Candyman

Well said. There's no other group in the world who knows so little and thinks they know so much. Well, maybe sabermatricians and baseball... Bad comparison. Did they bat Willie Mays leadoff? Or when MJ made the all-star game in his last season under the same scenario, did he take the last shot? Willie Mays (or MJ or Jeter or any number of undeserved all-stars) being on the all-star team is analogous to Hulk Hogan being IN the match, in the SummerSlam main event, not winning it. But that's besides the point. Arguing over whether or not Hogan should've won is pointless. The bottom line is Hogan agreed to lose a rematch and backed out. That's why HBK did what he did, and that's why Hogan deserved it. To say it was unprofessional or that HBK was wrong in any way is laughable. He should be applauded for his actions, not criticized. Right, because that matters. Nevermind the fact that HBK did all of those things before his injury, and none of them after his return, which is when the Hogan incident took place...if you've ever done anything bad in your life, you have to accept it with a smile on your face if it happens to you. That's logical. If Hugo Chavez shot Fidel Castro, the world would still be a better place for it. It's funny, I was just about to ask if you were blinded by your hatred for Michaels or your love for Hogan. Or is it both?

Who is "they"? Some random internet news site? Everything I've read from WWE is that he's suspended for 30 days, not that he's done for good. And considering the push he was getting before the suspension and the contract he's signed, I would be stunned if they just cut him. There is a 0.0% chance of this happening. I'd be less surprised if Macho Man's corpse pins Bruno Sammartino to win the title. With Ultimate Warrior as the special guest referee. Yeah, I totally agree. Triple H and Vince both did a great job. It was the difference between it feeling phony and the crowd being happy Vince is "fired" (which is how it started) to feeling real and the actually feeling that Vince is gone for good. Obviously he's still the Chairman off screen, but it really felt like that was the last time we're going to see him on TV.

Not at all. The last time Raw was on July 4th, it dropped from a 4.4 to a 2.6. And that was a LIVE show, so no spoilers. The last time it was taped a week in advance like this week, it dropped from 3.4 to 2.7. So you combine those two factors, and dropping from 3.1 to 2.4 is actually pretty good.

Why are all these websites calling it a shoot? The term is a "worked shoot" - something that is planned to sound like a shoot. A shoot is unscripted, unplanned, kayfabe breaking. Clearly they wouldn't let CM Punk go off and say whatever he wants and let it air. And just so this doesn't turn into another Daniel Bryan "firing" situation where some people still insist it was legit even after the fact, let's make this clear right now. If CM Punk stays in the WWE, if he's on Raw and wrestles at MITB, there is a 0.0% chance that it was a shoot. If CM Punk (or any wrestler) did that without permission, his name would never be mentioned on air again. So we'll know beyond a shadow of a doubt whether he did this with or without permission very soon. I'm open to the possibility that, like somebody here said, he may have just been given an open mic and allowed to go wherever he wanted. Personally I doubt it, but 5 hours ago I never would've believed they'd let him give that promo under any circumstances. And like someone else said, this really makes me believe he re-signed with them, and maybe this storyline was a condition of his return. And if that's the case...I can't help but think he's going to win the title at MITB. In response to the spoilers... SPOILERS I COMPLETELY disagree with the notion that they "messed it up" by making the stipulation that if Punk wins, Cena is fired. And I even more strongly disagree that this means Cena will win. How many times have we seen guys get "fired" in a storyline before? Hell, we've seen it with Cena himself. And I don't know if you heard, but a couple weeks ago there were reports that Cena was working hurt...if that's true, this could be their way to write him off TV until he gets healthy. /SPOILERS It is kind of sucky timing for them, that they did this in the middle of a double taping. Could've really built up the anticipation for next week's Raw.

And using Twitter to take shots at HBK that haven't been accurate in a decade.

I think you're looking at it wrong. It's not about what the reaction would be if the title showed up in the other company, because that doesn't matter - it's never going to actually go there - it's about the reaction of threatening to take away the title from its respective promotion. ROH fans would be a lot more outraged than WWE fans if somebody took one of their titles. But if they did run this storyline with Punk now, they don't need to have anywhere for him to threaten to take the title. The threat just has to be him leaving the company with it. Having somewhere for him to go would just be icing on the cake.

Crazier things have happened. It wouldn't be the first time somebody was given a new character and took it all the way to the WWE title. Look at JBL, nobody would've thought Bradshaw was a future World champion when he was part of the APA. Not only was he a champion, he held it for 9 months and was quite effective as champion. It was also quite odd how, at the end of the show, the GM's e-mail to Austin talked about how Austin did in his absence, even though he had sent the e-mail to Randy Orton. The only thing I can think of is that Randy's concussion is legitimate and that segment had to be rewritten at the last second. Still doesn't explain how the GM can overturn a referee's decision, though. That was the greatest series of pics I've ever seen in my life. And I agree, if Cena sees them, he will definitely try to contact her and more than make it up to her. Eh, people don't want to see it because they've fought so much, not because the quality (or lack thereof) of the matches. Their I Quit and Iron Man matches, among others, are some of the WWE's best over the last 5 years. I lol'ed. It's funny because it's true.

So was Christina, and I'm sure everybody on the show was a candidate for a development deal and would have gotten deals if not for the show. You heard the crowd, Andy got by far the biggest reaction of all the contestants. (only one close was Jeremiah, and everybody saw how dangerously green he was) It really makes no sense for them to rig it...the best contestant on the show is going to be the most successful regardless of whether or not they win, so why not let the best win, so the winner is the most successful? It's like people who claim American Idol is rigged...it makes no sense. If I had to put money on whether or not each contestant would get signed to a development deal, Michael is the ONLY one I would bet on not getting signed eventually. I expect the other 13 to be in FCW, if they're not already, and it wouldn't really surprise me if Michael was too. They put them on the show because they saw something in them, and I don't think a couple weeks in the Tough Enough house would convince them they were wrong.

R Truth continues to impress me. It's amazing what a character change can do when they get it right. He's gone from a guy that I wouldn't have noticed if he was released to one of the highlights of Raw. Mixed feelings on Andy winning Tough Enough. It's kind of odd considering Luke was so much better every single week throughout the competition. But Andy certainly has potential, and had the crowd behind him, which I'm guessing is the biggest reason he won. It would've been harder for Austin to pick the heel. It's just a shame Martin got hurt, I think he easily would have won...him and Jeremiah have the most potential, IMO. And where was Rima? Bunch of thoughts on the end of Raw. First of all, just like Wrestlemania, how the F does the GM have the authority to overrule the referee? It makes no sense. I'm hoping they'll address that and give King and Cena/Riley their rightful wins eventually. And is it just me, or is it weird that the GM would name Austin (or anybody else) the special guest GM? And I couldn't stop laughing at Austin giving Riley beer...Riley even tried to avoid it by getting out of the ring before the beerfest started. Somebody probably should've given Austin the heads up about that beforehand.

See, that's the thing. In reality, 1) was never a choice at all. Remember, Vince has a Board of Directors and shareholders to answer to. Even if he wanted to buy out the big contracts, it never would have happened. I'm sure he offered them every penny he could to buy them out, and they said no. Remember, even when some guys took buyouts later(like Goldberg), it was AOL Time Warner paying not the WWF. (hence Goldberg doing a stint in Japan before he came to the WWF) That's all I was saying. If it could've been done, it would've been done. Vince wouldn't have passed on the chance to bring them in if he could.

IMO, if they could have been, they would have been. I can't imagine Vince willingly passing on those guys.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Rone Rivendale" data-cite="Rone Rivendale" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Would it be totally insensitive if I said it can't be pregnancy cuz no one would want to have sex with Kharma? <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /><p> </p><p> Yes, it probably would. So I won't say it. I will say though, if it IS the reason, it sure is bad timeing. She could have had a child first and then signed on with the WWE. Unless WWE are going to pay her while she is away, that would be genius.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Haha, insensitive, but I'm sure you wouldn't be the only one thinking it. And yeah, definitely awful timing, no matter what's keeping her away. (If the report is true.) She was getting a push that we've never seen from a woman, and only a few men(Yokozuna, Brock Lesnar).</p>

<p>Just saw this on Wrestling Observer, could explain a lot.</p><p> </p><p> "-- The Kharma deal last night was her blow-off for the time being. It is believed she'll be out for over nine months. "</p><p> </p><p> ...pregnancy?</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Tha Black Phenom" data-cite="Tha Black Phenom" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Am I the only one who's waiting for this Kharma business to develop instead of labeling it letdown? I'm thinking it's just teasing for a later date, where she'll go bonkers.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Sadly, you probably are the only one...people just never seem to learn to have patience and let things play out. I thought it was really weird, and I definitely didn't like it, but let's see where they're going.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Comradebot" data-cite="Comradebot" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Still GhostDogg, your "rundown of ruined indy stars" kinda sucks. Hard. I'm confident someone in less need of sleep than myself could do an opposite rundown of ex-indy stars that have had tremendous success in the WWE (which I'd personally include CM Punk on... and Sheamus, who appeared to be quite the star over across the pond) Fact is, a good chunk of the WWE/F's stars were, at one point, stars on the independent circuit. The only reason why a sizeable chunk weren't in the last couple decades is due to the existence of WCW. With two major companies vying for every potential talent out there in order to beat the other, few guys with talent were unlucky enough to end up unsigned by either for an extended period of time, and even more were snatched up into training long before they even made their in-ring debut. Never know when you just started training a guy who will eventually become your opponents top heel and future 13 world champion (bravo, WCW).<p> </p><p> </p><p> The WWE doesn't misuse former indy stars anymore than they misuse any of their other talent. Kane's spent his entire career with the WWE, and look how many times they've used him about as horribly as possible. I miss the Big Red Machine...</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Thank you. I was about to lose my mind when I saw that list. You dismantled it better than I could've. Except for Kaval, because you have to remember that he simply didn't like being in the WWE and asked for his release. We have no idea what the WWE was going to do with him.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Prophet" data-cite="Prophet" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Wasn't Colt a casualty of bad placement? Like something happened that he was part of, and it cost him his job, sort of thing?<p> </p><p> And I have to say, every time I think "I can't appreciate CM Punk any more than I do right now" he goes and does something even more awesome. The trunks were really a nice touch.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Of all the guys on that indy list, Colt is the one (and only one) that you could actually say the WWE misused or wasted. He was entertaining and he had a following...I didn't get it. Use him as a commentator or backstage interview guy, at least. And I agree, Punk's tribute to Savage were AWESOME.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="nucleardonkey" data-cite="nucleardonkey" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That would be true had Punk not made it a point to taunt Bret while doing his moves.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Agreed. It was part of the story of the match. They should've mentioned it.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Really enjoyed Tough Enough. Glad AJ shined at something before he got sent home. Big Andy crying was a bit weird though.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Andy's whole reaction was weird to me. I never would've expected him to be so passionate and angry.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Tha Black Phenom" data-cite="Tha Black Phenom" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><span>http://i52.tinypic.com/i69zd0.gif</span></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think I broke the rewind button on my remote watching that over and over and over again. One of my favorite parts, which isn't in that gif, is the referee's reaction...he's completely frozen, staring at the spot in the air that Randy jumped up to reach.</p><p> </p><p> It was just so weird. I'm not sure I like it.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Gabbo" data-cite="Gabbo" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Watched Jim Cornette rebooking the InVasion. Brilliant.<p> </p><p> Never really liked Cornette, but maybe that was based more on his onscreen persona, particularly in the WWE in the 90's but he came across really well. He came across passionate, knowledgeable and fair. People say he rants and whatnot, but it all came across fairly. Not to mention honest, he says how he feels and doesn't care about friendships and relationships: people know Cornette and they either love or hate him but he is how he is.</p><p> </p><p> The show was rather heavy on shoots, but I guess it had to be the way he booked it. Very interesting show though and a definite improvement on what we saw. Obviously you can't factor in things like injuries, personal squabbles and whatnot causing changes to plans but he tried to keep it realistic and ended up with a solid 'Mania. There were too many matches on it though, so maybe we should have been given a run down of the feuds and then a Mania card separate. I know he wanted a 5 hour show to demonstrate the significance of this event but very few people will sit through 5 hours of something.</p><p> </p><p> All in all, really enjoyable and I'll check out more in future. Interested in seeing Raven book Hall and Nash but I'm not sure why they bothered with it. WCW booked the angle brilliantly enough. For a while at least.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I was certainly entertained by it, and I was fascinated by the insight Cornette provided into what it's like on the "inside" of pro wrestling - especially the stuff about what WWE's relationship with OVW is like. It was very entertaining and informative.</p><p> </p><p> But, honestly, when you actually look at his booking, and imagine what it would be like on TV...to be honest, it's not very good at all. Shoot fights? Really? That stuff might've worked in the 70's, and I'm sure it would be huge with a fringe minority of WWE fans, but I can't imagine it being much more than a gigantic flop. I think Cornette kind of realized this as he was going along, because he kept talking about how he didn't have much time to put it together. I have no doubt Cornette would've done better than what we actually got, but I think he'd have to throw this one in the trash and start from scratch. I definitely enjoyed the DVD as a whole, though.</p><p> </p><p> Unrelated note - what's the over/under on how many people complain about them not mentioning Macho Man's death on Smackdown! tonight? I've already seen two on another message board. Clearly not the sharpest lot.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Shape" data-cite="The Shape" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Turn into it? Last year was the first one. So it seems that is what this has as the gimmick, fits the name anyway.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I agree, it's more than a little odd to complain about repetitive booking on something that's happened <em>twice</em>. Kind of like all the people who act like the Royal Rumble always has and always will be won by a returning superstar just because it happened twice in a couple years.</p><p> </p><p> I digress. The "I Quit" match is clearly becoming John Cena's signature match because of his "I will not quit" mentality. It's his answer to Undertaker's Casket match and Triple H's Hell in a Cell. I guess if you considered those uninventive booking, this is too.</p>

So who IS the best coach of all time in your book? I'm geniunely curious. Especially since you're a Celtic fan and I KNOW you're not going to say Red Auerbach is the best. I know he is overrated in your book as well. After all, he's the only coach in NBA history who had MORE talent than Phil. And Red's teams did something Phil's never did - they kept winning! Red retired, and they immediately won two more championships! That's more than all those Hall of Famers Phil coached won without him COMBINED. Lazorbeak said everything else I could say, and probably better than I would've said it. The anti Phil arguments just don't hold any water.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I've heard that WWE actually does their storylines far in advance (probably knows the next six PPV's already, or at least 90% of). So when someone all the sudden is gone, or something happens differently, they have to think on their feet, and try to get back into the same "program" as before, so as to not screw up other storylines that intersync with them, etc. At least that's my thinking.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Exactly. I always laugh when people complain about the WWE booking week to week, when it's quite clear that that's not the case. You can see the long term vision they have when you look back on things. There is SO much foreshadowing in their writing, if you actually look for it. But nobody wants to do that. They want to look at last week's show and complain about how stupid it was and convince themselves they could do better because it makes them feel better.</p><p> </p><p> And you're right about how they struggle when they have to change things on the fly. Rather than change every plan for every wrestler on the roster, they try to fix things with as little collateral damage as possible. It's not an easy thing to do, and it's rarely going to be seamless. And, unfortunately, they do miss opportunities sometimes(like you mentioned with Hardcore Holly and Joey Mercury). But they have to make an on the fly decision about whether or not Hardcore Holly's really a long term viable headliner or if it's temporary. And, if it's temporary, is it really worth rewriting everything to give him a few weeks in the spotlight? (IMO, they made the wrong choice both with Holly and Mercury, but I can understand why they did what they did.)</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="eayragt" data-cite="eayragt" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think we need to give WWE the chance on this one after watching Smackdown.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Exactly. This is what I tried to say as soon as I heard about the title change. Of course, nobody wants to listen to reason, but it's stupid to criticize a move when you don't understand why they did it - it's even more stupid when you don't even know the full facts of what they did. (nobody knew about how they were going to focus on Christian's dream being shattered) It's just stupid. There's no other way to put it. Let's be honest here, the WWE gets it right much more often than they get it wrong. They've earned the benefit of the doubt. </p><p> </p><p> JR had a great take on the situation in his blog: "Christian and Randy Orton had a great, TV match on Smackdown but I don't buy into the 'tragedy' that some fans flooded us with here on our site due to Christian losing the World Title. It isn't as if the loss ended Christian's career and who's to say that 'Captain Charisma' won't regain the title at a later date? <strong>Those that truly understand the nature of the genre have a different mindset than those who are knee jerking themselves silly.</strong>"</p>

<p>Pretty much what OctoberRaven is saying, word for word.</p><p> </p><p> Is it the most logical decision they've ever made? No. But there's not much logic in questioning decisions as they're playing out, either. Go back and criticize stuff they did 3 years ago all you want, if it didn't work.</p><p> </p><p> But I've accepted the fact that some people simply refuse to acknowledge that the WWE is capable of doing anything that's not completely wrong, so I won't go any further.</p><p> </p><p> Thanks for the spoilers, though. Finally brings an end to my streak of about 2 years worth of Smackdown's that I didn't know what was going to happen before I watched.</p>

Matt Cross was too stunned by his elimination for him to be a plant. He's not that good of an actor. I got the sense that Austin didn't plan on letting him go but got so worked up while the bottom 3 were in the ring he did it out of emotion...the "permission to speak?" line was what did Cross in and saved Skidmarks, IMO. It's really bothering me how they're making Luke seem so perfect though...well, up until he got booted from the skills competition last night. There's no way he was a pre-determined winner, but they already knew who won before they started airing the show so they can decide how good everybody looks.

Let me guess, you're a cop? Maybe a firefighter? Something that involves little to no human interaction, something that lets you easily hide your feelings because you can't stand to feel "soft" for caring about other people. Some kind of meathead job that's all muscle and no brain work, I'm sure of it... ...ah, military. I should've known. Trust me, your family might have a problem with where you go because of the dangers involved(if you die, they stop getting checks), but they do not have a problem with you being gone for 7 months straight. Less opportunities for you to beat them, after all, and that's 7 months straight where they don't have to put up with you. They're secretly counting down the days until the next 7 months starts, I have no doubt. (I apologize to all police officers, firefighters, and military personnel - with the exception of the person above - for comparing you to him. I do realize not all of you are so competely devoid of emotion[positive emotion, clearly anger is something this person has in spades], compassion, and human decency.) Seriously though, way to prove what a tough manly man you are. You sure can judge people by watching an hour of their life on TV and then freely rain insults and cast stones on how they've lived their life. We're all very impressed. Idiot.

I didn't get a chance to see the show live (still haven't watched the whole thing yet), but I was bombarded with texts when Edge retired...wow. I knew he was going to retire soon, but I didn't expect to it be THIS soon! I have no problem whatsoever with the "breaking kayfabe" because, like somebody else said, that shows the seriousness of the situation. It's very rare that they break kayfabe for works. (like when the stage collapsed on Vince and he kept saying "Paul" to Triple H) It's also pretty cool that they let Edge win at Wrestlemania even though they knew there was a good chance this was going to happen. (Apparently they were considering a heel turn for Christian but decided not to because of the questions about Edge's health) Not many guys get to go out with a win like that.

Good god no. The notion that there's even the possibility of Taker losing his streak without getting pinned or submitting makes me sick to my stomach. It must be a one on one match. Period, end of discussion. This is correct. Austin himself just did an interview where he didn't just say he could work a few more matches, he said he could work for "two years on a full-time basis." He said he's not returning because he wants his body to still be in good shape in 10 or 20 years, not because it's not in good shape now. http://xfinitytv.comcast.net/blogs/2011/tv-news/wwes-stone-cold-steve-austin-on-tough-enough-wrestlemania/ EDIT: He also thoroughly praises CM Punk, and even mentions how great a Punk/Austin fued would be...IF Austin comes back for a match or two, I'm guessing it'll be with Punk. That would be awesome. So true. I think a lot of people don't realize that Sting hasn't been in a major wrestling promotion in 10 years now, and he was NEVER in the WWE. Sure, a lot of people will know who he is, but a lot of people won't, too. You're going to need a serious buildup to make that match the level of Taker-HBK, Taker-HHH, or even Taker-Edge/Batista. You know, just because it wasn't an April Fool's joke, that doesn't mean you were wrong. I have no doubt that they offered him a spot in the Hall of Fame and I bet they would've loved to have him on as a Tough Enough trainer. A Wrestlemania match with Undertaker? Not buying it for a second. As for who Undertaker faces next year, I don't think it's a guarantee that he wrestles again. But if he does, I can't imagine it'll be anybody but Triple H. And speaking of Triple H, reports are that that rumored overhaul of development that Triple H was pushing for is officially underway, and Triple H is now in charge of the developmental department. In fact, he had signed his first talent...who? Sin Cara. Not a bad start.

I think a lot of people don't realize this, but there's actually a reason the WWE has made all these changes to disassociate themselves from wrestling. And it's not just Vince doesn't want to be a wrestling promoter or anything like that. The reason is the WWE doesn't want to be considered a sport. There are a lot of rules and regulations that apply to sports that don't apply to entertainment companies. It all started when the WWE was having issues with the Georgia Boxing Commission a couple years ago(shortly after the Benoit incident). The WWE realized they wouldn't have to deal with boxing commissions if they weren't a sport. That's why they call their workers Superstars and Divas and not wrestlers. That's why they don't call their championships "belts" anymore. That's why they dropped the word Sports from Sports Entertainment. It makes their lives easier.