt. That is - however - AJ Styles.

I'd say Angle is better than Orton and Trips (I can't honestly remember the last time I enjoyed or even remembered a Triple H promo) and is as good as Edge. Agree to disagree, but I think you'd have hard time finding a majority of people who would say Orton and/or Triple H are definitively better than Kurt Angle.

Meh. All you're really saying is that Kurt Angle isn't as great as the top 1% of the workers in the history of the industry. Fine. If you don't think he's at those historic upper levels, that's totally fair. But he's better than a vast majority of the people working today. He has been for just about his entire career. And to me, that makes him 'great.' It's like you're saying that a guy has to be one of the top promo guys EVER to be considered great, and I don't think that's true.

No sure how active you've been in this thread in the past, but thommohawk is not exactly the most reasonable or rational guy to debate with. Good luck with this.

I don't think you know what the word 'fact' means. I never said Angle was as good as The Rock. But he's much MUCH better than AJ. And obviously that's not just my opinion.Even Fantabulous said he was better than you gave him credit for. If you don't think so, that's fine...but it's not a FACT. It's your OPINION.

Thanks, I clearly feel the same way. But I don't think Fantabulous is saying anything unreasonable. He's said that Kurt is entertaining and has good delivery. My only complaint way back when was in the statement that he's 'not that great' which - to me - signifies someone who is totally average and unremarkable on the mic AND that he's comparable to AJ. Like you said...AJ isn't even close.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Fantabulous" data-cite="Fantabulous" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> But they've never made me interested in the match he's trying to put over or the feud he's pushing. Which is the point of a promo.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'd say that's your personal preference though. The promos he cut on Lesnar leading up to and following WM...his work putting over Cena where he was by FAR the biger star at the time...everything leading up to his match with HBK at WM..even the stuff surrounding Kennedy and that wacky medal in TNA...those would all be my examples of promos that helped drive the feud and made me want to watch.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="juggaloninjalee" data-cite="juggaloninjalee" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I agree Angle is the best wrestler and one of the best promo men in TNA. He is far too old to be the face of TNA though. They need that person you can always look at and say that guy is TNA and TNA is that guy. To me it has always been AJ Styles. Not saying a new guy couldn't be in that position though.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I actually agree. When he first signed, Kurt could have and should have been THE guy alongside AJ. But that boat has sailed and TNA squandered their chance.</p>

<p>Based on the variety of character he's played, the fact that he's equally effective as a heel and a face, and the fact that he can do comedy just as well as he does a strictly serious character, I'd say Kurt is AT WORST a sold B/B+ on the mic.</p><p> </p><p> And that's mainly because his stuff in TNA brings him down when you compare him to the genius of his stuff in the E while working with/against Austin, The Rock, and HBK (Sexy Kurt???really?? no one remembers Sexy Kurt???)</p><p> </p><p> So saying he's 'not that great' is ridiculous and comparing him to AJ is way off base. He's head and shoulders above AJ Styles.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Fantabulous" data-cite="Fantabulous" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> Kurt Angle is like Roddy Piper in my view; they have great delivery and are very into what they say <strong>and it gets over great and people love it.</strong> But if you actually stop for five seconds and listen to the words they've said rather than how they say them, you realize they haven't actually said anything that amazing. </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I kind of thought that was the point of a promo.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="thommohawk" data-cite="thommohawk" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>AJ is like Angle, <strong>not that great on the mic </strong>but in the ring he's one of the best.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Of all the ridiculous things you've said, this is the MOST ridiculous</p>

Totally agree here too. This point came up because Cady said that a 'coat and a bat' reference would get lost on the fans who don't know Sting that well. And I agree. Which - going back to the initial disagrement - is why I think it will take more than some mysterious vignettes to get Sting over. IMO, along with those things you mentioned, he'd need to show up at the arena before WM to drive home that he's a BIG deal

Oh calm down. FYI any time I refer to fans on this forum (including myself) I refer to them as 'internet wrestling nerds' Because it's true. You/we are. If you know WAAAAAY more about wrestling than the average fan, if you visit more than one site to get news on wrestling, if you can have extended discussion about the wrestling industry and know insider terms like it's everyday vocabulary, and ESPECIALLY if you take the time to play a game which simulates managing and booking an imaginary wrestling promotion, then you're an internet wrestling nerd. Which is totaly ok. You just need to know that about yourself and understand that you know about and care waaaaay more than most of the viewing audience out there.

Boston is a smarky town and Nash has more of a history with the WWE. I'm not saying that none of the fans will pops for Sting or that no one knows him. I'm saying that it's foolish to assume Sting is a 'household' name when it comes to wrestling fans like a Hogan or a Rock where he's going to be instantly recognizable the second he steps foot into the arena. This for instance... ..is entirely true. How many of these 11 year old kids who got into wrestling by watching John Cena when they were 5 are going to really KNOW Sting?

Totally agree. I'm sure others could deliver a diatribe on this, but I think a lot of it comes down to the cookie cutter nature of the E's development system. They look for ONE type, try to make them work ONE style, and do everything they can to only promote from within. This mind-set means that they can guaranteee themselves more workers of a certain skill-set that have proven to be marketable and successful in the past, but it also drains the roster of any idiosyncratic originality. There's literally ZERO chance of someone like a Mick Foley or even a Jake Roberts becoming a star in the current system. Hell, Bryan Danielson and Mistico have proven themselves as successful headline material draws all over the globe, and I seriously doubt they'll succeed in the E. The WWE spent s much time trying to find a way to make their talent evaluation easy to predict, that they kinda forgot predictable' isn't always a good thing.

Wow. Calm down. Candyman has a very valid point. WWE fans are not internet wrestling fans. Big segments of their audience are WWE fans only, have barely a passing interest in any outside companies, and - based on their ratings - tend to be a little too young to remember Sting in his prime in WCW ( or WCW period, for that matter) You're making the common mistake of the internet wrestling nerd that ALL fans are also internet wrestling nerds. I'd say at least a third of the current WWE viewers will have - at best - a passing knowledge of Sting when he shows up.

Right..just like the 'SAVE_US" stuff..the specualation will play into the hype.

thanks for keeping up with the discussion